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RE: v1.00.03 - 7/25/2021 5:27:43 PM   
ncc1701e


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Since the main goal of blockage is to destroy supplies of the enemy, I wonder if it won't be good to come back to the initial design of WPE for WPP.
Initially, transport ships were used for supplying ports. The problem is that they were not taking losses.

Perhaps this is too late for this engine but, if losses could be done for transport ships while doing supply interdiction, we could remove this blockade mechanism.
At the end, what we want to do is to destroy the transport ships fleet of the enemy so that he can't anymore supply all the islands he own.



_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 31
RE: v1.00.03 - 7/25/2021 5:51:08 PM   
stjeand


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MS should be used for supplies, not transports. But in either case something should be used.

Taking every island in the game without needing ships to supply them is off.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 32
RE: v1.00.03 - 7/25/2021 8:35:27 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 6124
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

Taking every island in the game without needing ships to supply them is off.


I think this is exactly the point. You want to invade an island, India, Australia, you can. But, you will need to have the needed ships to supply your armies there.

And, of course, with the losses, you will need to build ships for your supply network.

People seems to complain that Japanese can go too far away and too quickly. Well, if they don't have ships for supplying their armies, their islands, they won't go too far away.

USA won't have this problem. They will have the ships later.

That's the way I would solve the current balance issue. Add the usage of transport ships (as before) or MMs to perform port supply and not a fix amount of ships, an amount based on the size of the port. With supply interdiction of subs, or surface fleets, transport ships or MMs will be lost.

At the end, a crippled MM fleet will no more supply some islands, that could be ignored, and there is the island hopping.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 33
RE: v1.00.03 - 7/25/2021 8:41:55 PM   
eskuche

 

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I may off the mark but I think you guys are not thinking about the game from Alvaro’s perspective and thus are unlikely to get the game changed as you want. It’s meant to be quick to play with less bean counting (supply falls into this category as soon as it surpasses a 0-3 supply count mode).

I highly recommend taking a look in the editor capabilities to rework the game from within its framework. Having to micromanage supply fleets is not gonna fly. Or sail. Imagine having to turn off and on supply routes every turn because you’re low on shipping that takes HALF the Japanese income to make one set of.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 34
RE: v1.00.03 - 7/25/2021 9:05:26 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 6124
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

I may off the mark but I think you guys are not thinking about the game from Alvaro’s perspective and thus are unlikely to get the game changed as you want. It’s meant to be quick to play with less bean counting (supply falls into this category as soon as it surpasses a 0-3 supply count mode).

I highly recommend taking a look in the editor capabilities to rework the game from within its framework. Having to micromanage supply fleets is not gonna fly. Or sail. Imagine having to turn off and on supply routes every turn because you’re low on shipping that takes HALF the Japanese income to make one set of.


I don't know if I am off the mark. WPE game was initially designed just like this:
1. MMs used for convoy routes and providing PP.
2. Transport ships used for port supply and naval movement/invasion.

I think it was a great idea. Alvaro has then removed the need for tranport ships to do port supply.
For WPE, it was not an issue honestly.

For WPP, with plenty of islands to supply, I am asking myself the question if this is not a solution.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 35
RE: v1.00.03 - 7/25/2021 9:20:10 PM   
eskuche

 

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You have more time with the series so know more of the (game) historical reasons for removing such. Here's the reason why I don't think it's a good idea in WPP:

Most of the time merchants are an all-or-nothing proposition. Currently, Japan has about 50-80 excess MM for delivery from China and DEI. Once they are taken down below the threshold, everything else is subtracted by in proportion. Dedicated naval attacking of shipping lanes, if the US is able to achieve naval superiority/supremacy, can kill 10-20 MM per TURN. This means that either 1) a new system needs to be added for supply shipping (i.e., new programming, which has a high time cost, with playtesting and balancing, assuming we don't want a repeat of 1.03), 2) manual control of every single island supply route so that players can min-max safe islands not getting shipping for a few turns (this is not fun, and Alvaro has specifically mentioned hating min-maxing), or 3) IJN MM is kicked up a few hundred.

The last option is an issue because it still makes the game a black-and-white affair. There are enough MM until there aren't, at which point everything is shaved off from proportionally. Thus, the Allied player will either commit fully to the strategy if it's possible (which makes it very hard to balance) or completely ignores it (which makes the effort into perfecting such a balance wasted). The two-week turns means the raider can just launch full raider-mode fleets at far away supply lines and destroy MM at will, since the chaser will only occasionally be able to make pursuit attacks. Something I WOULD like to see is multiple-interdiction. A fleet should not be able to wander into 10 LBA and only get interdicted once.

To me, the WPP distills down to patience, nail-biting carrier tradeoffs, and island-hopping management (with occasional surprise landings to cut off supply).

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 36
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