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Bread v Nekronion (41 start)

 
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Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/2/2021 10:59:29 PM   
RedJohn

 

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Normal 41 game, will hopefully be returned faster than the other more developed games. This time I chose the Soviets, as I get super stressed dealing with the pressure to perform as Germany.

Fairly normal opening by the looks of things.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/2/2021 11:03:57 PM   
RedJohn

 

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I discovered I could break the pocket here - but I am of the belief that if the Bialystok pocket is broken turn 1, it just leads to a snowball where the Axis will always be on the backfoot. I've always hated the sheer headache that breaking pockets causes for the Germans, especially if it's repeated over mutliple turns. One could argue though, at least in the early stages of 41, that creating a tight pocket with no gaps should be required anyway.

Anyway, I did not move to break the pocket. Those brave men shall die for a greater future.




I WILL, however, move these men to occupy more defensible positions and particularly as much of the dual track railways as I can.

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< Message edited by RedJohn -- 10/2/2021 11:04:59 PM >

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/2/2021 11:15:39 PM   
RedJohn

 

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In the South, I did not have at my array the usual beefed up units that can usually WHACK a panzer regiment that is too far forward. So there will be zero counter-attacks here.

He pushed very heavily at Rovno and the swamp/forests to the north-west. I believe he has diverted stuff from AGC to push there.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/3/2021 4:43:57 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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Are you playing with any special house rules regarding assault HQs or anything like that?

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 12:35:27 AM   
RedJohn

 

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Nah, only house rule is no temporary motorisation for either side.

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 12:37:57 AM   
RedJohn

 

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The Axis advance continues. No further pockets, every pocket except the one formed around lvov thoroughly crushed.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 12:40:04 AM   
RedJohn

 

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Our defensive line proved too formidable for the Germans, and they cowardly marched around it. I would like to reorient and defend forward, but I am also acutely aware of how dangerous that be and so we shall perform strategic retreats.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 12:48:16 AM   
RedJohn

 

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These men occupy the rail leading to Tarnopol, and we actually manage to snag the city itself again. Germany only has 2 dual track options in the south, and occupying one of them should ideally cause combat delay and delay repairs. If nothing else, flipping the hexes for sure delays it anyway.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 1:09:35 AM   
RedJohn

 

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The Southwestern front becomes our first assault front. This is a no brainer move in my opinion, it solves your immediate CP issues and this is the front you're likely to have the most success counterattacking.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 1:34:42 AM   
RedJohn

 

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OOB looking not very good, but I put a lot of men into transfer. Around 12~ divisions have been sent to our first reinforcement point, with another 9-12 being sent elsewhere next turn.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 8:06:02 PM   
RedJohn

 

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Start of turn 3. The Dnepr holds, which worries me greatly, as does the bulge in Ukraine. Germany can almost reliably cross the Dnepr in the centre at turn 2, and if nothing else *should* be at the banks by turn 3. Instinct tells me to retreat at this point, but I will hold on for a turn at least. If I wasn't sure he diverted from AGC I would retreat for sure, but I think I can stick around.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 8:12:12 PM   
RedJohn

 

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The Pskov riverline was not so lucky in avoiding being breached. I will leave a unit in Pskov to force an attack/delay a turn, and the rest shall retreat to the lovely terrain of Leningrad.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/4/2021 8:46:36 PM   
RedJohn

 

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24 Divisions have been sent from the reserve to the map - roughly 300,000 men. If we can avoid any major pockets, this is the beginning of the end for the Wermacht.

But unironically - I believe 3 million men on the map and it becomes extremely difficult for the Germans to push, if they're placed well.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 12:40:47 AM   
Seminole


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

The Pskov riverline was not so lucky in avoiding being breached. I will leave a unit in Pskov to force an attack/delay a turn, and the rest shall retreat to the lovely terrain of Leningrad.





Don’t run too far! A lot of excellent terrain you can force him to fight in.

Have you been able to discern what he has committed from the German mech to seizing Leningrad?

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 1:35:30 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn


But unironically - I believe 3 million men on the map and it becomes extremely difficult for the Germans to push, if they're placed well.





The above is a misconception that has grown in scope since BETA. A German that knows what he/she is doing will slice and dice you in 41 even with 3 million men or 3.5 million men.



< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 10/5/2021 1:37:59 AM >

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 3:00:03 AM   
RedJohn

 

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Looks to be the standard 4th group from what I can see.

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 3:05:57 AM   
RedJohn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn


But unironically - I believe 3 million men on the map and it becomes extremely difficult for the Germans to push, if they're placed well.





The above is a misconception that has grown in scope since BETA. A German that knows what he/she is doing will slice and dice you in 41 even with 3 million men or 3.5 million men.




I would hazard a guess that a lot of German players, myself included, do not reach the level of competence you're thinking of. In such cases I would absolutely argue that 3 million is when it starts becoming difficult to push as Germany.

The biggest difference between the results of a good german player and an average german player, is the ability to keep their motorised/armored elements above 35~ MP consistently.

I'll post a few pictures to emphasize my argument. The first is of most of PZG2, having mostly rested and with the rail being at Kursk. (and beyond but the closest depot is at kursk)..






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< Message edited by RedJohn -- 10/5/2021 3:07:18 AM >

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 3:11:43 AM   
RedJohn

 

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There is only so far you can go with 30 MP. It's quite far, in fairness, but it's not enough I would guess against a "good" soviet player.

The picture below is the same elements encircled. Their movement actually increased (barring the 2 that weren't encircled) and the G.D Mot. Rgt went from I believe 38 MP the previous turn to the max of 50, as you can see. This was repeated across the front, which led to the encirclement of much of the South-western front and put me within like 6 hexes of Moscow.






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< Message edited by RedJohn -- 10/5/2021 3:12:05 AM >

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 3:15:35 AM   
RedJohn

 

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So against the few German players that can work the logistic system efficiently and consistently, I'd agree - 3m men won't really stop them. But for many others, like myself, who struggle with such things, 3m men on the map as the Soviets is when hard-to-break-walls start being formed.

Anyway, back to the AAR I set up my defensive lines and I'll just post them as is (whenever the next turn is handed back). I don't know if Nekronion even reads the forums, but it's been a rather boring AAR I think as I've purposely hidden the positions of all my troops after movement. Fun!

< Message edited by RedJohn -- 10/5/2021 3:16:15 AM >

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 12:30:37 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

So against the few German players that can work the logistic system efficiently and consistently, I'd agree - 3m men won't really stop them. But for many others, like myself, who struggle with such things, 3m men on the map as the Soviets is when hard-to-break-walls start being formed.

Anyway, back to the AAR I set up my defensive lines and I'll just post them as is (whenever the next turn is handed back). I don't know if Nekronion even reads the forums, but it's been a rather boring AAR I think as I've purposely hidden the positions of all my troops after movement. Fun!


Fair enough and your points are valid. Eventually the Germans will get there but I am afraid many have left the German side already, c'est la vie


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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 12:33:28 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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Now, "Thank you" for posting the AAR & looking forward to many more turns of reading to come.

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/5/2021 1:37:41 PM   
K62


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

There is only so far you can go with 30 MP. It's quite far, in fairness, but it's not enough I would guess against a "good" soviet player.

The picture below is the same elements encircled. Their movement actually increased (barring the 2 that weren't encircled) and the G.D Mot. Rgt went from I believe 38 MP the previous turn to the max of 50, as you can see. This was repeated across the front, which led to the encirclement of much of the South-western front and put me within like 6 hexes of Moscow.







The manual talks about this. It usually happens because units with a high supply priority try to draw a lot of supplies and, if far from depots, will use a lot of their own vehicles for freight instead of movement.

A temporary fix is to decrease supply priority on panzer korps that have outrun the supply net. This may give you en extra 1-2 turns of mobility. Eventually fuel dips below 50% and I believe you run into a different set of MP penalties at that point.

_____________________________

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak"
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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/6/2021 11:29:56 PM   
RedJohn

 

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Turn 4, the axis advance continues. Dnepr is technically breached, though I'm hoping I can convert the hexes back. Everything in Odessa is trapped, so I'll need to see if I can navally escape with some of the remaining units.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/6/2021 11:32:37 PM   
RedJohn

 

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Of course, we have reserves deployed this turn to help shore up defences. A tad too late to set up on the Dnepr, but hey.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/6/2021 11:34:20 PM   
RedJohn

 

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I had also deployed to Crimea this turn. Again, though, perhaps a bit late.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/6/2021 11:38:08 PM   
RedJohn

 

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Only a single attack around Smolensk area, the 12th PzD taking Vitebsk. Do I retreat? Do I hold? It's a toughie for me. I'll decide what to do here later.




The attack on the PzD there was just me using an airborne brigade to try and scout it's fuel. I would assume after 2~ turns of rest they're nearly full up, but it showed as orange - possibly just bad soviet recon.

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/6/2021 11:44:39 PM   
RedJohn

 

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To the North, Pskov is taken and our troops just fortify their positions. I do see the opportunity to encircle a very deep motorised unit. It's tempting to try and hold it.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/6/2021 11:46:00 PM   
Rosencrantus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

So against the few German players that can work the logistic system efficiently and consistently, I'd agree - 3m men won't really stop them. But for many others, like myself, who struggle with such things, 3m men on the map as the Soviets is when hard-to-break-walls start being formed.

Anyway, back to the AAR I set up my defensive lines and I'll just post them as is (whenever the next turn is handed back). I don't know if Nekronion even reads the forums, but it's been a rather boring AAR I think as I've purposely hidden the positions of all my troops after movement. Fun!


I enjoy the Soviets being at around 3m, they are usually a lot more willing to stand their ground and I'm usually able to inflict more losses on them as a result. Keeping units in supply is usually easy enough where any line can be broken due to just how high quality your infantry units are as long as you rest them sufficiently in an assault army and how slowly the soviets build forts in 1941.

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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/6/2021 11:58:42 PM   
RedJohn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosencrantus


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

So against the few German players that can work the logistic system efficiently and consistently, I'd agree - 3m men won't really stop them. But for many others, like myself, who struggle with such things, 3m men on the map as the Soviets is when hard-to-break-walls start being formed.

Anyway, back to the AAR I set up my defensive lines and I'll just post them as is (whenever the next turn is handed back). I don't know if Nekronion even reads the forums, but it's been a rather boring AAR I think as I've purposely hidden the positions of all my troops after movement. Fun!


I enjoy the Soviets being at around 3m, they are usually a lot more willing to stand their ground and I'm usually able to inflict more losses on them as a result. Keeping units in supply is usually easy enough where any line can be broken due to just how high quality your infantry units are as long as you rest them sufficiently in an assault army and how slowly the soviets build forts in 1941.


It depends on a number of things of course, but in my experience the willingness to hold their ground is because they can afford to. Defence in depth becomes more readily available across the front, and you'll struggle to make any meaningful breakthrough that they can't immediately cover by shifting troops.

I have split the Soviet armored/mech forces between the Centre and South. I have high expectations for these units to ruin German AFVs.




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RE: Bread v Nekronion (41 start) - 10/7/2021 12:04:49 AM   
RedJohn

 

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And the other part of our forces. Woe to any German panzer that meets this wall of steel.




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