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Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11

 
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Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 6:07:23 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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I updated to 100.11 when it was released. Even though we are playing a PBEM game I assume that it "took". This last turn one of my Russian army units was shattered. It appeared in the units available to be built but it was the same cost as the other armies? Looked to me like it was in supply so doesn't look to me like the change in the update made any difference. What am I missing?
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RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 6:57:52 PM   
Nirosi

 

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Hi,

If shattered it would go in the build queue to be redeployed in bad shape in two turns (or three?). But only if it was shattered due to a retreat path longer than 2 hexes.

If it is not there (in the queue), it most probably means it was "Destroyed Shattered" due to hight odds. This can happens starting at 7vs1 and worse. That part did not change. Unit was probably just walked over by very superiors forces.

< Message edited by Nirosi -- 6/25/2021 6:59:42 PM >

(in reply to canuckgamer)
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RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 6:58:45 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

It appeared in the units available to be built but it was the same cost as the other armies?


Sorry what do you mean here?

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to canuckgamer)
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RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 7:28:58 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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It was a 36 strength point army sitting in clear terrain. The weather is snow and it was attacked by 3 panzer corps. The first attack was at 4-1 and it lost 2 strength points. The second attack was at 7-1 so not sure how the odds increased that much. What really surprises me is that the Germans can achieve those kind of odds in snow. In our game the Germans continued attacking in snow selectively by concentrating his tanks units.

The eliminated army appeared in the list of armies that could be built but at the normal build cost. I was expecting it to be at a reduced cost because of the change in update 100.11

Even with the changes in terrain it still seems to me that the Russian front is very very difficult for the Russians. In our game the Finns have also advanced deep in to Russia. I think historically the Finns decided not to advance very far. Changing this for War Plan would help the Russians significantly.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
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RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 7:37:36 PM   
Nirosi

 

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quote:

The eliminated army appeared in the list of armies that could be built but at the normal build cost. I was expecting it to be at a reduced cost because of the change in update 100.11


I am not sure what you refer too. I do not think there was such a rule intended.

The only changes for shatters was that the unit would go to the deployment queue for 2 turns (or 3 can't remember for sure). It will then come back with whatever steps were not destroyed in combat and be at low readiness. But that is only for shattered units due to retreat path more than 2 hexes.

In this case with the odds you mentioned, it seems to me it was a shattered due to high odds. That part of shatter did not change. You probably got however a very small amount of PPs and MP back as per the rule.

< Message edited by Nirosi -- 6/25/2021 7:38:11 PM >

(in reply to canuckgamer)
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RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 8:28:25 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

The eliminated army appeared in the list of armies that could be built but at the normal build cost. I was expecting it to be at a reduced cost because of the change in update 100.11


What are you calling the cost? Where are you finding this information? In which window?

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to canuckgamer)
Post #: 6
RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 9:38:03 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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Ok, I am obviously misunderstanding how this change works. The unit I lost was the 2nd Guards infantry army. It appeared in the list of armies that could be built after I clicked on the Build icon at the top and the Production page was displayed. A Russian infantry army with 1942 anti tank costs 234 (I think) which was the same cost if I had picked another army other than the 2nd Guards to build. From what you are telling me it looks to me like the 2nd Guards should not have appeared as one of the armies that could be built at the normal cost but instead appeared as a deployment in 2 or 3 turns. I will be very interested to see if that happens. If not then it must have had something to do with the retreat path although there were no friendly units behind it when it shattered.

Thank you for your replies.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
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RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 9:47:30 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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I just looked at the Russian deployment queue and there is no 15 strength army showing. The army was in supply and had a retreat path when it shattered. Maybe the supply value of the hex it was in was not high enough.

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RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 10:03:32 PM   
ncc1701e


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If the unit name can be found again in the Production screen, it means your unit has been destroyed. Most probably by the second attack at 7-1.

The way it works is the following. If your unit shatters but is not destroyed, you will find it here in the Deployment window. And of course the strength of your unit will be a little less than 30 or 36 because of the steps lost.

It will appear in the Deployment window only.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to canuckgamer)
Post #: 9
RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 10:05:10 PM   
ncc1701e


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Most probably due to the 7-1 odds, you were in this situation:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

If you shatter because of odds YOU DIE.
If you have NO retreat path, like Malta then YOU DIE.
If you can't connect to a supply source when you retreat YOU DIE.
If you can connect to a supply source, don't have a retreat path because the hexes are filled you shatter back to the queue if you retreat.

Shatter because of odds is due to being overrun and destroyed with a few soldiers running away.





_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 10
RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/25/2021 11:56:13 PM   
Nirosi

 

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quote:

From what you are telling me it looks to me like the 2nd Guards should not have appeared as one of the armies that could be built at the normal cost but instead appeared as a deployment in 2 or 3 turns.


On the contrary, because of the 7vs1 we are saying it is most probably a "destroy" shatter. It should be gone gone, but a unit can be rebuild using the same name. Even if you have a retreat path you can be destroyed due to a shatter (actually you do need to have a retreat path, if not it would be a surrender, even worse). Names are simply recycled when a unit is gone for whatever reason.

A unit only goes to the queue because it was forced to retreat but had to retreat more than 2 hexes. Then it becomes as special kind of shatter going to the queue instead. But that was not the case here as the odds shows.

< Message edited by Nirosi -- 6/25/2021 11:59:36 PM >

(in reply to canuckgamer)
Post #: 11
RE: Shattered Unit Change - Patch 100.11 - 6/26/2021 9:44:00 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 6828
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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To illustrate, this unit shatters back to the Deployment queue:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Nirosi)
Post #: 12
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