Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Stepping away

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Stepping away Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Stepping away - 9/24/2021 5:52:12 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6796
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
At this point I am stepping away from the game since I do not wish to offend people on what I post. I posted in this thread https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5079658 and Loki took it as a personal attack. It was not, he is stepping down as a moderator which I don’t support since he has been a wealth of insight and postings. I don’t want to infringe on that & feel Loki is a much better resource to the game than I ever will be. I was only trying to post that the losses are way too much for just flying around engaging nothing and should be looked into. It was not an attack on him nor anyone else on the forum. Maybe the operational losses are to historical standards, I don’t know. Maybe the developers have it mirrored to historical on Air Superiority missions losses, I don’t know. I am not that up on that history. But just flying around taking that amount of losses in my gaming history is over the top when not engaging anything. With that I bid everyone good luck & wish all well. The forum should not lose a person of Loki’s character as moderator thus I am stepping away.
Post #: 1
RE: Stepping away - 9/24/2021 6:17:24 PM   
GibsonPete


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline
I would ask that you reconsider. I consider your insight valuable. Should your decision stand I understand and will miss you.

As for Loki stepping down I think that is a mistake. He is also a invaluable resource for those who care about the game.

I would hate to lose out on the knowledge I would gain over something that was a simple misunderstanding.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 2
RE: Stepping away - 9/24/2021 6:19:18 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3451
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline
+1 with what Gibson said.

(in reply to GibsonPete)
Post #: 3
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 12:29:45 AM   
actrade

 

Posts: 275
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: online
Leaving again? Didn't you do this a few months ago? Dude stop with the drama. Loki is a big boy and I hate to see him go as well, but I seriously doubt you leaving is going to have an impact on his decision.

< Message edited by actrade -- 9/25/2021 12:30:51 AM >

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 4
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 12:47:05 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6796
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade

Leaving again? Didn't you do this a few months ago? Dude stop with the drama. Loki is a big boy and I hate to see him go as well, but I seriously doubt you leaving is going to have an impact on his decision.


No, won't have any impact at all on Loki. I just stepped away for awhile to not say anything bad about the game/Loki on the forum. I like the game too much to leave. Last time was because of work and I had no choice.

(in reply to actrade)
Post #: 5
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 12:51:19 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32054
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to actrade)
Post #: 6
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 12:51:22 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6796
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade

Leaving again? Didn't you do this a few months ago? Dude stop with the drama. Loki is a big boy and I hate to see him go as well, but I seriously doubt you leaving is going to have an impact on his decision.


No, won't have any impact at all on Loki. I just stepped away for awhile to not say anything bad about the game/Loki on the forum. I like the game too much to leave. Last time was because of work and I had no choice.


I did not quite if that is what people were thinking

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 7
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 12:55:56 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6796
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.


Thank you Joel. I didn't quit, I just stepped away for the afternoon from the game to let things cool down. I love Loki and I 2nd he has been a great inspiration for many players here.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 8
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 2:04:07 PM   
wkuh

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 5/16/2017
Status: offline
Compliments to all who work the game. Thanks for your efforts, whatever futures you desire.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 9
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 2:31:44 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3897
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.


Thank you Joel. I didn't quit, I just stepped away for the afternoon from the game to let things cool down. I love Loki and I 2nd he has been a great inspiration for many players here.


Glad you're sticking around. and hope Loki does as well, moderator or no, he provides valuable insight. As do you.

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 10
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 7:06:48 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6796
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.


Thank you Joel. I didn't quit, I just stepped away for the afternoon from the game to let things cool down. I love Loki and I 2nd he has been a great inspiration for many players here.


Glad you're sticking around. and hope Loki does as well, moderator or no, he provides valuable insight. As do you.


I hope Loki does too. I understand where he is coming from in our emails. I believe we want the same thing but I am not elegant in my manner in how I present things at times on my posting. I personally am not that good in the game. I make lots of mistakes and don't know the manual as others on this forum do. Trial and error is my mantra with in depth mind mapping things out on paper for cause & effect. I try to share my insights for good or bad which I have done both for people to see.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 11
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 7:08:17 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6796
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hey guys, let's let Loki and HLYA come and go as they choose. Loki has been a huge member of the team and continues to provide great testing insight and changes for the living manual. Being a moderator can be tough sledding some times and the game can take a lot out of a person. It's very common for our long term testers to step back periodically. HLYA has also provided a lot of insight and useful feedback. I'm sure no offense was intended on anyone's part, but let them do what they feel necessary. Hopefully both will stay engaged with the game in one way or another over time. We all need to step back and recharge at times. I do want to say Roger (Loki) has been doing an amazing job testing, helping answer questions on the forum, writing the best manual we've ever put out, and revising the living manual. He continues to provide lots of feedback in our tester forum. If I were him I'd be burned out on the game after all that, so hats off to him.

As for the air game issues, all I can say is that this is on the list to be looked at, but unfortunately it has to wait until the editor work is done. We've put that off a long time and we really need to focus on it. The air game can't be easily tweaked without a lot of focus and testing time, and Pavel is responsible for both the editor and the bulk of the air game. So it will have to wait. We will get to it eventually though. In the meantime, since Gary is responsible for the bulk of the ground game, that is getting out attention and testing time now.


Thank you Joel. I didn't quit, I just stepped away for the afternoon from the game to let things cool down. I love Loki and I 2nd he has been a great inspiration for many players here.


Glad you're sticking around. and hope Loki does as well, moderator or no, he provides valuable insight. As do you.


I hope Loki does too. I understand where he is coming from in our emails. I believe we want the same thing but I am not elegant in my manner in how I present things at times on my posting. I personally am not that good in the game. I make lots of mistakes and don't know the manual as others on this forum do. Trial and error is my mantra with in depth mind mapping things out on paper for cause & effect. I try to share my insights for good or bad which I have done both for people to see.


By the way, Jubjub is a wealth of very good in depth knowledge too. If and when he writes something take notice :-)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 12
RE: Stepping away - 9/25/2021 7:10:32 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6796
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I make lots of mistakes and don't know the manual as others on this forum do. Trial and error is my mantra with in depth mind mapping things out on paper for cause & effect.



NOW you know where my name comes from ;_)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 13
RE: Stepping away - 9/27/2021 9:44:49 AM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline
Hatred over a game! Yep, I remember that.
The plurality, if not majority of fans of War in the East 1 and 2 are pro-Soviet sycophants who look at their opponents as actual psuedo-Nazis for thinking that the game should give even a glimmer of hope that the Axis can achieve any kind of victory condition that occurs while the Hitlerites are on the soil of Mother Russia...

You are all beta testers of a game with so much data that the game only accidentally resembles warfare during World War Two on the Eastern Front. This game is so ridiculously over-modeled with data that it produces inexplicable results.

This is not a game for tacticians or students of history. It is not even a game for people who appreciate the details of difficult operational warfare. It is a game for data miners to improve on Zhukov's magnum opus.

Remember when they banned Pelton when he started pointing stuff out about playtester bias (albeit like a crazy-person) back in WitE2 alpha testing? No? Just me? mKay...

_____________________________

Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 14
RE: Stepping away - 9/27/2021 11:03:26 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Hatred over a game! Yep, I remember that.
The plurality, if not majority of fans of War in the East 1 and 2 are pro-Soviet sycophants who look at their opponents as actual psuedo-Nazis for thinking that the game should give even a glimmer of hope that the Axis can achieve any kind of victory condition that occurs while the Hitlerites are on the soil of Mother Russia...

You are all beta testers of a game with so much data that the game only accidentally resembles warfare during World War Two on the Eastern Front. This game is so ridiculously over-modeled with data that it produces inexplicable results.

This is not a game for tacticians or students of history. It is not even a game for people who appreciate the details of difficult operational warfare. It is a game for data miners to improve on Zhukov's magnum opus.

Remember when they banned Pelton when he started pointing stuff out about playtester bias (albeit like a crazy-person) back in WitE2 alpha testing? No? Just me? mKay...

Personnally, I don't know anything about "The plurality, if not majority of fans of War in the East 1 and 2" neither do I know who "Pelton" is/was and what happened to him. And frankly, I don't care either.

Those low bits put aside, I do think that you're right to say that the over-modelisation of this game with data is finally resulting into an end product wich looks like a poor tactical/operational/strategical simulation of WW2 (it's failing all criterium trying to achieve all).

I also think you are nasty about the Zhukov part.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 15
RE: Stepping away - 9/27/2021 3:00:01 PM   
kahta

 

Posts: 285
Joined: 9/21/2019
From: Arkansas
Status: offline

This is a game. I think it's time we all start acting like it.

_____________________________


(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 16
RE: Stepping away - 9/27/2021 4:09:17 PM   
GibsonPete


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline
I remember Pelton and his rants. I also remember how often he was right and how often he was rude and gamey. I have no information on play tester or player bias so will not touch it. IMO the individuals on this forum are 99% of the time polite and generous with sharing concepts and issues. All of us know the game has some issues that are being discussed (glass cannon panzer divisions, Assault HQ, temp motorization, Air OPS losses, etc.). Those discussions and ultimate resolutions are necessary. I hope they continue.

(in reply to kahta)
Post #: 17
RE: Stepping away - 9/27/2021 4:18:32 PM   
hei1

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 11/22/2019
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kahta


This is a game. I think it's time we all start acting like it.


+1 !!! (first rule in game design: "a game should create fun")

BTW: WitE1/2 are really great conflict simulation games. And I like to follow discussions in this forum. ... First rule in simulations: the player rely on his/her real world intuition and knowledge. The game is an approximation on a more or less abstract level.

_____________________________

--- it's not a bug, it's a feature ---

(in reply to kahta)
Post #: 18
RE: Stepping away - 9/27/2021 5:02:59 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37174
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04
Hatred over a game! Yep, I remember that.
The plurality, if not majority of fans of War in the East 1 and 2 are pro-Soviet sycophants who look at their opponents as actual psuedo-Nazis for thinking that the game should give even a glimmer of hope that the Axis can achieve any kind of victory condition that occurs while the Hitlerites are on the soil of Mother Russia...


I think this is inaccurate and also somewhat insulting. If you have an individual beef with someone, that's one thing, making broad generalizations about the community is another. Please keep discussions on this forum civil, consider this a warning.

quote:

Remember when they banned Pelton when he started pointing stuff out about playtester bias (albeit like a crazy-person) back in WitE2 alpha testing? No? Just me? mKay...


I'm not sure you're aware of this, but Pelton's banning had to do with repeatedly breaking the forum rules regarding civility towards others in the community. He was himself part of the test team earlier based on his experience and skill, but it was his rude and uncivil behavior that resulted in a ban, nothing else.

Regards,

- Erik


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 9/27/2021 5:03:11 PM >


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 19
RE: Stepping away - 9/28/2021 2:25:57 AM   
GibsonPete


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline
Erik is absolutely correct about Pelton. The Matrix staff gave Pelton numerous attempts to correct his bad behavior and he simply felt he was above it all. They were forced to get rid of him.

As for the bias of any tester or player bias I have not observed it and will again state I have found all to be polite and generous in stating their positions.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 20
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Stepping away Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.227