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Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT

 
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Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/5/2021 6:38:33 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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Hi all...just wanted to say I am playtesting a mod for SC-WW1 called the Polish-Soviet War (1920) by Jazon. We are doing a multiplayer match...and I get to play the Bolsheviks :) Its quite incredible. Its still in beta...so there maybe some kinks. Having recording of my moves won't just be for entertainment, but may have value in case of a bug or other behavior that may arise. So far, its been good..and we will be banking turns for a bit before I put them up on a turn per day basis. Hope you all enjoy.

I put up a series announcement on my YT channel...and here's the link to it, where also playlist will reside whence the turns done by the Soviets go public. Cheers.

Balthazor's Strategic Arcana, Polish-Soviet War series announcement and overview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckH1-Slu_yw




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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/5/2021 9:26:13 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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Looks great!

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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/6/2021 5:16:48 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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Thanks Bill

The first turn (Soviets-May 26, 1920) is scheduled to go public on YT on July 10, 2021 at 1pm PDT. Its scheduled so that one turn a day will go up in an episodic fashion.

Normally, a MP turn based match would book quite a few turns ahead (20-30) for F.o.W., commenters accidental or on purpose spoilers and reveals and RL breaks before going public. In this case, we decided on 7-10 turns forward so that Jazon can review my side since this mod is still in beta.

Anyway thanks all for watching this project unfold. Any comments would be appreciated as we test this for balance, bugs, and discuss ideas.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 7/7/2021 7:31:44 AM >


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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/7/2021 10:23:30 AM   
Jazon


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Hi!
Thank you Mike for making this YT video. There are already some discussion below first video.
But I would like to put few topics, that Dan raised up in our emails, and those which Mike raised in the video.

First some interesting facts, which brought Mike's attention: August Ivanovich Cork, is a soviet general in this campaign. His got English Surname, I checked, his origins were from Estonia. Actually he did pretty well as commander in this war, after polish counter-attack at Wieprz River he was the one who reorganized withdrawing Soviet forces.

Gai Dmitrevich Gai, had a nickname "Khan", and was commander of Soviet 3rd Cavalry Corps. He proofed his value in battle, he and his men were causing loads of problems for Poles by sudden and rapid attacks. Armenian.

Both met their fate during Stalin's Great Purge of 1937.

Other things are those which Dan raised up:
1. should Tachanka units have two attacks? I am open to discussion. My original idea was to use artillery unit slot for this, and make it a move and shot(1 hex range) artillery. That was about to depict the situation, when dozens of Wagons witch MGs approach Polish position, and in a minute start suppressing fire. Later I realized I can't make move and shoot unit; because artillery is hard coded, that it can shot only if wasn't moved before. So I decide to give it two attacks to give the impression of rapid supressive and devastating fire. All ideas are welcome, I can change it, but In my private opinion it works fine and gives Red Cavalry dynamic units, that adds flavor and new tactical possibilities to the game play. There are only three units of those- all together Soviets have 140 units at the beginning.

2. Trenches. I gave for both sides trench warfare 1. Why? By this I wanted to illustrate that in 1920, both Reds and Poles although they knew how to built proper, advanced trenches, they were desperately in lack of barbed wire, landmines, cement, planks or even shovels. The second reason is I wanted to make this campaign dynamic, and not worth trenching all over. Again I am open for discussion about that.

3. Warsaw defenses. This is tied up with what I just wrote. The only decent-western style trenches that Poles made, was made in July/August around Radzymin, at outskirts of Warsaw. They were built by Warsaw Civilians under guidance of Polish military engineers. I asked Bill is it possible to make an event, using scripts, or even decision to let them appear. However it can't be done. So Dan, actually gave a very simple solution, although maybe not exact 100% historically true: I should just draw them on the map from the beginning. It would be 3-4 hexes long. What do you guys think?

4. Post-German trench line, from 1917. In books and sources I read I found many times that both sides were using them. However I don't now how to make them as a map feature - I guess somebody already was raising this question in the forum - is it possible to make trenches as a terrain feature.

5. UK and Romania. They are playable, but they shouldn't be. Basically in this campaign they are only supply givers to Poland. I don't know how can I make them non-playable convoy givers. Anybody?

6. Lithuania - Lithuanians did not participate in this conflict legally, however in July 1920 Soviet Russia cede Vilnius/Wilno to Lithuania, but still were using these territory railways for supply purposes. Anyway, I can make an event for ceding a territory for Lithuania, and later a decision for Poles- do they wish to attack and take back Vilnius/Wilno. That's a bit complicated to do by scripts, because if so, I don't know how to make a script where Entente will push Poles to quickly resolve conflict. The fighting took only a week, and then stopped because of pressure from Western Powers. However in October Poles did pretty nasty move, and fake a mutiny of 1st Lithuanian-Belorussian Division (in Polish Army Service) and took Vilnius, proclaiming "Central Lithuania". It is complicated itself, and I don't know how to bite it yet with the scripts and game play. Any advises?

7 Polish Tanks - I gave Poles an choose, they can either start historically with 3 companies of tanks, with 6 strength[in game they are represented by TANKS unit], or wait a month and reform them into two battalions with 10 strength[they are represented as TANKS CORPS]. This solution is still under testing, I need to see how they affect balance between both sides of the conflict.

8 Heavy artillery. Poles have two units of Heavy Artillery, Soviets have one. In this version those units range is 3 hexes. I did it to increase the flavor and put in new tactical possibilities. This scenario scale is about 9 km for one hex. Polish Heavy artillery were equipped by French, namely Schenider 105mm mark 1913 guns, with maximum range 15 km. So by fact its not enough to cover three hexes, but in my opinion gives more fun! But after all I would like to know what does the players think?




(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/7/2021 9:01:36 PM   
mdsmall

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jazon

Other things are those which Dan raised up:

1. should Tachanka units have two attacks? I am open to discussion.

2. Trenches. I gave for both sides trench warfare 1.

3. Warsaw defenses. This is tied up with what I just wrote. The only decent-western style trenches that Poles made, was made in July/August around Radzymin, at outskirts of Warsaw. They were built by Warsaw Civilians under guidance of Polish military engineers. I asked Bill is it possible to make an event, using scripts, or even decision to let them appear. However it can't be done. So Dan, actually gave a very simple solution, although maybe not exact 100% historically true: I should just draw them on the map from the beginning. It would be 3-4 hexes long. What do you guys think?

4. Post-German trench line, from 1917.... is it possible to make trenches as a terrain feature [?]

5. UK and Romania. They are playable, but they shouldn't be. Basically in this campaign they are only supply givers to Poland. I don't know how can I make them non-playable convoy givers. Anybody?

6. Lithuania - It is complicated itself, and I don't know how to bite it yet with the scripts and game play. Any advises?



Hi Jazon - I am looking forward to following your mod on Old Crow's YT Channel. I will email you directly to ask for the file. In the meantime, here are a few thoughts in response to some of your questions.

1. Two strikes for Tachanka units: In SC WW2, armoured units have 2 strikes which makes them very powerful in concentrating fire-power. I'm not sure if that is the effect you are trying to achieve with these units. An alternative might be give them a range of only one and only one strike, but better movement and a greater capacity to evade damage in combat. That way they could run up and frontally hit the enemy and escape with less change of damage.

2. Trench Warfare level 1: makes sense to me, given that both sides would have know how to make trenches, even though they were fighting a war of movement.

3. Warsaw defences. Putting the trenches on the map from the start is one simple way you could do this. Another would be to have some weak units appear via scripts at the right time around Warsaw, which would allow the Polish player to use them to make trenches. Some weak detachments could do this. Or, maybe Bill could tell you how to copy into your game the engineer units from SC War in Europe which perform exactly the functions you describe.

4. Adding trenches as a terrain feature: sadly, this does not seem possible. I asked exactly this question in the Mod Forum.

5. UK and Romania: could you make them minor powers in this game, each with a convoy route to Poland? This would be like Norway or Sweden to Germany in the regular WW1 game. The only thing that you would miss compared to making them Majors is the ability to adjust the size of the convoy from turn to turn - but if they are not involved in the war in any other way, that probably does not matter. If there were other conditions you wanted to put on these convoys, you might be able to write them in Decision Events that affect the respective convoy script.

6. Lithuania: I'm not exactly sure from your description what effect you would like to create for Lithuania. But if you want it to be at war with Poland for just a short period, you could write Mobilization scripts that would trigger it entering the war and then a Decision Event for Poland in which the Lithuanians propose a cease-fire. To simulate the Entente pressure on Poland, you could give Poland penalties in terms of MPPs, National Morale or even unit strength if they say NO to the cease-fire.

Good luck with the mod!

Michael

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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/8/2021 7:41:52 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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I just pulled Turn 7 (June 7, 1920). This is truly on an epic scale.

Jazon..I think the Tachanka units are fine with the 2 attacks. They have certain vulnerabilities as you well know, and there are only 3. It gives the Reds a bit of flexibility..but they have to be taken care of...a very valuable asset.

General Budyonny's 1st Cavalry Army is entirely an excellent force to command. A dream command for me, who has longed to ride with Subetai or Batu west towards the sunset, scattering our enemies before us like wheat off the stalk!




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< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 7/8/2021 7:43:41 AM >


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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/8/2021 2:46:18 PM   
Mithrilotter

 

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I first want to say that this is a magnificently created campaign with remarkable detail.

I respectfully disagree on Soviet or any units having two strikes in 1920. In the Strategic Command games, no unit had any two strike units until 1939 and that was only German units with real, modern tanks. The Soviets still didn't have two any strike units or two strike tanks even with modern tanks in the June 1942 campaign. In 1920, the Soviets have plenty of units and don't need this extra capability.

I do feel that Level 2 Trenches are justified. In the 1917 Campaign game, all nations fighting with ground troops had Level 2 or higher. The poorly equipped Russians had Level 3 Trenches. The map is still large enough to allow movement around thin defensive lines. No one forgot how to make Level 2 Trenches. If the poorly equipped 1917 Russians could make Level 3 Trenches, then the 1920 Poles and Soviets find a way to make Level 2 Trenches.

As for a Post-German trench line, this could be added to the map as completed engineer fortifications. Such beginning, low level fortifications have been added to the map before near El Alamein, Leningrad and Moscow.

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/8/2021 5:02:44 PM   
Jazon


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Hi Guys,
First of all thank you for your comments and thoughts. As I see from discussion, and how i see it now in the game, I tend to agree with Michael and Dan. Two attacks doesn't fit for 1920's warfare. However I can give it damage Evasion, maybe 20%-30% due to its mobility and maneuver. Also Trenches on level 2 are definitely worth trying - we will need to see how it will affect the scenario dynamics. Maybe I will not bother making post-German trench line, but Warsaw fortifications I will just put on the map from the beginning.
Both Ideas from Michael about Lithuania and to make GB and Romania as polish minors I will try to implement in updated version of the game.
I just did my turn 8th of June (turns are daily, but alternate, one day for Poles one for Soviets). I got really hard times but I am holding the line. Damn weather cut me off for two turns from my air support, finally I got those tachankas bombed!
I guess sooner or later there will be Cavalry battle in Ukraine, I hope Uhlans will prevail! Game gets exciting more and more. As for my game with Dan I will make another post especially for that.
Cheers everyone!
PS
Old Crow - great Pic! I will download it and use as Soviet propaganda event:)

Dan - did the Silesian Uprising Event fired? Did you support the Insurgents?




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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/8/2021 11:08:28 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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Jazon and Mithrilotter: Okay..I can see the point of changing the Tachanka's properties to 1 strike and changing the evasion properties to like 30%. I can see great tactical use with that regardless.

BTW..in this current match test I'm in with Jazon..I'll just restrict myself to one attack with these my new favorite toys.

I never mentioned it in my recorded videos, but yes...the short Warsaw defenses need to be placed on the map.
So too, the old German defense lines. I just looked deep into the latter, and the Poles were deeply impressed with Germany's Trench Tech. However..from what I read, the Poles didn't have much of a chance to man this other line, because of the rapidity of the Reds push west. Still...they should be placed..maybe sporatically..but placed for sure if its possible.

I am also fine with Trench 2 tech max. I do dig when I can..but these are always temporary as follow up forces manuever up and beyond..looking for holes or bridgeheads.

Lastly, Jazon, I would recommend adding a version number when amending your mod as you go. E.G. mdsmall labels his Balkan Variations Mod like "Balkan Variations Mod V.5 for example. I worked on testing his mod as he made changes, and it was necessary to add version #.s so we both were on the same page while testing, and for computer file housekeeping reasons :)

Having a great time working with you guys on this beta test!

OldCrow




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< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 7/8/2021 11:24:40 PM >


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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/9/2021 1:34:17 AM   
Mithrilotter

 

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Yes, the Silesian Uprising Event did fire. Yes, I supported the insurgents.

I will share a joke that I told Bill during prior beta testing long ago on Strategic Command 2 Pacific. I told Bill that I usually say yes to most of his decision events. I had discovered through experience, it was generally better to do it Bill's suggested way or be sorry later.

Cool posters OldCrowBalthazor.

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RE: Polish-Soviet Mod by Jazon on YT - 7/9/2021 3:50:42 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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Funny joke Mithrilotter...I thought you went way back...and were a play tester for the earlier SC series of games.

I have gathered a lot of images concerning this conflict...and nearby contemporary conflicts also. Feel free to use anything I post here. I have had to manipulate some to ready as YouTube templates for thumbnails. They have to be 1280p x 720p to work right..which can distort some of the original images. Anyway, I will be making a variety of semi-custom thumbnails for separate YT series I'm planning in the future for this mod, and the other SC-3 titles.

I just pulled off Turn 8 (June 9, 1920) and captured Berdichov. Nice surprise at the end of the turn...there was a vast Polish ammo dump there! I was so happy haha. And 100 MMP in Trotsky's war chest now also. Yes..I role playing the Reds was lamenting how miserably poor we were.

100 MMP may not sound like much...but trust me, we will use this capital for our communist ambitions.

Edit: I have scheduled the first turn of my MP beta test match to go public on YT on July 10, 1pm PDT (-7 GMT)




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< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 7/9/2021 3:56:19 AM >


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