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RE: Ok it's time to go

 
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RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 4:44:42 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike


yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.




CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.


Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5031816


I see that the link is to a repost of a picture that an individual posted previously. Why don't you find the original post of that picture, see who posted it, and what context. As you can see from my post, no one objected then. So why didn't you object then? You can also see that the person is posing for said picture so it was not done without her knowledge.


What were the motivations behind you posting such a photo and accompanying commentary?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 31
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 4:58:44 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2358
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline
I have always tried to carefully word my posts. Erasing nearly half of what I write because I do not want to be taken the wrong way. Easy to do when the reader does not get any of the subtle non-vocal communication that is used in face to face communication. I really shouldn't though. I just don't matter that much.

I am 58 years old. I have seen the pendulum swing so many times in so many different thoughts, endeavors, trends, etc, that I have come to the conclusion that it is a natural part of the human condition. I have seen the same company that started more like a family, turn into nasty bean-counting hell and swing back....more than once.

I have been gone from the forum for a while. Just started to come back recently. The change is stark. Gone are quite a few of the old timers that I enjoyed reading. Alfred's wit was sometimes acidic and his patience would wear thin, but one could learn a vast amount of this game by reading his posts. CR gone? I used to think of this forum as a family.

Does the Green Button still work? If you don't like a poster, use the Green Button and ignore them. I could be wrong, probably am. But after a year long {I think} layoff, I get the impression that some people are complaining and trying to get other people banned.

If someone does not like my posts, well, I really don't care.

I love this game, but next to everything else in life, it's not that important.

In a couple weeks or months, I'll find another game that I want to play for a while. I'll be back, I always come back. Hopefully the pendulum will have swung back to being more like a family.

Gotta go. The dogs want to go outside.

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 32
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 5:36:15 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline
Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon

< Message edited by Edmon -- 1/14/2022 5:42:27 PM >

(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 33
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 5:38:53 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike


yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.




CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.


Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5031816


I see that the link is to a repost of a picture that an individual posted previously. Why don't you find the original post of that picture, see who posted it, and what context. As you can see from my post, no one objected then. So why didn't you object then? You can also see that the person is posing for said picture so it was not done without her knowledge.


What were the motivations behind you posting such a photo and accompanying commentary?


If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 34
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 5:55:10 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2613
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach


Your actions say otherwise. You shut down a 187 page thread with literally no warning. Coming in days later and acting collegial doesn't give you a pass on that. It may come as quite a surprise to you, but many - probably most - of those in this forum had no idea that Matrix had adopted this "decency" policy. Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, you should have tried informing us of that HERE - in OUR forum.

_____________________________


(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 35
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 5:57:47 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?


To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 36
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:02:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?


To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?


So, that post existed for so long and it did not bother you but now it does simply because you went looking for something to find objectionable. How come that is the only post that you mentioned? Could you not find any others? You always want other people to fully explain their actions and post links but you do not do so. Is that beneath you to do so? Why are you asking about my motivations about a post from so many days ago? Have you not yet found any other posts objectionable?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 37
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:06:58 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon


You may want to lock your own threads regarding Master of Magic with images of a topless woman with exposed nipples and very scantily clad women designed to entice youngsters into buying this game Slitherine will be releasing.

In the press releases section of the forum, check out the Dev Diaries for Masters of Magic since September.

It is very much a case of "Do what I say, not as I do" and they do very much present women in the manner in which you complain about here.




_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 38
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:18:08 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?


To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?


So, that post existed for so long and it did not bother you but now it does simply because you went looking for something to find objectionable. How come that is the only post that you mentioned? Could you not find any others? You always want other people to fully explain their actions and post links but you do not do so. Is that beneath you to do so? Why are you asking about my motivations about a post from so many days ago? Have you not yet found any other posts objectionable?


In post #24 of this thread, you asked for examples of crassness towards women. I was able to immediately provide an example of that.

Your current attempt to weasel the discussion away from what you actually posted to the why it's currently under focus is fooling nobody.

I'm not going to indulge in a full audit of your objectionable activities as:

1) It's not my job, frankly

2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're already well known to the admin staff for posting wider objectionable (and in some jurisdictions - illegal) content. Perhaps a better request would be to ask for a search of posts that are not objectionable?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 39
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:26:13 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2613
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
Thanks for that comment, DD696! This is BEYOND parody. Look who posted this image - on 11/23 no less - well AFTER this supposed "decency" standard was adopted:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

Development Diary #5 - Q&A Time






_____________________________


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 40
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:26:32 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach


Your actions say otherwise. You shut down a 187 page thread with literally no warning. Coming in days later and acting collegial doesn't give you a pass on that. It may come as quite a surprise to you, but many - probably most - of those in this forum had no idea that Matrix had adopted this "decency" policy. Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, you should have tried informing us of that HERE - in OUR forum.


+1


Apparently some form of Gedanken-Polizei has reached this forum in the form of censoring an extremely mundane topic. People are really not going to be very proud of this particular aspect of human history.









(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 41
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:31:46 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon


You may want to lock your own threads regarding Master of Magic with images of a topless woman with exposed nipples and very scantily clad women designed to entice youngsters into buying this game Slitherine will be releasing.

In the press releases section of the forum, check out the Dev Diaries for Masters of Magic since September.

It is very much a case of "Do what I say, not as I do" and they do very much present women in the manner in which you complain about here.





+1 again! Apparently, Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi
Or should that be Quod licet progameri?

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 42
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:34:54 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon


You may want to lock your own threads regarding Master of Magic with images of a topless woman with exposed nipples and very scantily clad women designed to entice youngsters into buying this game Slitherine will be releasing.

In the press releases section of the forum, check out the Dev Diaries for Masters of Magic since September.

It is very much a case of "Do what I say, not as I do" and they do very much present women in the manner in which you complain about here.





The picture you are referring to is of the old version of Master of Magic, which had nothing to do with Slitherine. We have in fact, drawn a lot of fire from the older generation of MoM players because in the new version of the game, the character you are referring to is vastly more modestly dressed and no longer has exposed nipples or anything else. So we have, in many peoples opinion's "censored" the original game.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach


Your actions say otherwise. You shut down a 187 page thread with literally no warning. Coming in days later and acting collegial doesn't give you a pass on that. It may come as quite a surprise to you, but many - probably most - of those in this forum had no idea that Matrix had adopted this "decency" policy. Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, you should have tried informing us of that HERE - in OUR forum.


I have been here for over a year now and there was a global announcement (visible from any place in the forum) about the changes in the rules. The change came months ago and the "Australian Beauties" thread was locked as a first step in showing that we were serious about our policies.

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.



I realize this policy will be unpopular for those that see this as some form of censorship, but I believe it is a step in the right direction and honestly, I would hope that on thinking about it, most would agree.

< Message edited by Edmon -- 1/14/2022 6:35:35 PM >

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 43
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:40:39 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2613
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.


Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"

_____________________________


(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 44
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:41:45 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?


To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?


So, that post existed for so long and it did not bother you but now it does simply because you went looking for something to find objectionable. How come that is the only post that you mentioned? Could you not find any others? You always want other people to fully explain their actions and post links but you do not do so. Is that beneath you to do so? Why are you asking about my motivations about a post from so many days ago? Have you not yet found any other posts objectionable?


In post #24 of this thread, you asked for examples of crassness towards women. I was able to immediately provide an example of that.

Your current attempt to weasel the discussion away from what you actually posted to the why it's currently under focus is fooling nobody.

I'm not going to indulge in a full audit of your objectionable activities as:

1) It's not my job, frankly

2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're already well known to the admin staff for posting wider objectionable (and in some jurisdictions - illegal) content. Perhaps a better request would be to ask for a search of posts that are not objectionable?


1) You were the one who mentioned it.

2) What objectionable and possibly - in some jurisdictions - illegal content did I post? Did I post a picture of a croissant and you find that abhorrent?

I asked for examples (plural) and you only provided one that met your criteria even though you did not explain what was so crass towards women? What commentary did I make that you found objectionable then? What about any verbiage on my post do you find objectionable now? Is it because you think that it is something against your ideological beliefs?

I am not attempting to weasel away from anything but you appear to be doing so. Have you ever even seen a weasel? A real live weasel? If so, why are you trying to compare what I supposedly doing to such an animal? Is that an insult to me or are you trying to insult an animal?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 45
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:48:39 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.


Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"


I could post a picture of a woman looking at her picture in the nose art of an aircraft. In fact, I could probably find many of them. Some women currently fly aircraft with nose art. There is nose art currently in the military world as well as the civilian world - some of which is very nice!

So the era of respecting women was not and never was acceptable? WOW! You should see how some of them appeared on stage to entertain - what they willingly wore and a job that they volunteered for and may not have been paid for.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 46
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 6:50:27 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.


Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"


I presume you are referring to master of magic, where we have the original artwork and the new artwork side by side. Showing where we have added clothing to and made less sexualized the female main characters while trying to preserve their identity?

Threads where we literally explain that attitudes have and must change and thus the original artwork (where there are female characters of ambiguously young age in various states of undress) must go?

If the original MoM was made today, it wouldn't be as it is. This is why we have and are making changes to the new MoM in line with our polices.



Is is easier and more profitable to be quiet and do nothing, citing that the old game had young partially naked girls so the new game should also have that. But we are following through on our promises and policies even if that hurts sales.

So I think that very much proves that it is not one rule for us and one rule for you.

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 47
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 7:05:27 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4402
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
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Guess I have to retire my sigpic?

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(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 48
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 7:08:02 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Guess I have to retire my sigpic?


Please do.

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 49
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 7:18:40 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon


You may want to lock your own threads regarding Master of Magic with images of a topless woman with exposed nipples and very scantily clad women designed to entice youngsters into buying this game Slitherine will be releasing.

In the press releases section of the forum, check out the Dev Diaries for Masters of Magic since September.

It is very much a case of "Do what I say, not as I do" and they do very much present women in the manner in which you complain about here.





The picture you are referring to is of the old version of Master of Magic, which had nothing to do with Slitherine. We have in fact, drawn a lot of fire from the older generation of MoM players because in the new version of the game, the character you are referring to is vastly more modestly dressed and no longer has exposed nipples or anything else. So we have, in many peoples opinion's "censored" the original game.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach


Your actions say otherwise. You shut down a 187 page thread with literally no warning. Coming in days later and acting collegial doesn't give you a pass on that. It may come as quite a surprise to you, but many - probably most - of those in this forum had no idea that Matrix had adopted this "decency" policy. Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, you should have tried informing us of that HERE - in OUR forum.


I have been here for over a year now and there was a global announcement (visible from any place in the forum) about the changes in the rules. The change came months ago and the "Australian Beauties" thread was locked as a first step in showing that we were serious about our policies.

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.



I realize this policy will be unpopular for those that see this as some form of censorship, but I believe it is a step in the right direction and honestly, I would hope that on thinking about it, most would agree.


My statement stands very upright. You can post images/pictures of this type but the rabble of the forums cannot.
You can use these images in an attempt to generate interest and sales of an upcoming game, but if I posted them I would be vilified in today's screwed up world.

Frankly, I do not care for, and take offense, at you saying that the lives of my father and all who came before should be put on the crap heap because they do not live up to these new glorified standards.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 50
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 7:23:48 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2613
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.


Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"


I presume you are referring to master of magic, where we have the original artwork and the new artwork side by side. Showing where we have added clothing to and made less sexualized the female main characters while trying to preserve their identity?



Yep that's the game, but I'm referring to one thread in particular. Dev Diary #5 which appeared one month AFTER the new policy. Take a good look at the image on top of your post (which is helpfully viewable in post #40 above). It sure looks like a new load screen to me. And NOWHERE in your post is there a "before and after" discussion on that image. So even if it *was* something from the old game (which I doubt), you left a very misleading impression that it would be part of the new one. Which certainly won't hamper sales, will it?

Oh, and it would be nice if you could please answer my earlier question about whether Matrix plans to continue profiting from a game (Distant Worlds Universe) which features an entire race of scantily clad females. Thanks.

_____________________________


(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 51
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 7:38:09 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696
....

My statement stands very upright. You can post images/pictures of this type but the rabble of the forums cannot.
You can use these images in an attempt to generate interest and sales of an upcoming game, but if I posted them I would be vilified in today's screwed up world.

Frankly, I do not care for, and take offense, at you saying that the lives of my father and all who came before should be put on the crap heap because they do not live up to these new glorified standards.


But don't you see, it is so beautiful! There are so many of these choirpeople (I hope I didn't offend the people that don't identify as a choir!) apologizing and kneeling and feeling soo deeply sorry about all the apparent wrongs that happened in history!! Finally we have all these wonderfully bright, pretenti... euh intelligent people to lead us toward the light that, although shining right in our face all these years, we were so blind to see! My eyes fill with water out of pure joy and heartfelt vomi... euh apologies!

I propose a gathering of these wonderful people! Where they can be honored and get all the heavenly rewards they so rightfully deserve! Why not in Riyadh in Saudi-Arabia? known for it's pro-women sentiment and matrix games sales! Preferably holding hands with a lot of rainbow flags!
What could possibly go wrong.


(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 52
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 7:41:44 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
Love your reply. Thank you.

I feel like going out and tearing down a statue of George Washington!!!

Edit: How could I have been so wrong in thinking that there were attractive women in this world. We must ban all images of women except for those we make money off of.

If I did that, would it make me a pimp?

< Message edited by DD696 -- 1/14/2022 7:47:22 PM >


_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 53
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 7:52:13 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.


Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"


I presume you are referring to master of magic, where we have the original artwork and the new artwork side by side. Showing where we have added clothing to and made less sexualized the female main characters while trying to preserve their identity?



Yep that's the game, but I'm referring to one thread in particular. Dev Diary #5 which appeared one month AFTER the new policy. Take a good look at the image on top of your post (which is helpfully viewable in post #40 above). It sure looks like a new load screen to me. And NOWHERE in your post is there a "before and after" discussion on that image. So even if it *was* something from the old game (which I doubt), you left a very misleading impression that it would be part of the new one. Which certainly won't hamper sales, will it?

Oh, and it would be nice if you could please answer my earlier question about whether Matrix plans to continue profiting from a game (Distant Worlds Universe) which features an entire race of scantily clad females. Thanks.


Sorry, I misunderstood which image you were objecting to. The arguments we've had are mostly over the original art which is far, far worse.

The image you refer to is one of the new artworks. We don't object to artwork from the development teams simply because a character is wearing a high cut Chinese style dress or is in a bodice. Some artists will of course, push the guidelines, but if people genuinely complained about this art, then it would be changed. Two artworks from this game have been changed already, for various reasons due to feedback from the community. The developers of the new MoM are actually constantly taking such feedback on the steam forums for this game.


To be clear: We object to artwork that is very deliberately sexualized, has "presenting" posing, has exposed genitalia, etc.


I locked the other thread because it had lots of posts of women where the main focus of the artwork is their backsides, I hope that everyone understands that.

As always, there can be grey areas and we are always looking at improvements to our policies and clearer guidelines.


I understand that you are frustrated, we understood going in that this is an area in which we will be placed into "no win" positions between those that agree with the new polices and those that don't and/or think the old artwork should be respected.

Nevertheless, we have made these changes to make our communities more inclusive and it is our position that we have no plans to roll things back to how they were.

It has always been the case that politics, religion and adult/sexual content has not been allowed. We have simply tightened our stance on images that skirt the rules.

I hope you understand.

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 54
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 8:17:17 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
Lordy!!! The vast majority of pictures taken have some type of posing in them. I used to tell my first wife "don't just stand there, do something"!

When I would tell my daughter "smile", well, I reckon that was posing and that picture would not be allowed here.

Thank God for Slithering/Martix getting in bed with the Pentagon and making us all realize that we are all mighty worthless in this environment.

Don't post a picture of your female dog or cat from a rear angle!

For that matter, pictures of a dog's exposed balls don't interest me either.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Edmon)
Post #: 55
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 8:26:57 PM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Love your reply. Thank you.

I feel like going out and tearing down a statue of George Washington!!!

Edit: How could I have been so wrong in thinking that there were attractive women in this world. We must ban all images of women except for those we make money off of.

If I did that, would it make me a pimp?


You're welcome.

I've seen a glimpse of the future :
Women enjoying life to the fullest in an equal world with equal opportunities for all.

PS, it might look like this picture was taken in the vicinity of Medina, but these are just a bunch of Epsom girls walking along on Church Street.









Attachment (1)

< Message edited by tolsdorff -- 1/14/2022 8:27:25 PM >

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 56
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 8:45:12 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
Yes!!! That is exactly how all women must be presented, or how they must "present". To do otherwise may be taken as some form of women being shown as being sexualized.

I shall immediately instruct my daughter and 2 granddaughters to present themselves in this way.

I shall make up a sign and go forth upon the streets of Savannah telling all women who expose an ankle or a neckbone that the hammer of Matrix is coming for them. Actually, to be more precise, I should say that the hammer of Slitherine is going to strike them down. Thank the Lord for Slitherine showing us the way.

Edit: To be honest, I do see some bulges that may be interpreted as women's breasts. What must we do to protect the world from the evils of women?

What must we do????

< Message edited by DD696 -- 1/14/2022 8:48:40 PM >


_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 57
RE: Ok it's time to go - 1/14/2022 8:50:36 PM   
Edmon

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/16/2020
Status: offline
Right, I think that last post by tolsdorff has really gone too far...

So I am going to lock this thread.


As I said before, you are absolutely welcome to have a thread for socializing, even if these forums are more specifically for discussing WitP.

However, why we no longer allow the sexualization of women on our forums is a topic that is now closed for discussion. We have made our position clear and we ask you, to please respect that position.

Thank you.

< Message edited by Edmon -- 1/14/2022 8:51:27 PM >

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 58
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