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Which level of difficulty do you prefer?

 
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Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/27/2021 11:16:34 AM   
Templer_12


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What level of difficulty do you usually play at?
Are the difficulty levels well balanced?
Post #: 1
RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/27/2021 12:00:24 PM   
AlbertN

 

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Human level of difficulty.

I feel at 100 (Normal) the AI will not cope on the longer run once one has mastered some the game.
At 110 or above it sports 'illecit' gameplay (As per the AI is allowed to do things that a human cannot), distorting the game experience.

The AI to me in these games it's always a form of tutorial and exploration to learn the basics of a game.


(in reply to Templer_12)
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RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/27/2021 12:51:45 PM   
carlkay58

 

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I always set the human side to all 100. That gives me a good handle of what the side is capable of if I play against a human.

The AI side is set at 110 if it is on the defensive and 120 if it is on the offensive. So the Axis at 120 and the Soviets at 110 in the 41 GC. Reverse that for Stalingrad to Berlin.

(in reply to AlbertN)
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RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/27/2021 2:46:27 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

...

I feel at 100 (Normal) the AI will not cope on the longer run once one has mastered some the game.
At 110 or above it sports 'illecit' gameplay (As per the AI is allowed to do things that a human cannot), distorting the game experience.

.....




this comes up a lot and is based on a misundestanding so lets unpick it a bit.

A good Soviet player will spend an age trying to estimate German capacity and intentions and will adjust their lines not just for the current turn but perhaps to reflect where they see the game as being in 3 turns. Equally they will read the front line terrain with a view to where to put blocking forces etc.

Now this is hugely judgemental and of course some people are better or worse at it. But its what we do.

Now there are 2 choices with the AI. Lots of situational scripts that it enacts to try and model this planning. It actually has a few (esp the German AI over when to pull back) but if this was its core mode of play then it becomes very frustrating (it is not going to be very subtle about when to choose a script) and very easy to exploit by triggering or not the behaviours.

So it looks at the current front line as it is now, and tries to build a defensive line that is hard to break as possible. Its not really terrain aware apart from where it has explicit instructions to defend certain hex types.

So at the best, you get something that can functionally move its units with a very rough idea of how to deploy to meet the current front. It simply can't have the ability to plan 3+ turns away and the approach is not to give it lots of scripts to follow (which tends to work well in tactical games).

In effect, without its movement bonus it is essentially locked into its current deployment with no real ability to anticipate. With its movement bonus it can react, at least retrospectively to a threat or a major change (& mostly a human player would have reacted before the problem emerged).

Now, play as you wish (of course), but the gains at 110 are essentially putting it back on a par with a human player, it lacks the ability to predict or pre plan so it gains an ability to react.

As to settings, carlkay is right, it does no harm to push the axis AI NM up to 125 for that extra bit of pain as this really improves the competence of the Rumanian formations.

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RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/28/2021 10:13:22 AM   
MarkShot


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I am at Normal, but I am a noob, and getting a run for my money!!! I will bump it up when winning is a sure thing.

WITE-2

WITW

_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
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RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/28/2021 10:58:19 PM   
KG_Chipaev

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/10/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

...

I feel at 100 (Normal) the AI will not cope on the longer run once one has mastered some the game.
At 110 or above it sports 'illecit' gameplay (As per the AI is allowed to do things that a human cannot), distorting the game experience.

.....




this comes up a lot and is based on a misundestanding so lets unpick it a bit.

A good Soviet player will spend an age trying to estimate German capacity and intentions and will adjust their lines not just for the current turn but perhaps to reflect where they see the game as being in 3 turns. Equally they will read the front line terrain with a view to where to put blocking forces etc.

Now this is hugely judgemental and of course some people are better or worse at it. But its what we do.

Now there are 2 choices with the AI. Lots of situational scripts that it enacts to try and model this planning. It actually has a few (esp the German AI over when to pull back) but if this was its core mode of play then it becomes very frustrating (it is not going to be very subtle about when to choose a script) and very easy to exploit by triggering or not the behaviours.

So it looks at the current front line as it is now, and tries to build a defensive line that is hard to break as possible. Its not really terrain aware apart from where it has explicit instructions to defend certain hex types.

So at the best, you get something that can functionally move its units with a very rough idea of how to deploy to meet the current front. It simply can't have the ability to plan 3+ turns away and the approach is not to give it lots of scripts to follow (which tends to work well in tactical games).

In effect, without its movement bonus it is essentially locked into its current deployment with no real ability to anticipate. With its movement bonus it can react, at least retrospectively to a threat or a major change (& mostly a human player would have reacted before the problem emerged).

Now, play as you wish (of course), but the gains at 110 are essentially putting it back on a par with a human player, it lacks the ability to predict or pre plan so it gains an ability to react.

As to settings, carlkay is right, it does no harm to push the axis AI NM up to 125 for that extra bit of pain as this really improves the competence of the Rumanian formations.


I understand but this essentially means that it is impossible to surprise the AI since they can redeploy their forces so quickly.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 6
RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/29/2021 1:42:04 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Yes you are right that the AI with the teleport ability makes several things useless in the game. Interdiction does nothing except against retreats and reserve commitments. Supply interference is the same thing - the badly supplied units are teleported into good supply zones while well supplied units are teleported into bad (or non-existent) supply areas. This makes playing the AI more challenging and, at times, very frustrating. However you do learn to be able to cope against that with tactics that will also work well against human players.

The main problem with the AI is that it is not able to advance quickly. It tends to be sluggish - attacking in one zone this turn and then moving their major attacks to another zone next turn. Once you get a feel for this you can manipulate the AI to your advantage.

(in reply to KG_Chipaev)
Post #: 7
RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/29/2021 1:54:29 AM   
MarkShot


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A discouraging discussion for a new player (me).

I hope when I reach the skill level you are discussing I find some way to put the challenge back.

I hope to admit that I was discouraged to not to find may user made scenarios for WITW and WITE-2. I don't PBEM.

I will know in time ...

_____________________________


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Post #: 8
RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/29/2021 5:26:39 AM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 343
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

A discouraging discussion for a new player (me).

I hope when I reach the skill level you are discussing I find some way to put the challenge back.

I hope to admit that I was discouraged to not to find may user made scenarios for WITW and WITE-2. I don't PBEM.

I will know in time ...


Multiplayer games are worth it. If you have never tried it, I would encourage you to give it a shot. You can have a better and more challenging game against a human player who can surprise you than against an AI, no matter how good it is (and the AI is actually quite good, but it is still an AI!). The only downside of playing a human player is you can't immediately go on to the next turn, because the other player has to do it.

(in reply to MarkShot)
Post #: 9
RE: Which level of difficulty do you prefer? - 7/29/2021 8:22:49 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10139
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG_Chipaev

...

I understand but this essentially means that it is impossible to surprise the AI since they can redeploy their forces so quickly.


I'd say the exact reverse, its far easier to surprise the AI than a human player as it can't anticipate etc, what it has is a faster reaction ability than a human player.

or in other words, you have a reasonable trade off between the 2 modes of play

which is not to say that vs the AI cannot be frustrating it can, both its movement and combat bonus (at 120+) can lead to odd situations. Best mindset is to look at the overall flow of the game, in the end you are looking for a set of values that give you an enjoyable game. Now that is a very personal bit of framing, based on your knowledge of the game, how much you want to pour into a turn, if you are happy using the various AI-assists, and just what you are looking for.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 7/29/2021 9:46:52 AM >


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