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An update to the official game map - 10/1/2021 6:26:07 AM   
Andrew Brown


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Given this game is still being actively played I thought I would do an update of the map that came with the game. There are no major changes for this update, just a few very minor corrections and a few similarly minor updates and additions, with none of them of game-altering significance.

This work came about as an offshoot to ongoing tweaks I have been making to my own WiTP-AE map, which I have also been back-porting to my extended map. I am still working on an updated version of the extended map, but once I have finished that I will make it available here as well. The map art for the extended map is done, but I still need to update the map data. I am also doing something I resisted doing for ages, which is to use map updates for later changes to the transport system that occurred during the Pacific conflict, such as the construction of the Alcan highway, the Burma railway, and the Ledo Road. My updated extended map will come with those date-based map updates as well. These can be swapped into an ongoing game at the appropriate time.

While the extended map is not yet finished, I can make the updated 'stock' map available, so here it is. There are two versions of this updated stock map:

  1. A standard version with the default style hexes
  2. A 'World in Flames' style version, with small hex dots used instead of hex borders for all 'ocean' hexes.

In addition a separate version of the 'stock' map data file is available that also includes stacking limits, as added by the 'Da Babes' scenario developers.

The changes are as follows:

  • The terrain art in hexes 80,13, 81,14 and 81,15 changed from Clear to Forest+Rough so that the map art matches the existing map data.
  • The main road between hexes 94,163 and 91,161 (Gwydir Highway) in Northern NSW has been corrected.
  • Some of the terrain in Northern Australia has been changed to increase map accuracy and reduce the large expanses of clear terrain:
  • Hexes 72,127 and 72,128 changed to Rough
  • Hexes 73,127 and 74,127 changed to Rough
  • Hex 70,129 changed to Rough
  • Hexes 77,127, 77,128 and 78,128 changed to Rough
  • Hexes 78,127, 79,127, 79,128 and 81,128 changed to Jungle+Rough
  • Hexes 81,135, 81,136, 82,136 and 81,137 changed to Rough
  • Hexes 83,141, 83,142 and 83,143 changed to Rough
  • Hex 76,128 (Katherine) changed to Cultivated
  • Hex 86,147 (Winton) changed to Cultivated
  • Hexes 91,146 and 91,149 changed to Cultivated
  • The map text for the base ‘Anking’ shifted a little so that the road underneath it is not obscured.
  • Ocean hex 71,67, in the South China Sea, has been changed from deep ocean to shallow ocean. This is the location of the Paracel Islands (which were occupied by the Japanese during the war). I have not placed an island in this hex, however, as there will not be a matching base in the official scenarios.
  • The map data for the Skeene River between Prince Rupert and Terrace now matches the map art.
  • The map data for the road from Prince George (hex 204,40) to Terrace (hex 200,41) now matches the map art (primary road all of the way).
  • The one hex long stub of road leading north from Fort St. John in Canada (hex 203,34) has been removed. This was part of the ALCAN Highway which was not constructed until after the start of the Pacific War.
  • The roads to the hex locations of the Canadian towns of Hay River (hex 201,24) and Yellowknife (hex 199,21) have been removed. Apparently these were ‘winter roads’ and construction of proper roads only started at the end of WW2.
  • Most of the roads between Edmonton (hex 210,35) and Fort St. John (hex 203,34) have been downgraded from Primary to Secondary roads.
  • The hexsides of hex 211,22 have been modified to match the map art (changed W and SW hexsides to Land).
  • The island of Kalao in the DEI (66,110) has had its map data corrected so that amphibious assaults of the hex are now allowed.
  • Hex 84,110 has been changed from a land hex to a coastal hex to match the map art.

Thanks to the following Matrix Games forum members for pointing out some of these fixes/changes:

  • Kull
  • DesertWolf101
  • Dutch_slith

Note: Several forum members pointed out errors in the base names printed on the map. I have not corrected these for this version of the map (the ‘official’ map) so that the map continues to match the official scenarios. I have included the base name changes on a new version of my ‘extended’ map.
Another note: Many of these changes are in Canada and are most unlikely to affect play in any way whatsoever. I came across most of these corrections while working on an alternative ‘extended’ map variant that includes the ALCAN Highway, and is intended to be used from late 1942 onwards.

Update 2021-11-14: I have uploaded a newer version of this map update, which now includes a fix for the island of Kalao, allowing it to be amphibiously invaded.

The updated map is available at this website:
War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Updated Official Map

< Message edited by Andrew Brown -- 11/14/2021 4:20:32 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: A map update - 10/1/2021 11:21:10 AM   
RangerJoe


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Thank you.

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RE: A map update - 10/1/2021 12:12:35 PM   
Ian R

 

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Thanks Andrew - probably raised before, but hex 66/110, Kalao - is it intentional that ships cannot dock/load/unload "at this location due to coastal conditions"?

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RE: A map update - 10/1/2021 3:10:19 PM   
SuluSea


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Thank you Andrew!

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RE: A map update - 10/1/2021 3:38:48 PM   
btd64


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Thanks Andrew....GP

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RE: A map update - 10/1/2021 10:55:46 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Thanks Andrew - probably raised before, but hex 66/110, Kalao - is it intentional that ships cannot dock/load/unload "at this location due to coastal conditions"?


No I am not aware of that. What is the exact issue?

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Post #: 6
RE: A map update - 10/2/2021 1:04:57 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Thank you.


Thank you for your help also.

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RE: A map update - 10/2/2021 1:08:49 AM   
Andrew Brown


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Update: I found a small error in the updated stock map art - one of the islands in the Solomons was slightly 'shifted' in its hexes compared to the original map, a leftover from some island 'moving' I was doing for the extended map update. It is not very noticeable and doesn't affect gameplay, but I fixed it and uploaded updated maps to the same location.

I also stumbled upon Google Sites, so I quickly set up a site for housing this (and future) map updates. Here is the link:
sites.google.com/view/witp-ae-maps-and-scenarios

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RE: A map update - 10/2/2021 1:20:28 AM   
witpqs


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RE: A map update - 10/2/2021 5:52:09 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Thanks Andrew - probably raised before, but hex 66/110, Kalao - is it intentional that ships cannot dock/load/unload "at this location due to coastal conditions"?


No I am not aware of that. What is the exact issue?


I looked at the old official map - the east side of the hex has a reef and is a red hexside, but the island should be approachable from other directions. The SPS is (0), so it would be affected by the inability of Naval Support squads to help with loading/unloading (even after a port was built). That may be the reason people thought there was a problem unloading there.

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RE: A map update - 10/19/2021 5:44:05 PM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

Sounds great Andrew. Looking forward to the implementations.

At the risk of being too presumptuous, have you by chance talked to Andy Mac with regards to his scenario updates and mods?
He has modified the AI in the original scenarios and made alternative scenarios 1 and 2 with slight map changes.
I am curious to see if he would be willing to incorporate your new maps into his work, as (if memory serves) he was hesitant to do much besides add dot bases to "prod" the AI and correct some unit data, etc. (I am missing some things).
All that is from memory, so I don't know the whole story.

Thanks.


I am aware of the extra dot bases Andy added. As long as the map data itself was not changed from the original then his scenarios should be compatible with the updated official map. Similarly, scenarios developed for the extended map should work with this updated extended map as well - the only issue will be that this update includes a few islands that won't have corresponding bases (unless a scenario is updated to include them).




Thanks for the updates and all of your hard work Andrew! Was wondering about this combination as well. Hopefully Andy Mac can update his standard map with yours as I don't think he updates an extended map scenario as Moltrey says.

Also is it possible to use other map art with your updated work? Such as Kamikaze Bellum?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4268822

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 10/19/2021 5:46:59 PM >


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RE: A map update - 10/20/2021 10:02:00 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Thanks for the updates and all of your hard work Andrew! Was wondering about this combination as well. Hopefully Andy Mac can update his standard map with yours as I don't think he updates an extended map scenario as Moltrey says.

Also is it possible to use other map art with your updated work? Such as Kamikaze Bellum?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4268822


My update to the official map does change some of the transport links and terrain, but if you prefer to play with another set of map art it should be pretty much OK, as the changes to the map data are mainly in inland Australia and Canada, which won't see much if anything in the way of action.

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RE: A map update - 10/20/2021 10:02:57 AM   
Andrew Brown


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I noticed while I was working on my 1942 'extended' map that I left something out of my work on this map update: I had changed the Richardson Highway between Valdez and Fairbanks in Alaska from a main to a secondary road in the map art, but forgot to change the map data to match. I have fixed that and uploaded the updated zip files to my site (linked in the first post).

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RE: A map update - 11/3/2021 7:41:12 AM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Thanks for the updates and all of your hard work Andrew! Was wondering about this combination as well. Hopefully Andy Mac can update his standard map with yours as I don't think he updates an extended map scenario as Moltrey says.

Also is it possible to use other map art with your updated work? Such as Kamikaze Bellum?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4268822


My update to the official map does change some of the transport links and terrain, but if you prefer to play with another set of map art it should be pretty much OK, as the changes to the map data are mainly in inland Australia and Canada, which won't see much if anything in the way of action.


So to do this we would only need to replace the:

- pwhexe.dat
- pwzlink.dat
- pwzone.dat

with your version and use whatever art we prefer and this should work ok correct?

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/3/2021 6:55:45 PM >


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RE: A map update - 11/3/2021 12:21:48 PM   
HansBolter


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I'm presuming that since this is not just a map art update and contains map terrain data files that it will NOT work as a replacement for a full stacking limits everywhere version?

Is that a correct assumption?

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RE: A map update - 11/6/2021 11:34:19 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Thanks for the updates and all of your hard work Andrew! Was wondering about this combination as well. Hopefully Andy Mac can update his standard map with yours as I don't think he updates an extended map scenario as Moltrey says.

Also is it possible to use other map art with your updated work? Such as Kamikaze Bellum?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4268822


My update to the official map does change some of the transport links and terrain, but if you prefer to play with another set of map art it should be pretty much OK, as the changes to the map data are mainly in inland Australia and Canada, which won't see much if anything in the way of action.


So to do this we would only need to replace the:

- pwhexe.dat
- pwzlink.dat
- pwzone.dat

with your version and use whatever art we prefer and this should work ok correct?


Yes that is right. You need my new map data files, which are the ones you have listed. There will be some differences between the new map data and any old map art for the stock map, but those differences are in out of the way places so should not be a big issue.

If you want a complete match, then you need to use my updated stock map art as well as the updated map data.

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RE: A map update - 11/6/2021 11:36:30 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I'm presuming that since this is not just a map art update and contains map terrain data files that it will NOT work as a replacement for a full stacking limits everywhere version?

Is that a correct assumption?


Yes that is right - my updated map data file does not include stacking limits.

However if you have a stock map variant with stacking limits I MAY Be able to port them over and create an alternative map data file with the stacking limits included. If you can provide the map data file with the stacking limits included (or point out where it is available) I can take a look.

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RE: A map update - 11/7/2021 12:39:49 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I'm presuming that since this is not just a map art update and contains map terrain data files that it will NOT work as a replacement for a full stacking limits everywhere version?

Is that a correct assumption?


Yes that is right - my updated map data file does not include stacking limits.

However if you have a stock map variant with stacking limits I MAY Be able to port them over and create an alternative map data file with the stacking limits included. If you can provide the map data file with the stacking limits included (or point out where it is available) I can take a look.

The extended and stacking limit maps are available on the last page of the Big Babes site: https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/

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RE: A map update - 11/7/2021 11:07:44 AM   
HansBolter


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Thanks BB.

I'm playing a Babes based mod that uses the original map (non-extended) but with the stacking limits everywhere data files from the Babes site linked by BBfanboy.

Others may have an interest in an extended map stacking limits update.



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RE: A map update - 11/7/2021 6:44:31 PM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Thanks BB.

I'm playing a Babes based mod that uses the original map (non-extended) but with the stacking limits everywhere data files from the Babes site linked by BBfanboy.

Others may have an interest in an extended map stacking limits update.




Is this the B-Mod? https://sites.google.com/site/bigbsshipyard/b-mod-ae

Or the Bottlenecks in the Pacific? https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

I had forgotten about these. If so how do you like compared to stock and Dbabes?

You play AI only correct? Have you played AndyMac's updated stock scenario AI's? Or do you still prefer B-Mod/Bottleneck/Dbabes?

I see a lot of people now using these stacking limits as house rules sounds like they are an improvement on the game and I should transition as well...so indeed others would have interest...


< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/7/2021 7:37:29 PM >


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RE: A map update - 11/8/2021 1:40:06 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Thanks BB.

I'm playing a Babes based mod that uses the original map (non-extended) but with the stacking limits everywhere data files from the Babes site linked by BBfanboy.

Others may have an interest in an extended map stacking limits update.




Is this the B-Mod? https://sites.google.com/site/bigbsshipyard/b-mod-ae

Or the Bottlenecks in the Pacific? https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

I had forgotten about these. If so how do you like compared to stock and Dbabes?

You play AI only correct? Have you played AndyMac's updated stock scenario AI's? Or do you still prefer B-Mod/Bottleneck/Dbabes?

I see a lot of people now using these stacking limits as house rules sounds like they are an improvement on the game and I should transition as well...so indeed others would have interest...




I was an early fan of AndyMac's Iron man scenarios and have played most of them including with updated AIs.

I played his scenario #40 to early '46 and enjoyed it immensely.

Am currently playing my own slightly modded version of The Long Road to Tokyo.

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RE: A map update - 11/8/2021 7:10:39 PM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Thanks BB.

I'm playing a Babes based mod that uses the original map (non-extended) but with the stacking limits everywhere data files from the Babes site linked by BBfanboy.

Others may have an interest in an extended map stacking limits update.




Is this the B-Mod? https://sites.google.com/site/bigbsshipyard/b-mod-ae

Or the Bottlenecks in the Pacific? https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

I had forgotten about these. If so how do you like compared to stock and Dbabes?

You play AI only correct? Have you played AndyMac's updated stock scenario AI's? Or do you still prefer B-Mod/Bottleneck/Dbabes?

I see a lot of people now using these stacking limits as house rules sounds like they are an improvement on the game and I should transition as well...so indeed others would have interest...




I was an early fan of AndyMac's Iron man scenarios and have played most of them including with updated AIs.

I played his scenario #40 to early '46 and enjoyed it immensely.

Am currently playing my own slightly modded version of The Long Road to Tokyo.


Ah thank you. So many interesting scenarios. Which one have you found to be most difficult against the AI?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4405316&mpage=1&key=

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RE: A map update - 11/9/2021 6:22:20 PM   
HansBolter


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Didn't mean to hijack this thread.

The honest answer is that none of the AI scenarios are difficult for an experienced player.

Ones that significantly beef up the AI side allow the AI side (at least the Japanese AI side) to achieve a greater initial overrun of the Allies and also allows the AI to remain a somewhat viable opponent for far longer than a more historically configured AI side is capable of.

Giving the AI side much more to lose before it runs out of stuff to lose is a key factor.

Balancing that so the AI doesn't lose all its stuff before it loses the ground the active player wants to take is the real design challenge.

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RE: A map update - 11/13/2021 2:36:15 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Thanks BB.

I'm playing a Babes based mod that uses the original map (non-extended) but with the stacking limits everywhere data files from the Babes site linked by BBfanboy.

Others may have an interest in an extended map stacking limits update.




I am working on a map data file for my updated stock map that includes the stacking limits from DaBabes. I will post a note in this forum when it is ready.

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Post #: 24
RE: A map update - 11/13/2021 4:18:58 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Thanks BB.

I'm playing a Babes based mod that uses the original map (non-extended) but with the stacking limits everywhere data files from the Babes site linked by BBfanboy.

Others may have an interest in an extended map stacking limits update.




I am working on a map data file for my updated stock map that includes the stacking limits from DaBabes. I will post a note in this forum when it is ready.


Andrew, thanks for all your support to the game over the past decade! Is there an updated map data set with stacking limits for the revised stock map?

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Post #: 25
RE: A map update - 11/13/2021 5:02:17 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Thanks Andrew - probably raised before, but hex 66/110, Kalao - is it intentional that ships cannot dock/load/unload "at this location due to coastal conditions"?


No I am not aware of that. What is the exact issue?



I'm using stock map.

You can fly engineers support squads and supply into kalao by Catalina and like flying boats, and build up the air strip, and them use transport aircraft to get the building moving. But ...

Any attempt to move troops or supply there by (amphibious) TF is met with a message that the TF can't unload there due to "coastal conditions".

I'm wondering if this is intentional. There are other 0 port islands where you can't build the port at all, but yoiu can usually at least unload from an amphib TF there.

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RE: A map update - 11/13/2021 5:17:07 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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This is the reason for the Kalao amphib problem:






Attachment (1)

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RE: A map update - 11/13/2021 5:21:17 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Thanks Andrew - probably raised before, but hex 66/110, Kalao - is it intentional that ships cannot dock/load/unload "at this location due to coastal conditions"?


No I am not aware of that. What is the exact issue?


I looked at the old official map - the east side of the hex has a reef and is a red hexside, but the island should be approachable from other directions. The SPS is (0), so it would be affected by the inability of Naval Support squads to help with loading/unloading (even after a port was built). That may be the reason people thought there was a problem unloading there.


No, that is not the problem.

The problem is that if you direct an amphib TF to that destination to unload supply or anything else, you get a message that the TF can't unload due to "coastal conditions

Edit: See LST's post above. The question is, is it set that way for a reason?

< Message edited by Ian R -- 11/13/2021 5:25:19 PM >


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RE: A map update - 11/14/2021 4:25:30 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

This is the reason for the Kalao amphib problem:


Thanks LST. I should have thought to check that.

I have fixed that in my updated 'stock' map data file and I have uploaded a version of my map with that file to my website. The link to the site is:
War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Updated Official Map

I also finished creating a version of the 'stock' map data file that includes the stacking limits that were added by the Da Babes scenario designers (I have my own system for that, but haven't created an updated map data file with my version of the stacking limits yet. When I do I will make that file available as well). The map data file with the stacking limits included is also available at my site using the link above.

Next, I need to add this fix to the extended map, but that is a work in progress...

If anyone spots any other map errors please let me know.

< Message edited by Andrew Brown -- 11/14/2021 4:26:21 AM >

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 29
RE: A map update - 11/14/2021 4:35:43 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 4957
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
The problem is that if you direct an amphib TF to that destination to unload supply or anything else, you get a message that the TF can't unload due to "coastal conditions

Edit: See LST's post above. The question is, is it set that way for a reason?


No, it was just an error. The coastal hexes that are configured to disallow amphibious assaults are those with swamp, tundra, or icefield terrain, and no base. Everything else should be able to be invaded. My map update has now been updated (shades of Monty Python) to include this fix.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 30
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