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Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) vs ITAKLinus (A)

 
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Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) vs IT... - 7/24/2021 4:23:08 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

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The Kido Butai has sailed into the misty sea and the Japanese Empire is ready to decide its destiny through blood and steel.

It's time for a new adventure! For the second time playing as Japan, I will be facing off against ITAKLinus, a highly experienced and capable player who has never lost a campaign. This may very well be the toughest challenge I have yet to face, which is just the way I like it. Taking the Japanese in a Scenario 1 game, I will see how much damage I can inflict in the early heady days before buckling down for the inevitable steamroller. If I last past August 1945 I will be more than pleased with the result.

To be honest I haven't really formulated my strategy beyond what I will do in the first couple of months, which will involve a very aggressive early push in the SRA and the Pacific perimeter. This time I am going with a classic Pearl Harbor start and will look to invade key islands such as Wake and Midway on the first day of the war. Will also push for an early conquest in the Aleutians area. Beyond that the focus is on the SRA while I observe my opponent's reactions and plan my next moves.

< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 7/24/2021 11:46:23 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Where the Chrysanthemum's Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) ... - 7/24/2021 4:34:00 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

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We have already played the first turn. I will give more of a comprehensive update on that later but in the meantime let me post the critical Pearl Harbor result.

Before the airstrike the midget subs carried out their mission. 4 of them were lost without penetrating the harbor's defenses, but the crew of Ha-22 successfully survived heavy depth charging from two patrol craft to put a damaging torpedo hit into BB West Virginia's side.

The airstrike itself was pretty good I think. Three battleships are confirmed sunk (one with a magazine explosion), numerous cruisers were damaged, and some destroyers were sunk as well. On the flipside, I am not sure why but flak was pretty deadly against my aircraft (I lost 16 Vals and 10 Kates), significantly more so than the half a dozen or so tests I carried out before I sent the turn. The question I am pondering now is whether I should go for a second strike or call it a day. What would you do?






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RE: Where the Chrysanthemum's Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) ... - 7/24/2021 8:04:10 AM   
RangerJoe


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Call it a day, every American fighter will be on CAP, the AAA is alerted, every ship capable of combat will be out for blood.

That said, you can go back slowly and maybe by stopping about 10 hexes away you can attack any ships coming out to try for a surface engagement.

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(in reply to DesertWolf101)
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RE: Where the Chrysanthemum's Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) ... - 7/24/2021 11:49:25 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Call it a day, every American fighter will be on CAP, the AAA is alerted, every ship capable of combat will be out for blood.

That said, you can go back slowly and maybe by stopping about 10 hexes away you can attack any ships coming out to try for a surface engagement.


I suspect you are right. On the one hand I heavily damaged many of his battleships and it seems like they are now vulnerable to being finished off with further strikes, but on the other hand I am pretty certain the island's airfields are still in operation and it didn't look like I got many of his fighters with my strikes. In other words going in again could be pretty bloody....

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemum's Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) ... - 7/24/2021 12:16:29 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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Lot's of action on the first day beyond the Hawaiian chain...

SRA

Unfortunately, right off the bat I lost two loaded medium sized transports (a Toho class and an Ehime class) to Dutch subs in the South China Sea. As luck would have it, one of these transports was carrying part of the 25th Army with General Yamashita onboard who promptly sank like a fish, being overburdened with his medals and sword. Sucks to lose a commander with such high ratings on the first day. That's not even the end of it, as the second transport was carrying the 22nd Air Flotilla to Kuching and once again its commander also ended up drowning!

In any case, that's the bad news, the good news is the rest of the invasion convoys made it to their destinations pretty intact. Landings occurred between Singora and Kota Bharu, at Kuching where coastal guns caused some damage but didn't sink anything (yet), and at Manado. Heavy Japanese air raids struck Georgetown and Kota Bharu, Hong Kong, Singapore where I inflicted considerable damage to shipping but lost about a dozen Nell bombers due to an uncoordinated attack, and Manila where significant damage was inflicted including sinking 13 submarines and heavily damaging about half a dozen other ones.

Central/South Pacific

Japanese landings also occurred in four other key areas across the Pacific. These include Wake and Midway which were promptly taken, and Guam and Rabaul which should fall tomorrow. Some transports did take damage from CD guns at Wake and Midway and off course a toll was paid in lost squads but the Wildcat detachment at Wake and the Catalina squadron at Midway were caught and destroyed on the ground. Overall, I lost 54 aircraft to exactly 100 Allied aircraft lost on the first day.

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
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RE: Where the Chrysanthemum's Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) ... - 7/26/2021 12:44:30 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

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December 8, 1941

Central Pacific

I'm glad I didn't go for a second day strike at Pearl, as the airfields were definitely not closed and there was a beefy CAP in place of some 70 fighters. Instead I opted for a sweep which did pretty well in cutting down those CAP numbers. Approximately 30 enemy fighters were destroyed (and many others damaged) for the loss of 3 Zeros and 2 pilots. In the meantime, Francesco's warships sailed out of Pearl in multiple directions, whether it was to escape or to hunt the KB down, I am not sure, but my subs took some shots at them to no effect. None of them ending up close to the Japanese carriers.

A nice bonus from the sweep was the confirmation that BB California has sunk as the Zero pilots saw it slide under the water.

North Pacific

Japanese forces came ashore at Umnak Island, Dutch Harbor, and Cold Bay. I will start backfilling the rest of the Aleutian chain from here. The CD guns at Dutch Harbor were brutal though, I will probably lose half a dozen merchant ships in this op. I could have done a better job organizing it in terms of ship selection and amphib landing duration but I sacrificed some of the details in the interest of speed.

SRA/Other

Nothing too unusual to note elsewhere. Rabaul and Guam were taken (lost a small transport to grounding in the latter), and further to the west Manado, Kuching, Kota Bharu were seized. I landed some troops at Miri and Brunei, just to have them in position and ready, but I won't actually order the attack to take these oil fields until I free up enough fighters for a strong defense.

Betty/Nell strikes from Formosa hunted down scurrying enemy merchant ships from Hong Kong, but I also took some damage when three cargo ships (thankfully empty) were taken down by torpedo lugging Catalinas as they finished unloading an air support battalion at Batan Island.

The POW/Repulse appear to be hanging out just out of range of my Netties, waiting for their opportunity to strike. Now to plan out how to handle this threat.

Air losses for the day are at 39 Allied to 20 Japanese. Most of the Japanese losses are due to some well thought out Buffalo sweeps in Malaya.







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 7/31/2021 8:33:30 AM >

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/26/2021 2:06:03 AM   
mind_messing

 

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Excited for this match-up. Your earlier games certainly caught my interest.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

TFor the second time playing as Japan, I will be facing off against ITAKLinus, a highly experienced and capable player who has never lost a campaign.


That's a curious titbit. Did it come from ITAK directly?

On the Pearl strike, what was the altitude you were operating at? I sandboxed various things a while back (including strapping 60kg bombs onto the Zeros for extra hits) and I think 7-8k was the optimum altitude to avoid the masses of land and naval .50 cal fire.

On the Pearl strategy overall, what are you looking to gain?

If you're thinking about taking Hawaii, or harvesting VP's then you'll want to stick around and sweep out the fighters.

If it's the perimeter you're wanting secured, then I'd start looking to shift south to screen Marshalls, Gilberts, Solomon's and Santa Cruz/New Caledonia ops. A favoured approach of mine is driving the KB down this way to get New Caledonia early.

Any house rules? If strategic bombing is allowed, then I'd look to round of KB's run south with some firebombing of Australian industry, to be followed up with Nell raids from New Caledonia in due course. You'll net some nice permanent VP's for the rest of the game, and draw Allied fighter strength to Oz.

It's also worth thinking about *how* you want to fight your war, as this will factor into considerations around engineering efforts, industry and aircraft R&D. What course are you considering to get to 1945? Do you want the big, trademarked "decisive battle" in 1943 that gets you through to '45, or are you considering the long, bitter grind to get you there?

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 7
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/26/2021 12:12:52 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:



That's a curious titbit. Did it come from ITAK directly?



When he first approached me about playing against each other he detailed the pbems he has had thus far and to my best recollection none of them were losses. He has a lot of receipts too since he has done AARs on all of them in the European forums.

quote:



On the Pearl strike, what was the altitude you were operating at? I sandboxed various things a while back (including strapping 60kg bombs onto the Zeros for extra hits) and I think 7-8k was the optimum altitude to avoid the masses of land and naval .50 cal fire.



I went in with at 10k with Vals and Judys. I did not set the Zeros to strafe or bomb.

quote:



On the Pearl strategy overall, what are you looking to gain?

If you're thinking about taking Hawaii, or harvesting VP's then you'll want to stick around and sweep out the fighters.

If it's the perimeter you're wanting secured, then I'd start looking to shift south to screen Marshalls, Gilberts, Solomon's and Santa Cruz/New Caledonia ops. A favoured approach of mine is driving the KB down this way to get New Caledonia early.



I am keeping my options open this time - to be honest I haven't had time to really think through a plan past first phase yet. For now I am looking to inflict some serious damage on the enemy fleet(s), seize the SRA, and take key terrain for follow up operations.

quote:



Any house rules? If strategic bombing is allowed, then I'd look to round of KB's run south with some firebombing of Australian industry, to be followed up with Nell raids from New Caledonia in due course. You'll net some nice permanent VP's for the rest of the game, and draw Allied fighter strength to Oz.



No house rules against strategic bombing outside China so for that and other reasons a KB cruise down to Australia is certainly in the cards.

quote:



It's also worth thinking about *how* you want to fight your war, as this will factor into considerations around engineering efforts, industry and aircraft R&D. What course are you considering to get to 1945? Do you want the big, trademarked "decisive battle" in 1943 that gets you through to '45, or are you considering the long, bitter grind to get you there?



I will take a decisive battle in early 1943, preferably 1942 if I can get one. More likely I am looking to last as long as possible into 1945. I am prioritizing the final years.

(in reply to mind_messing)
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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/26/2021 12:22:11 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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Due to real life commitments, I haven't had the time to set my R&D in order until now. The last couple of days the R&D factories sat idling by with repairs off. Oh well, a couple of game days is surely not the end of the world. So having found some time to set my R&D, this is what I have decided on in terms of numbers of factories per researched aircraft:

12 Ki-84
10 Sam
6 George
4 Ki-83
4 Shinden
3 Judy
3 Jill
3 Grace
8 Zero
4 Peggy
2 Francis
4 Tojo
3 Oscar
3 J1N1-S
2 Ki-45d
2 P1Y2-S
2 Ki-102c Randy

I aim to add factories to the Ki-83 and Shinden in the latter years as and when they get freed up. I expect most of those to come from the Zero line where I am going big to get the M8 as soon as possible. Biggest struggle in terms of decision making here was with regards to night fighters. I haven't had the chance to experiment with them yet so the end result for night fighters is really a guestimate.

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/26/2021 3:19:57 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

When he first approached me about playing against each other he detailed the pbems he has had thus far and to my best recollection none of them were losses. He has a lot of receipts too since he has done AARs on all of them in the European forums.


Interesting. I would have been piqued at engaging in some Nemo-esque psyops if it had came from him. Feed the conceit and build overconfidence.

quote:

I am keeping my options open this time - to be honest I haven't had time to really think through a plan past first phase yet. For now I am looking to inflict some serious damage on the enemy fleet(s), seize the SRA, and take key terrain for follow up operations.


That seems sensible.

quote:

I will take a decisive battle in early 1943, preferably 1942 if I can get one. More likely I am looking to last as long as possible into 1945. I am prioritizing the final years.


Interesting, that will impact on R&D choices, comments on that below...

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/26/2021 3:33:09 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Due to real life commitments, I haven't had the time to set my R&D in order until now. The last couple of days the R&D factories sat idling by with repairs off. Oh well, a couple of game days is surely not the end of the world. So having found some time to set my R&D, this is what I have decided on in terms of numbers of factories per researched aircraft:

12 Ki-84
10 Sam
6 George
4 Ki-83
4 Shinden
3 Judy
3 Jill
3 Grace
8 Zero
4 Peggy
2 Francis
4 Tojo
3 Oscar
3 J1N1-S
2 Ki-45d
2 P1Y2-S
2 Ki-102c Randy

I aim to add factories to the Ki-83 and Shinden in the latter years as and when they get freed up. I expect most of those to come from the Zero line where I am going big to get the M8 as soon as possible. Biggest struggle in terms of decision making here was with regards to night fighters. I haven't had the chance to experiment with them yet so the end result for night fighters is really a guestimate.




Some thoughts from me (not sure if you've tied this in, but even if so, food for thought).

Big investment on the Sam and the '84 gets a thumbs up from me. Going George over Jack also a smart move.

On the Zero, what's the merit in the M8 vs the 5c? I've found the 5c the best all-round model, and arrives early enough that you can repurpose R&D factories for other aircraft. My worry long-term would that you'd be bringing forward an airframe that will soon be eclipsed by the Sam.

Not a fan of the Tojo, suggest you ditch it completely , but that's something of a ccontroversial opinion on here.

For night fighters, ditch the Randy-C. It arrives too late and the radar is stuck to a 10/45 activation date. The IJN night fighters do the bulk of the work. The Zero NF dies in droves, the Ivring will be your mainstain for the war so build plenty of them.P1Y2 might be a good choice, it certainly has the radar and a big gun. As with comments from Lowpe and others, don't depend on NF alone as they just dont cut it.

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/26/2021 9:39:30 PM   
Lowpe


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Nice raid on Pearl. I too have used Zeroes in a 9k air bombing raid to devastate the Cat fleet...they get a bonus to damage on day one, and no flak losses. Only usually have one squadron flying escort.

Shame about Force Z.

You have time on r&d, especially for the late game moves...

Not a fan of Randy C, see m-m comments.

Tojo are fine, and they counter a lot really well in 42 and 43 and are still valuable even into 45 in limited roles. Plus you haven't nearly gone overboard on them.

George vs Jack...I like them both. Different uses for me at least.

I guess that is Peggy T?

If you thought the game was going to go the distance, you could probably pull off a jet move if you plan for it.

A6M8 I think is an underrated plane...if you can get them early enough as they might give you the edge in a pre-Corsair CV clash.

I usually assign one factory to Dinah NF and Zero NF. The Dinah to convert squadrons a little early and open up the NF tree for them, and the Zero to resize some of the Irvings to something more reasonable than 18...I think I go 24.

An interesting choice for NF would be to go Myrt...it punches well above its stat line, although Frances is probably best.

Avoiding the Tony line probably for the best.

Good luck.












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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 1:54:00 AM   
Timotheus

 

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"a highly experienced and capable player who has never lost a campaign."

Please don't break his psyche too much, don't make him suffer. Make it quick.

Nippon autovictory in 1941, invade New York

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 7:34:46 AM   
George Patton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

I will be facing off against ITAKLinus, a highly experienced and capable player who has never lost a campaign.


Hi Desert Wolf. I will follow your match and both the AARs. I know Linus very well. We are on the same european forum and I played against him. The game stopped on november 1942 for some reasons, first of them were the autovictory unavoidable on 1.1.1943. I suggested to continue playing but he refused.
I know him well as player, because I'm following in other AARs.
He's an incredible player. The best skills are the speed with which moves its forces and the logistics, in which he is a master. He plans months ahead. As allied he played only for a couples of months because his opponents resigned after loosing a lot of assets by january or february 1942.
He will be a very tough opponent.

Be careful because he will not hesitate to sacrifice its forces, especially ships, to slow down your advance, particularly in the DEI area.

Good luck!


< Message edited by George Patton -- 7/27/2021 7:43:12 AM >

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 1:10:15 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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Thank you m_m and Lowpe for your feedback. Some responses:

1) On the M8 vs 5c, I am weighing up the M8s slight advantage in speed and considerable edge in maneuverability over the 5c's edge in firepower and range. The 5c of course also arrives a lot earlier. In my only previous game as Japan I never got to a point where I had them to use them but based on stats and my gameplay I lean more towards the M8.

2) I personally am a big fan of the Tojo. It served me very well up until my game ended in late 1943. I won't go huge on it with R&D, but it definitely has a place in my arsenal.

3) Yup, Peggy T is what I meant

4) Some good stuff on night fighters, I have modified my R&D on NFs accordingly and introduced a bit more diversity.

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 1:13:29 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

"a highly experienced and capable player who has never lost a campaign."

Please don't break his psyche too much, don't make him suffer. Make it quick.

Nippon autovictory in 1941, invade New York


Thanks friend, but I think you have a lot more faith in my capabilities than I do!

(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 16
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 1:20:04 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: George Patton

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

I will be facing off against ITAKLinus, a highly experienced and capable player who has never lost a campaign.


Hi Desert Wolf. I will follow your match and both the AARs. I know Linus very well. We are on the same european forum and I played against him. The game stopped on november 1942 for some reasons, first of them were the autovictory unavoidable on 1.1.1943. I suggested to continue playing but he refused.
I know him well as player, because I'm following in other AARs.
He's an incredible player. The best skills are the speed with which moves its forces and the logistics, in which he is a master. He plans months ahead. As allied he played only for a couples of months because his opponents resigned after loosing a lot of assets by january or february 1942.
He will be a very tough opponent.

Be careful because he will not hesitate to sacrifice its forces, especially ships, to slow down your advance, particularly in the DEI area.

Good luck!



Thanks for that context Patton. He will definitely be a very tough opponent. I do enjoy the challenge though, and I am sure I will learn a lot from our game.

(in reply to George Patton)
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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 1:42:33 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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December 9, 1941

Central Pacific

The KB was prevented from launching strikes today due to adverse weather. Great, a precious day gone to waste...

SRA

With forward basing for the Netties largely in place and with my fighter squadrons now positioned close enough to provide the necessary cover, an amphibious assault on Mersing is in the cards. I believe most of Francesco's naval assets have pulled back, but I am definitely still running a significant risk here and could be punished for my daring.

In the meantime I am starting to hunt down some enemy ships and warships with my cruiser/destroyer task forces, mostly around the Celebes Sea and north of Luzon. A couple of British destroyers that tried to approach my transports were intercepted and sunk, as well as some nice xAPs, an AMC, and various xAKs. One of my heavy cruiser task forces met the Houston in the Philippine Sea but the fight was disappointingly inconclusive. For his part Francisco is fighting back with Catalina strikes (with torpedoes), knocking out a small AP, an APD, and some cargo ships (all empty). A similar attempt with Swordfish near Mersing was intercepted however and six string bags were shot down.

China

In China I caught and mauled two Chinese Corps around the map as well as a significant army at Nanchang. I feinted towards Kiukiang drawing Francisco's forces in, only to time a reversal of troops into Nanchang with other forces arriving in time for a deliberate attack the next turn. The result is below, with several more battles looking to take place in the next few turns.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 2:00:48 PM   
Evoken

 

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Both of you are really good players , good luck!

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Post #: 19
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 3:02:17 PM   
mind_messing

 

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From: Glasgow, Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Thank you m_m and Lowpe for your feedback. Some responses:

1) On the M8 vs 5c, I am weighing up the M8s slight advantage in speed and considerable edge in maneuverability over the 5c's edge in firepower and range. The 5c of course also arrives a lot earlier. In my only previous game as Japan I never got to a point where I had them to use them but based on stats and my gameplay I lean more towards the M8.

2) I personally am a big fan of the Tojo. It served me very well up until my game ended in late 1943. I won't go huge on it with R&D, but it definitely has a place in my arsenal.

3) Yup, Peggy T is what I meant

4) Some good stuff on night fighters, I have modified my R&D on NFs accordingly and introduced a bit more diversity.


Some further food for thought:

1) With R&D, my thinking tend to be along the line of focusing on the real "game changers" for the IJ air war. To that end, I think focusing on what the big "step changes" airframes rather than incremental improvements are best. The A6M2 to A6M5c falls in the "good enough" category of incremental improvement. The big step change is the Sam/Shiden. To that end, I like to limit myself to the 5c, get it at a decent time and then put the effort to add to the existing Sam/Shinden R&D to get that ball out the door.

2) I'd question what place it will have in a game where there's such a big investment in the Ki-84. If you were going for an all-out '42 auto-vic campaign then I'd see the value, but if you're looking to do something different then I'd argue for skipping the airframe. The '84 is all round much better, and with your investment in R&D for it, the Tojo won't really have all that much time in the sun. At that point I wonder what the point is and if you're not better using the factories for something else.

3) The Peggy T is one arm of IJA anti-shipping. Any plans for using the Lily dive bomber varients?

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/27/2021 3:38:28 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


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I see very big research efforts on KI-84a and i wonder if it isn't overkill at some point.

When i ran my analysis and simulations it averaged:

01 = 12/09/43
02 = 10/20/43
03 = 10/01/43
04 = 08/31/43
05 = 08/11/43
06 = 08/01/43
07 = 07/27/43
08 = 07/19/43
09 = 07/12/43
10 = 07/07/43
11 = 07/03/43
12 = 07/01/43

I chose 8. I can see going to 9 or 10 to guard against some bad dice rolls but 12 seems a little overboard.

Just my experience. I could be all wrong. DYODD.

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 5:12:50 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken

Both of you are really good players , good luck!


Thanks!

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 22
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 5:23:05 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Some further food for thought:

1) With R&D, my thinking tend to be along the line of focusing on the real "game changers" for the IJ air war. To that end, I think focusing on what the big "step changes" airframes rather than incremental improvements are best. The A6M2 to A6M5c falls in the "good enough" category of incremental improvement. The big step change is the Sam/Shiden. To that end, I like to limit myself to the 5c, get it at a decent time and then put the effort to add to the existing Sam/Shinden R&D to get that ball out the door.

2) I'd question what place it will have in a game where there's such a big investment in the Ki-84. If you were going for an all-out '42 auto-vic campaign then I'd see the value, but if you're looking to do something different then I'd argue for skipping the airframe. The '84 is all round much better, and with your investment in R&D for it, the Tojo won't really have all that much time in the sun. At that point I wonder what the point is and if you're not better using the factories for something else.

3) The Peggy T is one arm of IJA anti-shipping. Any plans for using the Lily dive bomber varients?


1) Sounds reasonable to me.
2) I find that having the Tojo even for only those several months before Frank shows up as potentially invaluable. It's also a service 1 fighter that I would continue to rely on in certain sitations for the rest of the game.
3) I plan on building the Lily dive bomber but it arrives early enough that I don't plan on allocating R&D for it. With the Peggy T I also want to get it as soon as possible to be able to train IJA on torpedo attack. With dive bombing I can use existing level bombers for that so the need is not as acute.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 23
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 5:30:22 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 11/26/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RADM.Yamaguchi

I see very big research efforts on KI-84a and i wonder if it isn't overkill at some point.

When i ran my analysis and simulations it averaged:

01 = 12/09/43
02 = 10/20/43
03 = 10/01/43
04 = 08/31/43
05 = 08/11/43
06 = 08/01/43
07 = 07/27/43
08 = 07/19/43
09 = 07/12/43
10 = 07/07/43
11 = 07/03/43
12 = 07/01/43

I chose 8. I can see going to 9 or 10 to guard against some bad dice rolls but 12 seems a little overboard.

Just my experience. I could be all wrong. DYODD.


I don't know enough about the data on this one way or another, but there are three overall reasons why I went 12. These are:
1) Ki-84 is a top priority for me, I am hedging against bad luck and creating some opportunity to take advantage of some good luck with 12 factories.
2) I am actually looking to get the Ki-84r as quickly as possible. I plan on transitioning 2 factories to Ki-84a but keep 10 factories going for the Ki-84r. With 10 factories, the Ki-84r will arrive very fast.
3) I will need to produce the Ki-84r in large numbers, having many factories already built up when it arrives allows me to transition immediately into mass production.

(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 24
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 2:10:45 PM   
mind_messing

 

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From: Glasgow, Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

2) I find that having the Tojo even for only those several months before Frank shows up as potentially invaluable. It's also a service 1 fighter that I would continue to rely on in certain sitations for the rest of the game.




That's perfectly fair, I am something of a prophet in the wilderness with my dislike for the Tojo.

If there's a airframe to fill the role of the SR1 IJA fighter then it has to be the Oscar. Granted, it won't keep up with later Allied airframes, but it makes up for this with the fantastic MVR ratings that can be properly leveraged into real success even against later Allied airframes.

I will refer you to TheElf's comments here.


quote:

3) I plan on building the Lily dive bomber but it arrives early enough that I don't plan on allocating R&D for it. With the Peggy T I also want to get it as soon as possible to be able to train IJA on torpedo attack. With dive bombing I can use existing level bombers for that so the need is not as acute.


Pragmatic.

Any plans for the Nick?

I see some success with fighters/fighter bombers on low naval attack.

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 25
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 8:32:45 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 21732
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RADM.Yamaguchi

I see very big research efforts on KI-84a and i wonder if it isn't overkill at some point.

When i ran my analysis and simulations it averaged:

01 = 12/09/43
02 = 10/20/43
03 = 10/01/43
04 = 08/31/43
05 = 08/11/43
06 = 08/01/43
07 = 07/27/43
08 = 07/19/43
09 = 07/12/43
10 = 07/07/43
11 = 07/03/43
12 = 07/01/43

I chose 8. I can see going to 9 or 10 to guard against some bad dice rolls but 12 seems a little overboard.

Just my experience. I could be all wrong. DYODD.


Difference between 8 and 12 for the R version is night and day -- 12.5 days per month acceleration boost!

(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 26
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 8:34:54 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 21732
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

2) I find that having the Tojo even for only those several months before Frank shows up as potentially invaluable. It's also a service 1 fighter that I would continue to rely on in certain sitations for the rest of the game.





The Tojo is a very handy plane to have if the Allies make an all out fight of it early. And I think every JFB should plan on that, because you can adjust easily to a Sir Robin but you can't adjust to an early fighter without costing a lot of supplies.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/28/2021 8:35:11 PM >

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 27
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 10:46:50 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3255
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

2) I find that having the Tojo even for only those several months before Frank shows up as potentially invaluable. It's also a service 1 fighter that I would continue to rely on in certain sitations for the rest of the game.





The Tojo is a very handy plane to have if the Allies make an all out fight of it early. And I think every JFB should plan on that, because you can adjust easily to a Sir Robin but you can't adjust to an early fighter without costing a lot of supplies.


I've always felt that the short-range on it really limits it's usefulness, especially outside of Burma.

An 8 hex range is fine for as confined a theatre as Burma, but largely limits the plane to a defensive role in other more expansive theatres. Challenging to use it in the Central Pacific, for example.

I think I'd rather have more Oscars that can be multi-role and lean on the Nicks (which you will likely build anyway to make use of the dedicated FB squadrons) for to back them up rather than spend R&D on a plane that has narrow use (both temporally and geographically) until the Frank appears in numbers.

The other consideration is that the Oscar has some value as a massed kamikaze airframe (not as good as the Frank however) while the Tojo doesn't really.

That said, happy to accept I'm the dissenting opinion on this one!



(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 28
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 11:06:44 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 12547
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

2) I find that having the Tojo even for only those several months before Frank shows up as potentially invaluable. It's also a service 1 fighter that I would continue to rely on in certain sitations for the rest of the game.





The Tojo is a very handy plane to have if the Allies make an all out fight of it early. And I think every JFB should plan on that, because you can adjust easily to a Sir Robin but you can't adjust to an early fighter without costing a lot of supplies.


I've always felt that the short-range on it really limits it's usefulness, especially outside of Burma.

An 8 hex range is fine for as confined a theatre as Burma, but largely limits the plane to a defensive role in other more expansive theatres. Challenging to use it in the Central Pacific, for example.

I think I'd rather have more Oscars that can be multi-role and lean on the Nicks (which you will likely build anyway to make use of the dedicated FB squadrons) for to back them up rather than spend R&D on a plane that has narrow use (both temporally and geographically) until the Frank appears in numbers.

The other consideration is that the Oscar has some value as a massed kamikaze airframe (not as good as the Frank however) while the Tojo doesn't really.

That said, happy to accept I'm the dissenting opinion on this one!


If the first Tojo that comes is good enough, they may be no reason to research farther along the line but then there is no problem building that one as you see how the game develops.

It also depends upon the scenario and the engine that it uses. If it uses a special engine in common with the Helen and you are not going to build any Helens, then I can see not building the Tojo at all nor any of those engines.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 29
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 11:26:42 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Any plans for the Nick?

I see some success with fighters/fighter bombers on low naval attack.


Not R&D wise no, but I will most certainly build it in large numbers. Given its flexibility, I find the Nick to be an extremely important weapon in Japan's arsenal. Especially so in 1942 but really in some roles (I imagine) for the duration of the conflict.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 30
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