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Annoying posting habits... - 7/14/2001 9:26:00 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline
Seems that our little haven form the Trolls and flamers has been taking a few shots lately. We offer the Art of Wargaming forum for "anything goes" discussion, but I am getting fed up with trolling and personal attacks on the game forums. CUT IT OUT! THink what you want, email them privately, but we don't care what you think about the personality of other posters. If you have complaint about someones language or use of terms.. SEND ME A PRIVATE EMAIL OR MESSAGE. Handle these things OFFLINE and privately. That is why I am Admin to handle such things. This board has an enviable reputation for unbridled, but respectful discussion. PLEASE help me keep it that way. [ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]

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Post #: 1
- 7/14/2001 9:33:00 PM   
Mark Ezra

 

Posts: 340
Joined: 12/29/2000
From: Jasmin Ranch, Acton CA
Status: offline
Thank you, Paul. I began to think the forum had changed it's focus. I'm happy to see Matrix Admin stepping up!

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All Hail Marx and Lennon

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 2
- 7/14/2001 9:46:00 PM   
gators

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 5/16/2001
Status: offline
Hear, hear! what about my gebirgjager?

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"It ain't the gun, Sonny. It's the operator" Bob the Nailer

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 3
- 7/14/2001 9:50:00 PM   
Panzer Capta


Posts: 268
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Bedford, NH, USA
Status: offline
This Forum has a reputation for being friendly and a wonderful source of gaming knowledge, general historical knowledge and resources. Difference of opinion is simply human nature but should be handled in a tactful way. Constructive critisms is wonderful....we learn from that. Personal critism, however, is another matter entirely and should be handled in private.

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(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 4
- 7/14/2001 10:09:00 PM   
parusski


Posts: 5167
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline
Paul is correct. Not only should flamers go elsewhere, we should not respond to them. I myself was responding to our most recent antagonist. Let's just stick to the issues of WAW. Thanks Paul.

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"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 5
- 7/14/2001 10:14:00 PM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
I've been guilty a time or two and shall attempt to restrain myself in the future (though it is often very difficult). Thanks for the reminder, Paul. I do have one question, though: What is "troll" or "trolling."

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Retreat is NOT an option.



(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 6
- 7/14/2001 10:26:00 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
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Hmmmm I havent yet seen anything wrong with Matrix forums, maybe I should count myself lucky. I have only been on Art Of Wargming a bit and only recently. But its my vote that we shouldnt specifically make a place here on Matrix Forums for those that will vent rant and behave poorly. Being a parent I know the value of not spoiling a child. Over indulgence breeds the problem. I would not miss it if ART of Wargaming was removed if it has attracted to many people that cant respect civil behaviour. Unbridled unwanted ill stated unfriendly opinions should not be given a blank cheque to write on. Freedom of speech is not permission to ignore behaviour that would get you a smack in the back of the head from your mother. Hmmm used that Freedom of speech phrase, I just know someone is going to rant now.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 7
- 7/14/2001 11:02:00 PM   
GrinningDwarf

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 11/3/2000
From: Payne's Creek, CA USA
Status: offline
quote:

Freedom of speech is not permission to ignore behaviour that would get you a smack in the back of the head from your mother.
Bravo! That sounds like a good sig line, too! Mind if I borrow it on other forums?

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Sergeant to new replacements on the line: I may not have time to tell you to duck, but if you see me dive for the ground you might want to think about why I'm doing it.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 8
- 7/15/2001 12:00:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline
Just like Big Brother, we patrol this site and watch. For that reason I have had to shut down two topics this week. You have every right to disagree. That is what a forum is for..to present your point of view and then defend it. But personal attacks, "ad hominem" arguments and uncouth digs will not be allowed. If I catch you, I will shut you down. :eek: Keep the arguments civil and gentlemanly. Save the fighting for the game. Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 9
- 7/15/2001 12:22:00 AM   
steel

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 6/9/2000
From: Finland, Helsinki
Status: offline
Thank you, Paul. steel :D

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Post #: 10
- 7/15/2001 1:29:00 AM   
parusski


Posts: 5167
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline
Bravo Wild Bill. Keep up the good work.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 11
- 7/15/2001 1:56:00 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Panzer Captain: This Forum has a reputation for being friendly and a wonderful source of gaming knowledge, general historical knowledge and resources. Difference of opinion is simply human nature but should be handled in a tactful way. Constructive critisms is wonderful....we learn from that. Personal critism, however, is another matter entirely and should be handled in private.
Well put. Besides the books I've read on the subject, I'm sure I've learned enough from this forum, and in the 4 years I've been playing SP to hold my own in a discussion with someone who holds a history degree in WW2 era weapons. If you evaluated all the messages posted here, the diamonds outnumber the lumps of coal by a wide margin. Although this board is moderated, the character and quality of the community here almost makes it unnecessary...though I'm sure WB, Paul and David could 'tell us some good stories'. ;)

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Jim NSB

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 12
- 7/15/2001 2:09:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline
The best forum site I've ever been on..creme de la creme, right here. Can't beat it. Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 13
- 7/15/2001 2:32:00 AM   
Bing

 

Posts: 1366
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Gaylord, MI, USA
Status: offline
Said it before, will say it again: Compared to other forums I've been on the people here seem to be actually normal. Some of that can be attributed to moderator control, but I think for the most part stepping in hasn't been necessary. I agree that ignoring real flame postings is the first good idea on the topic, the other is as Paul has pointed out that the flamer be removed, talked to in private, and if really necessary barred from the board. That's an extreme step, but we found it was necessary on the old Gary Grigsby Pacific War mailing list. Not frequently, but it did happen a time or two over a couple of years. I have enjoyed the level of discussion and the friendly and prompt help on this forum, in those terms it is the best I've encountered since starting computer wargaming. I quit more than one forum because of what Paul and David and Bill have mentioned. Thanks all for a great board. I mean it. Bing

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"For Those That Fought For It, Freedom Has a Taste And A Meaning The Protected Will Never Know. " -
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 14
- 7/15/2001 7:37:00 AM   
Greg McCarty

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 6/15/2000
From: woodbury,mn,usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: Seems that our little haven form the Trolls and flamers has been taking a few shots lately. We offer the Art of Wargaming forum for "anything goes" discussion, but I am getting fed up with trolling and personal attacks on the game forums. CUT IT OUT! THink what you want, email them privately, but we don't care what you think about the personality of other posters. If you have complaint about someones language or use of terms.. SEND ME A PRIVATE EMAIL OR MESSAGE. Handle these things OFFLINE and privately. That is why I am Admin to handle such things. This board has an enviable reputation for unbridled, but respectful discussion. PLEASE help me keep it that way. [ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]
--------------------------------------------- Point well taken.

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Greg.

It is better to die on your feet
than to live on your knees.

--Zapata

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 15
- 7/15/2001 8:37:00 PM   
GrinningDwarf

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 11/3/2000
From: Payne's Creek, CA USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Warrior: [QB]What is "troll" or "trolling."
Since no one has gotten around to answering you yet: A troll is someone who makes provacative statements simply for the sake of stirring up trouble.

_____________________________

Sergeant to new replacements on the line: I may not have time to tell you to duck, but if you see me dive for the ground you might want to think about why I'm doing it.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 16
- 7/16/2001 1:14:00 AM   
degen


Posts: 166
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: Seems that our little haven form the Trolls and flamers has been taking a few shots lately. We offer the Art of Wargaming forum for "anything goes" discussion, but I am getting fed up with trolling and personal attacks on the game forums. CUT IT OUT! THink what you want, email them privately, but we don't care what you think about the personality of other posters. If you have complaint about someones language or use of terms.. SEND ME A PRIVATE EMAIL OR MESSAGE. Handle these things OFFLINE and privately. That is why I am Admin to handle such things. This board has an enviable reputation for unbridled, but respectful discussion. PLEASE help me keep it that way. [ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]
Thanks Paul. A reminder to all of the "unwritten" rules of this forum is always helpful. Although I do not post alot, I do read the forum almost daily. I find the information and discussions on this forum very interesting and helpful, but above all, I appreciate the respect that the participants show to each other.

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"I would have much rather that he had given me one more division" - Rommel after receiving his field marshall baton

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 17
- 7/16/2001 5:39:00 PM   
Gen. Maczek

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 5/9/2001
From: Tychy, Poland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Bing: Said it before, will say it again: Compared to other forums I've been on the people here seem to be actually normal. Some of that can be attributed to moderator control, but I think for the most part stepping in hasn't been necessary. I agree that ignoring real flame postings is the first good idea on the topic, the other is as Paul has pointed out that the flamer be removed, talked to in private, and if really necessary barred from the board. That's an extreme step, but we found it was necessary on the old Gary Grigsby Pacific War mailing list. Not frequently, but it did happen a time or two over a couple of years. I have enjoyed the level of discussion and the friendly and prompt help on this forum, in those terms it is the best I've encountered since starting computer wargaming. I quit more than one forum because of what Paul and David and Bill have mentioned. Thanks all for a great board. I mean it. Bing
Dont think I can add any more to that...Agree 100%. Warm regards to everyone associated with our community. Gen. Maczek [ July 16, 2001: Message edited by: Gen. Maczek ]

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(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 18
- 7/17/2001 12:12:00 AM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline
I think trolling comes from the fishing term. You cast your line in and drag it around to see if anything bites it. You make a provocative post and see if anyone bites.

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Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 19
- 7/17/2001 2:16:00 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline
Matrix has a very good set-up for gaming discussions. The better forums are set up this way; that is with a separate "free" forum where control is a little "looser" so to speak. Regarding trollers, a good way I have found to see if they are really trolling is to respond in a non-provocative way & with facts to dispute what they're saying. Therefore, I think Paul had good reason for deleted those threads. I've never had a problem with the moderation here. Forums that attract a good audience usually require little if any moderation, so I think we have it pretty good here. I know of another "wargaming" forum that has basically become useless due to poor moderation & a strange, erratic & somewhat pathetic group of posters.

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(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 20
- 7/17/2001 3:09:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline
Paul, Timely and cogent as always. ("ad hominem" and "cogent". $3 words for an operator :) ) My 2pf, Let's face it: there ARE some posters, who for whatever reason just become annoying. I've found the best answer to be, grit your teeth and answer the question to the best of your ability. I know some folks here REALLY do some research to answer questions. A simple "thank you" for the answer, whether it's the one you wanted or not, goes a long way.

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"...these go up to eleven."
Nigel Tufnel

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 21
- 7/17/2001 8:10:00 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline
Hey be blunt, do my posts look like "Trolling"? no one has said so yet, and I have even had some say they like my posts. But I am an aries, its in my nature to be fairly opinionated. Just concerned I might be seen as a troller. And I dont want to be.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 22
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