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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot

 
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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 5:55:30 PM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thomasharvey

Also note the massive Bot forces headed for Holland. The Bot tries to roll into Holland but . . .


As the Axis player I employed that same strategy in the short scenario France 40. Only got as far as Brussels. Interested to see if the Bot can do better in the WAW version.

Regards


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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 8:52:01 PM   
thomasharvey


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T7 10/13/39 This shows the 1st wave of mobilization. Not much, just one armored division and a brigade. Both in the red. The French will run out of time to bring in all their stuff. It is 1939.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 8:53:42 PM   
thomasharvey


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T7 10/13/39 This shows two German infantry units that broke through sections of the Maginot line. I could not destroy them. They will now cause more trouble.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 8:56:56 PM   
thomasharvey


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quote:

As the Axis player I employed that same strategy in the short scenario France 40. Only got as far as Brussels. Interested to see if the Bot can do better in the WAW version.

Regards


The Allies need more UK help to hold out. I will not give it as Afrika requires a major effort. If the UK is wiped out in France in 1940, the scenario would be lost right there unless the Soviets can win alone. They can but maybe not by the time limit. The Axis will always lose the war but maybe not the scenario.

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Post #: 34
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 9:04:03 PM   
thomasharvey


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T8 10/20/39 Here is the problem I tried to avoid. The Bot cut off Holland from Belgium. Some UK forces are trapped in the Hague. I will try to evacuate them next turn. That is a problem since sea movement is slight and the Luftwaffe might sink everything anyway. Most of the UK forces did leave Holland before this happened.




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Post #: 35
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 9:37:06 PM   
thomasharvey


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T8 10/20/39 Here is the recent news. Note the cut off of resources through Narvik by Norway. The area circled needs to be taken by the Bot to restore the 2% reduction of replacements. The German units are not far away. Some Allied ships will support the defense. I don't recall how the Bot destroys the allied ships. It may be by air strike or by sending some surface ships up. Also note the multiple Bot attacks against Rotterdam. I am surprised it is still held. Maybe more artillery is needed by the Axis.




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< Message edited by thomasharvey -- 7/30/2021 9:38:28 PM >

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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 9:51:47 PM   
thomasharvey


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T8 10/20/39 Here are six more units called the second wave of emergency mobilization. They are resting near Paris to gain readiness.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 10:14:35 PM   
thomasharvey


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t8 10/20/39 This screen shot shows an air strike on an "industrial air unit" that represents strategic bombing. The Germans have 12 of these aircraft and the Japanese have 10. When one of these "industrial air units" is destroyed and removed from the map the Axis replacement production is reduced 2%. Over time the Axis is given several small production boosts to equal and exceed the loss of these air units. So, if the allies do not bomb them during the war the Axis will receive significant extra production. If the Axis does not put air cover over these targets and they are eliminated early, the Axis is reduced significantly in replacement production. The capture of factory symbols on the ground also result in loss of replacement production. If the Allies and Axis balance their attacks and defense it will result in historical production of equipment.

The attack shown indicates 4 biplanes destroyed. It will be a long war....

I set this system up because both sides have many strategic bombers and fighters with nothing to do. This gives them a mission and avoids improper use of 4 engine bombers and defensive fighters during the scenario. The Luftwaffe has many night fighters and the RAF have many all weather bombers. Bad weather has an impact on all air operations. The specialty aircraft have an advantage in bad weather over day aircraft. Now they all have jobs to do!




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< Message edited by thomasharvey -- 7/30/2021 10:17:21 PM >

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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/30/2021 10:28:07 PM   
thomasharvey


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T8 10/20/45 This screen shot shows shelling by the French fleet against German units attacking Rotterdam. Once Rotterdam is taken the Dutch quit. In addition you can see the UK forces in The Hague have evacuated with the help of the French fleet and some air cover. About 99% of the ground troops survived the trip despite many air strikes. Again the Bot did not have Stukas in the attacks and lost quite a few to flak and fighters. The allies also lost many fighters.

The Stukas can't be everywhere. There are some in Norway and some covering the Baltic to prevent suicidal gamers from sending in their ships there to shell and sink the German Navy, etc. The Allies must preserve the Royal Navy ships since they do not get replaced if sunk. They have a lot of invasions to support later.




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< Message edited by thomasharvey -- 7/30/2021 10:29:33 PM >

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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 1:29:29 AM   
thomasharvey


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T12 11/17/39 Rotterdam has fallen. The Dutch have quit.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 3:13:28 AM   
thomasharvey


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T13 11/24/39 Finally Narvik was taken by the Bot. Their replacements will be returned to 100%. Narvik denied them some production from T8 to T13.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 3:15:51 AM   
thomasharvey


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T13 11/24/39 Here is a picture of the front in France and Belgium. The Bot is getting close to Brussels. Some attacks back and forth there. I have to attack and retake some hexes eventually. That leaves me out of defensive position and then back and forth.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 5:25:41 AM   
thomasharvey


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T18 12/29/39 The Axis is slowly smashing its way towards Brussels and may take it this turn. Once I had to retake hexes, that allowed the Germans to have easier targets and again blast their way forward.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 2:20:46 PM   
thomasharvey


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T20 1/19/40 The French armored reserve has arrived! They are proud and brave but it does not look like Brussels will be able to hold much longer.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 2:23:19 PM   
thomasharvey


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T20 1/12/40 While the Maginot line is solid the line in Belgium is about to give way. All out assaults on both sides.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 2:37:20 PM   
thomasharvey


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T21 1/19/40 Here are the Axis infantry squad losses. My goal is 40,000. It appears the Axis Bot is well on its way to that level of loss. There is still much fighting to go in France. After that there is Yugoslavia and Greece.




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Post #: 46
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 2:51:18 PM   
thomasharvey


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T21 1/19/40 Here is a view of the collapse of Allied resistance in Belgium. Brussels will no longer hold. This is the start of the Allied turn. I will now try to evacuate back to France and form a new line to hold. As you can see the Bot has broken through in two places. The majority of the allied forces in Belgium is now rabble.

For the BEF, it is time to save the colours...




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 3:29:46 PM   
cathar1244

 

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Looks like the design breaks out division artillery as separate regiment-sized units.

I assume this was done to represent the effects of artillery in a more powerful manner?

Is Soviet divisional artillery also broken out, or left in "direct fire" mode?

Cheers

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Post #: 48
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 4:27:33 PM   
thomasharvey


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T21 1/19/40 Here is the new French line. Soon the French will stand alone. The Belgians will surrender when the doomed Brussels is taken and the BEF, what is left of it, will attempt to cross the English Channel to England next turn.




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Post #: 49
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 4:30:06 PM   
thomasharvey


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T21 1/19/40 Here is the China front. For the Mao units they must block and surround the Japanese forces and keep them off balance. Note the double icon showing partisan for the Mao units. That helps in their style of warfare.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 4:33:23 PM   
thomasharvey


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T21 1/19/40 Here are the Nationalist units. There are many more not visible. These units have a little more equipment including the 75 mm pack howitzer and a few mortars. Their double icon helps with artillery firepower. The best method for all Chinese units is to wait until the Japanese units are out of supply before attacking. In addition, they should have all retreat options prevented.




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 4:58:18 PM   
thomasharvey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Looks like the design breaks out division artillery as separate regiment-sized units.

I assume this was done to represent the effects of artillery in a more powerful manner?

Is Soviet divisional artillery also broken out, or left in "direct fire" mode?

Cheers



I gave a lot of thought and testing to this subject years ago. I came up with multiple solutions. Some units have artillery broken out in a separate unit, others have it stay in for direct fire mode and the third approach is to have a double icon with artillery as the secondary icon. In the scenario briefing here
is further explanation of the double icon:

16. Some non armored, Panzer, Armored Infantry, PGD and Marine units that have towed artillery equipment in the unit have a dual icon assigned. This allows the unit's artillery to have the same artillery operations as does a dedicated artillery unit with nothing but artillery equipment in the unit. However, on occasion they will refuse to attack as infantry. In that situation click on the unit display and reduce the range to zero. Then the unit will attack like an infantry unit but will still have the firepower of the artillery equipment in the unit. These same dual infantry/artillery units will be unable to act as defensive reserves to enter a hex in response to enemy attack. They will fire their artillery equipment in defense instead if dug in or set on reserve status. Without the dual icon the artillery equipment in the infantry unit would not nave artillery operations and therefore be at a big disadvantage. Finally, the dual icon units will act as artillery units and not take the target hex in the combat phase. They will have to take the hex on a subsequent phase. It is recommended non duel icon units be mixed in the attack to take the target hex in the combat phase.

When a double icon unit is broken down into multiple parts the range of the units default to the artillery range even if the parent unit was set at zero. The parts will need to be set back to zero.



As for the Russian units, the Guards Rifle divisions have the artillery broken out into a separate unit but the standard Soviet Rifle Division has the artillery equipment in the unit as direct fire. They do not have a double icon.

The armored units have no double icon and keep their artillery equipment in direct fire mode. They need to take the hex as do the Marine units. The Marine units have a double icon but it is amphibious which comes in handy in shallow water situations like a coral atoll. The Marines also need to take the hex. The double icon with artillery prevents taking the hex as part of the combat phase.

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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 6:40:30 PM   
cathar1244

 

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Thank you for the in-depth reply.

The double-icon using artillery as a secondary icon sounds like it could become mildly laborious. I also wonder how well the PO uses the double-icon units.

I like how you have the Soviet Guards units with artillery broken out but not the regular rifle units. Seems to reflect the availability of comms gear and trained forward observer personnel.

Side note, I also appreciate the take on the late war French order of battle. Regiment AOF-Somalie? Someone's been DIGGING for information, that one isn't well known.

Cheers

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Post #: 53
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 7:28:34 PM   
thomasharvey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Thank you for the in-depth reply.

The double-icon using artillery as a secondary icon sounds like it could become mildly laborious. I also wonder how well the PO uses the double-icon units.

I like how you have the Soviet Guards units with artillery broken out but not the regular rifle units. Seems to reflect the availability of comms gear and trained forward observer personnel.

Side note, I also appreciate the take on the late war French order of battle. Regiment AOF-Somalie? Someone's been DIGGING for information, that one isn't well known.

Cheers



There are relatively few double icon units in the overall order of battle. However, they all start out at a range of zero so they seem like ordinary infantry units. When they get fragmented you notice the artillery symbol for attack. I sometimes just leave it that way rather than change it. I rarely use them as an artillery unit for range fire but one could do that.

I thought like you, the Guards units could handle the skill required.

Alex and I many times use sources from the country of origin to be as accurate as possible. Alex even uses sources in German and Russian which requires translation. I used a French source for their order of battle.

The one source I am most impressed with came from Japan. It detailed all the Kamikaze strikes of WW2, the name of each unit, the actual date of the strike, how many aircraft in the strike and the type of aircraft in the strike. It also gives the base it came from and where the target was. (I have not mentioned this anywhere simply due to being busy with other details.) In the scenario I prefer event driven start dates rather than date driven because the course of the war in a scenario can always be different than historical timelines. So with the Kamikaze forces they start when the Allied player takes a hex in an area that triggered the Japanese to use them. This is only allowed from 1943 onward. They would not have used them early in the war. Once triggered they appear on the timeline the Japanese were able to produce and deploy them.

Thanks for your interest in details.

< Message edited by thomasharvey -- 7/31/2021 7:30:52 PM >

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Post #: 54
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 9:20:41 PM   
thomasharvey


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T22 1/26/40 Stukas on the Channel Coast!




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Post #: 55
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 9:48:57 PM   
thomasharvey


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T23 2/2/40 Belgium surrenders!




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Post #: 56
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 7/31/2021 10:14:14 PM   
thomasharvey


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T23 2/2/40 The Axis Bot is slowly breaking the French line. Paris is next for the Bot




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 8/1/2021 1:18:27 AM   
thomasharvey


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T25 2/16/40 Here is a view showing the Axis Bot closing in on Paris.




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Post #: 58
RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 8/1/2021 5:35:00 AM   
thomasharvey


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T29 3/16/40 The end is near for France




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RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis... - 8/1/2021 2:41:26 PM   
thomasharvey


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T30 3/23/40 Street fighting in Paris! Note the "French Quit" hex outside the city to save Paris from damage. The German 1st Cavalry Division is in one section of Paris which is now rubble due to fighting.




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