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MPA ASW Tactic Questions - 7/18/2021 9:10:59 PM   
ExNusquam

 

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From: Washington, D.C.
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Couple questions for those who are more involved than me:
1. Does anyone have a useful solution for getting MPA to seed a patrol area with buoys at cruise speed, then slow to loiter to monitor the pattern? It seems like it would be more efficient to get the long-lasting buoys in the water fast, then loiter and wait for a submarine to transit the area. For something like a P-8, the difference between cruise/loiter speed is over 300KTS, which makes a significant difference for larger search areas.

2. Is there any known logic on what buoys the MPA elect to monitor, and why it is less than the number of available buoy channels? In the below image, there's a target SSN transiting a buoy field, probably within the detection range of the selected VLAD. However, the MPA doesn't appear to be monitoring that buoy, so the contact is not detected. Or does this not even matter if comms disruption isn't selected?

https://i.imgur.com/YQxpzGC.png?1

3. Does anyone have a useful formula/spreadsheet for calculating cumulative Pd for a sonobuoy search area? Standard random search probabilities don't seem very accurate for observed experience in C:MO (which I think is primarily due to poor AI buoy placement). I've found some sources for reconstructing the math...but figured someone else might have a pre-existing tool already.
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RE: MPA ASW Tactic Questions - 7/19/2021 5:44:56 AM   
KnightHawk75

 

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re: 1 - 'useful' I'll leave to you. As for the speed, change the associated mission setting for StationThrottleAircraft to cruise (or manual override a given unit), then when there are not more weapons present (monitored say every 15-30 seconds) on the unit,change the mission StationThrottleAircraft to loiter (or manual override a given unit), and possibly altitude as well if matters to you. See attached (Testrig_MPAMissionSample.zip) scene's events and script. Uses the unit specific change method.
It is also too bad there is no way to drop particular buoys at will (like in the gui) via Lua as it would be relatively straight forward to layout a course track at whatever speeds across a given bounded area and drop in a pattern one might desire\design.

re:2 - The issue there is 77B VLAD's don't have comm links on them by default, seems a database error for Weapon DBID#1939 (that's been around awhile), and should be reported. It should have commid 15 associated. 2494|2497 (A and C's) do have needed comms.


Attachment (1)

(in reply to ExNusquam)
Post #: 2
RE: MPA ASW Tactic Questions - 7/20/2021 12:34:58 AM   
ExNusquam

 

Posts: 511
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From: Washington, D.C.
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Thanks for the examples, I'll need to play around with that for a bit to see what I can come up with. Working it from lua it may be easier to work off fixed times, since for a nominal size search area, you're going to have buoys for the entire period onstation (since you'd also want to keep some for prosecution of the initial detect).

And re: #2, I'm not sure how I missed that. Good catch.

(in reply to KnightHawk75)
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RE: MPA ASW Tactic Questions - 7/21/2021 3:53:33 PM   
CV60


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FYI, I submitted the database error/change report for the VLAD missing commlink. Thanks. See https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3436106&mpage=233&key=&#

(in reply to ExNusquam)
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RE: MPA ASW Tactic Questions - 8/13/2021 5:29:15 PM   
SeaQueen


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Regarding #3, I do, but it'll be just ask easy to make it yourself. The idea is very simple. The cumulative probability of detecting a submarine is:

Pd = 1-exp(-a/A)

Where a = the area covered by sensors and A is the total area to be searched. It's very unfancy. Where it gets complicated is estimating the value of a given that there's so many variables in determining the range of the sonobuoy. It might be 2NM. It might be 10NM or more. It just depends. Suppose you decide the range is R. Then each sonobuoy can cover at most pi*R^2 area assuming no overlapping. If you drop r sonobuoys per minute, then the cumulative probability of detection becomes...

Pd = 1-exp(-pi*R^2*r*t/A)

Now you've got it as a function of time. I hope this helps you make better decisions in the game. Have fun.




(in reply to ExNusquam)
Post #: 5
RE: MPA ASW Tactic Questions - 8/14/2021 6:47:00 PM   
ExNusquam

 

Posts: 511
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Yeah, I already built myself a spreadsheet to work out the standard Pd/Random search formula. I think the issues I was encountering with validation in C:MO stemmed from the issue you described (poor estimation of detection range) and the fact that the SSQ-77Bs are missing a datalink component (reported).

(in reply to SeaQueen)
Post #: 6
RE: MPA ASW Tactic Questions - 8/15/2021 1:40:34 PM   
SeaQueen


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If you don't know the detection range of the submarine versus the sensor, the best thing to do is be conservative. 1-2NM is not unreasonable.

(in reply to ExNusquam)
Post #: 7
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