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If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 1:03:32 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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What would you do to make the game ground-breaking - or to set it apart from the rest of the designers??

I have for a long time thought war game designs for computers don't utilize the full potential of the computer. But I'm not a programmer so I'm not sure if this is just a perception of mine.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 1:33:54 PM   
RangerJoe


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I would like to have a game where you start out and make a settlement and go on to have a space empire. Micromanage at first but as your settlement grows, then less micromanagement. If there is combat, then you go to a different game engine for the military movements, then you can either do the battles or the computer can do them. If the wargame goes long enough for another turn in the main game, then you would cut to that game for changes in orders.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 6:06:59 PM   
mainsworthy

 

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I actualy did it https://manyone88.itch.io/spacewar-9222 , it is the game I want to play, it has crappy graphics though. I stsrted by making a board with lots of hexes so i had a big playing area. but later decided i needed bigger units but I got it working by just putting bigger units on the snall hexes. I liked games like star fleet battles, so I wanted to launch shuttles , fire missiles , i wanted stats and an A.I. at least good enough to give me a game, I wanted a Hotseat so i could play strategy against myself that would be better than any A.I.

but sadly no one has downloaded it or tried it or give any comments except a couple of guys on here. the game was what i thought would be perfect, but i found out its only perfect to me. its sad because i love it.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 6:14:36 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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Don't be sad, life is a learning experience. By the time you get good at it, well it's over - Ha! Mother nature has quite the sense of humor.

But seriously most of my favorite ideas for games would not be very marketable except for me.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 6:20:24 PM   
mainsworthy

 

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edit

< Message edited by mainsworthy -- 6/24/2021 10:09:13 PM >


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 7:45:18 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

What would you do to make the game ground-breaking - or to set it apart from the rest of the designers??

I have for a long time thought war game designs for computers don't utilize the full potential of the computer. But I'm not a programmer so I'm not sure if this is just a perception of mine.
warspite1

I've got no idea what is possible, but I would have a game (ideally as part of a big picture War in the Med game) where I can actually take the role of a task force commander or captain of an individual ship. I would effectively be on the bridge, seeing what I would be able to see given the conditions, knowing what I know only from recce and intelligence. Ooooh I'm all excited just thinking about it


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 7:48:23 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mainsworthy

I actualy did it https://manyone88.itch.io/spacewar-9222 , it is the game I want to play, it has crappy graphics though. I stsrted by making a board with lots of hexes so i had a big playing area. but later decided i needed bigger units but I got it working by just putting bigger units on the snall hexes. I liked games like star fleet battles, so I wanted to launch shuttles , fire missiles , i wanted stats and an A.I. at least good enough to give me a game, I wanted a Hotseat so i could play strategy against myself that would be better than any A.I.

but sadly no one has downloaded it or tried it or give any comments except a couple of guys on here. the game was what i thought would be perfect, but i found out its only perfect to me. its sad because i love it.


Facebook has a starfleet battles fan page.

I did download it but I have other projects going on right now but I will try it soon.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 7:52:27 PM   
mainsworthy

 

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I think SFB when I downloaded it, was enforced rules for online play or hotseat , NO A.I. but its still good fun.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/24/2021 10:07:53 PM   
WYBaugh

 

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What software are you using to develop your games?

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 2:43:17 AM   
Delaware

 

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I have longed for a Cuban Missile Crisis game. Where you have to plan photo recon missions against Cuban/Soviet opposition. Then conduct air strikes against missile sites, EW missions, Air to Air missions, all the while trying not to lead to Nuclear War. Think War Over Vietnam by Tiller but turn based.
That’s my dream game.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 11:53:25 AM   
RFalvo69


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I would program a fantasy game that uses "Dwarf Fortress" to create the World, and Skyrim (with enhanced crafting rules) to play in it. It would be mind-boggling.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 12:12:11 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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Whole Eastern front, 3.5 days, wego, division level.
Focus on operational warfare with movement path plotting for units+possibility for general behaviour advice (e.g. sit still until enemy comes within two hexagons, if so move towards it and attack). This should mirror the influence/Oda loops of corps/army commanders and you as the player represent the entirety of corps/army/army group command.

Detailed logistical system (railway, depot, trucks, horses, living off land).

Level of detail constant among all game aspects. Designed in a way that your time is best spent on planning operations and higher level logistics, not micromanaging army organisation aspects or huge amounts of ant units.
(No week long turns and too simple binary ZOC rules on the one hand, but recon aircraft camera settings on the other hand)

Focus on human vs human play, but with Ai that uses new technologies like machine learning.
No clinging to boardgame thinking, but making use of computing power for continous rules, e.g. ZOC being dependent on factors like unit mobility/supply/ranged weapoms


Other idea: Victoria 3 as announced so far, but with detailed war mechanics in Ww1 setting for close interaction between population, war economy and military aspects.

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 6/25/2021 12:23:26 PM >


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 12:37:02 PM   
Mobeer


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Groundbreaking - probably a tactical game where one unit detecting the enemy doesn't mean an entire side has detected the enemy, but which still allows units to communicate to a less than perfect extent.

Or maybe a FPS where the AI can work in squads.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 12:37:40 PM   
CapnDarwin


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I am a designer/programmer on a team making games and my question to you is, what is using the full potential of today's computers mean to you? Right now there are so many shapes and sizes of monitors, tons of mice, keyboards, and controllers, an endless number of drivers and updates that can cause programmers no end of issues trying to make a game everyone can play and enjoy.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 12:56:17 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CapnDarwin

I am a designer/programmer on a team making games and my question to you is, what is using the full potential of today's computers mean to you? Right now there are so many shapes and sizes of monitors, tons of mice, keyboards, and controllers, an endless number of drivers and updates that can cause programmers no end of issues trying to make a game everyone can play and enjoy.

In case this is addressed to me: I have the impression that many wargames still limit themselves to boardgame thinking. My favourite example is the ZOC in War in the East: You either have ZOC on a hexagon when an enemy unit is nearby, or you haven't if it is not. It does not matter if the unit is a 500men depleted unfed security regiment, or a 18k men elite Panzergrenadier division. For a boardgame you need a simple rule, but a computer can quickly calculate the appropriate ZOC based on supplies, fatigue, unit strength and mobility.

Other possibilities are using non-plain maps, but having the theatre mapped on a sphere to avoid distortions. Continous instead of discrete (hexagons, provinces) maps are a possibility too.
The WEGO aspect could be used more as well. Computers allow the time invervall to be sliced up into many small parts that can be simulated one after another to create a more continous experience, not like "I move for a week while you stand still, then we reverse roles"

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 6/25/2021 1:08:08 PM >


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 1:01:58 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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What I think when I put this in writing was:
Creating a wargame that uses concepts to increase realism.

Like Mobeer's idea above - Fog of War having a certain Artificial Intelligence so that it's not so absolute. Creating communication pathing so some units can see the enemy and other cannot, until they get a runner or a radio call. Maybe the game creates lines of communications that can be altered by a player and interfered with by a player.

Detailed supply lines on map with truck counters on map, supply dumps on map - no more arbitrary supply line rules, hidden from enemy view unless recon'ed or overrun in a breakthrough. (I think WITE2 did some of this)

Having unit counters that change shape from squares to hexes to circles based on game system requirements, maybe it's unit type, maybe it's task driven.

Being able to form ad hoc battle-groups, kampfgruppen or task forces from standard TO&E unit counters.

Maybe it's non hex maps like Command Ops 2. Maybe it's hexes with improved map symbology.

Just things that move away from a computer game being an exported version of a board war game.

A computer gives a designer tools for tracking even minute things but as a non-programmer I (obliviously) don't know what is possible and what is not. These are just some thoughts as to what I meant.

Your Flashpoint game system introduced the command cycle as a key game system. This was fairly ground breaking and is exactly what I am talking about.

< Message edited by Grognerd_INC -- 6/25/2021 1:18:26 PM >


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 1:26:58 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobeer
Groundbreaking - probably a tactical game where one unit detecting the enemy doesn't mean an entire side has detected the enemy, but which still allows units to communicate to a less than perfect extent.

Haven't the Combat Mission games had this for ages (all CMx2 games)?

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 1:45:17 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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If I could design a game

I like a modern game, a future war style.

Take Flashpoint Southern storm as a baseline - might want to go from a command cycle to a discrete operational points value (requires some pre-alpha testing). Where as ops point could be eroded by enemy actions similar to command cycle increases.

Change it to company level (at least) 500 to 1 kilometer map scale, possibility to have it like TOAW and have scales from 500 to 10 KM per hex. Turn length would need to be tested but somewhere around 4 hours a turn. (Naval and Airpower can do a lot in 4 hours, that's why the testing to determine optimum turn length.) The sequence of play would be complicated I imagine.

Add a comprehensive Air Command with air fields and aviation battalions like WITP. Air power and anti air ops would utilize AWACS, Precision guided munitions, refueling, detection rules, all of the complexities of a modern air battlefield.

Add a complete Naval command similar to SPI's Task Force game system.

Make sure the game has adequate special forces rules, cyber war rules and anything like this pertinent to modern & future warfare.

Sort of a very modernized Victory's Gulf Strike system.

Scenario's would cover:
Invasion of Taiwan
Second Korea war
War between US and Iran
Israel vs Syria
Ukraine and Russia with potential NATO support
War over the South China Sea
China vs Vietnam
India vs China
India vs Pakistan
Poland vs the Russian enclave at Kalingrad
Turkey vs Syria
Cypress (Turkey and Greece)
probably many others

Does this sound like a sales pitch to Matrix? Ha! It's not supposed to be.


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 3:41:32 PM   
wodin


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I've posted a couple of times here with two or three designs when similar questions are asked.

OK found it

Four games.

A detailed indepth tactical squad based wargame that finally has all the features everyone wants straight off the bat. WEGO or some other form is fine though WEGO prefer. RPG elements. Squads with 1 man casualties like Squad Battles. Detailed comms. Tailor made urban combat mechanics. Multi level buildings, Sewers. Obstacles and IP's. SOP's. Off map arty. Air support. Para drops. Leader stats. Higher Command interaction.

A detailed man vs man scale tactical wargame. Indepth RPG features. Plus all the game above wants.

Detailed WW1 air combat tactical game. Use updated mechanics used in Achtung SPitfire and Flight Commander 2 so the actual pixel pilot skills effecting how well he performs in battle and if he can pull of the desired move you set. Darkwind on steam has a great car combat mechanic that if a z axis was added would be superb for this type of game. Squadron management. RPG features so you become attached to your pilots. Manage high command requests for next day objectives. A and B flight is a scout and C flight two seater recon. Deal with recon, arty spotting, bombing , balloon busting and trench strafing. The better your squadron performs the more skill points you can invest in air crew and the mess or trips to town to help nerves and fatigue etc.

Next a WW1 company trench wargame. Think Sims\Tower Defence\RimWorld\RPG\Prison Architect\Dwarf Fortress. You design your trench system improving over time and you manage your men and officers dealing with the weather, patrols, trench design and building, dug out design, orders from high command, giving leave, putting a man in for medal, defending German raids and patrols, intel gathering, the big push, aftermath of big pushes, different units opposite means sometimes live and let live and other times constant alert needed. If you get through the War maybe three or four have survived through it all and are still with you. Many dead and wounded, others promoted and transferred (you are informed of their deaths or if they win awards or say if join RFC have become an Ace etc to add immersion). You'll be able to see a list of all the men who have passed through your ranks and what happened to them this being updated constantly and be very interesting to read end of war. This game would be full of narrative and immersion. Create clever designed redoubts and see how well they stand upto attack etc. Position your MG's as more arrive over time. Forward liaison officers. Downed Pilots. Fix drainage issues. Fix hygiene issues. Periods in and out of the line. Out of the line arrange baths, football matches and lots of training if possible plus no doubt assimilate drafts. Lots of possibilities. Learn new training methods. New Arty methods men need training about. Mine and underground warfare.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 4:17:50 PM   
MrsWargamer


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If I had the slightest clue how to make a wargame at all.......

I'd likely clone Steel Panthers, without the old software hassles. I'd likely call it Son of Steel Panthers (because Daughter of Steel Panthers sounds too forced).
It would look like someone had packaged Steel Panthers Enhanced, with Steel Panthers MBT and Steel Panthers Brigade Combat all in one program. You'd just pick which one to run at the start menu.
It would have a special program that understood how to add user-created content without the usual gymnastics. It would of course have the Mega Campaigns able to be added. But that's a separate purchase.
It would be made able to understand hardware and OS developments correctly. No weird hardware issues.

Otherwise, it would look just like Steel Panthers.
No weird modern notions I have never wanted to begin with.
No real time, no 3d, no WEGO.
If you want that, there is no shortage of other games that have it.

In a happier world, I'd own Hasborg, just long enough to sell off the rights to everything Avalon Hill to my own private self. Whereupon I'd sell off Hasborg as I'd no longer want it.
I'd then re release my Avalon Hill titles.
And I'd make faithful computer adaptions.
The trick is I'd be rich enough that making a profit on these items wouldn't matter.
I'd put them on sale for the benefit of the hobby.
And reprint them every 5-10 years.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 5:05:22 PM   
gekkoguy35

 

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@wodin

Please forgive me if you're already aware of this game, but you might check out "On the Western Front" on Steam. While you're a divisional commander rather than a company, it does incorporate many things you list in your last wargame idea. There's also some elements of air combat. It's pretty detailed, and you can construct trenches, place hospitals, HQ bunkers, manage your OOB and more. Very neat. I've not had a chance to play it extensively but it seems to have a lot of potential.



For my part, I'd love a ACW game that's done to a level of detail like WitE2. Hexes covering the country, production system, the whole bit. Maybe even some streamlined political options. Like an updated version of the old Frank Hunter ACW game.

< Message edited by gekkoguy35 -- 6/25/2021 5:06:17 PM >


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 6:35:52 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gekkoguy35

@wodin

Please forgive me if you're already aware of this game, but you might check out "On the Western Front" on Steam. While you're a divisional commander rather than a company, it does incorporate many things you list in your last wargame idea. There's also some elements of air combat. It's pretty detailed, and you can construct trenches, place hospitals, HQ bunkers, manage your OOB and more. Very neat. I've not had a chance to play it extensively but it seems to have a lot of potential.



For my part, I'd love a ACW game that's done to a level of detail like WitE2. Hexes covering the country, production system, the whole bit. Maybe even some streamlined political options. Like an updated version of the old Frank Hunter ACW game.



Have it:)

I find certain things about it not sit right. Would have been better at a smaller scale, plus actual to scale trench design building.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 7:02:51 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

What would you do to make the game ground-breaking - or to set it apart from the rest of the designers??

I have for a long time thought war game designs for computers don't utilize the full potential of the computer. But I'm not a programmer so I'm not sure if this is just a perception of mine.


I would do a wargame in VR. Like this, you have a tabletop, some counters, simulated opponents in front of you moving their counters. You have a real wargame in front of you but without the beers.

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 6/25/2021 7:03:11 PM >


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/25/2021 7:38:50 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

What would you do to make the game ground-breaking - or to set it apart from the rest of the designers??

I have for a long time thought war game designs for computers don't utilize the full potential of the computer. But I'm not a programmer so I'm not sure if this is just a perception of mine.



I agree.

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/27/2021 5:41:05 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I would like to have a game where you start out and make a settlement and go on to have a space empire. Micromanage at first but as your settlement grows, then less micromanagement. If there is combat, then you go to a different game engine for the military movements, then you can either do the battles or the computer can do them.

Meh, already made & done
Empire Earth
Spore
Maybe others too

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/27/2021 6:57:04 PM   
hapshott

 

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A wargame with good AI. I don't have the possibility to commit to an online game.

I always have the feeling that most of the current game designers give a lot of attention to the graphics. This at the expense of the AI.

I find scripted scenario lazy programming and not replayable. You alreay know that X platoons are coming from the right or left when you replay it. A solution for such cases would be more scripts. But then you have a difficult time in debugging and fine-tune all the scripts.

I like the John Tiller campaign (Napoleonic and Civil war) series. But here the scenarios are also scripted. I also think that the AI does sometimes stupid things. I use house rules to restrict me such that the AI can keep up a little. E.g. Use a dice to determine if a unit is allowed to move. Something like the brother against brother system. Here you need to pass a check to see if a unit can move. Do this only for the player and not the AI. By this you give the AI a nice advantage and the AI can be a little stupid. The JT campaign have a lot of scenarios. This also helps replayability

My design would be the topdown look of steel panthers (but better sprites). Combined with we-go mechanic and of course the whole WW2 just as steel panthers has. No DLC for the fronts. I know that we already have something this with Combat Mission. But I think that the AI should be much better than it now is. Especially the random generated missions.

An idea of my would be that the AI determines the tactics it want to us on higher level. Attack centre, use right flank, etc. Perhaps help the AI by looking at the player units, then it selects 4 tactics and randomize which tactics is chosen. After that it will use a tactics engine.

best regards,

Hapshott

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/27/2021 9:39:09 PM   
Rosseau

 

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"Groundbreaking" is a tough call. But I'd settle for a version of winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank with improved graphics and UI.

Maybe that will be the modern version of the upcoming Matrix Steel Panthers II, or whatever they are calling the true sequel.


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/27/2021 11:12:22 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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Rosseau, maybe it would help to write some down here -

What is a ground breaking wargame?

Command Ops - why? no hexes, very military command game structure, very good AI.

Flashpoint - why? Very traditional war game but has variable command length, novel approach to command, high realism value.

Combat Mission; Barbarossa to Berlin - why? excellent 3D engine, hybrid between real time and turn base.

Which games do you think are ground breaking and why?

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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/29/2021 12:30:37 AM   
Rosseau

 

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Those three titles would certainly be in my (personal) Top 10 over the last 35 years, and I still play them all, except CM is now CMx2.

All three also have detailed scenario editors, so that's a must-have.

They are all groundbreaking for the reasons you listed. And hybrid real time and turn based would be great.

So an amalgamation of those three that will also sell enough copies - there you have it!


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RE: If you could design your own computer wargame - 6/29/2021 2:24:16 AM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 452
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline
By ground breaking?, I've always been in a rush to beta test in Ageod games. But Russian Civil War Gold found me when I've been already playing vanilla. Any historical conflict interest me not only game mechanics, fascinating to learn new history and conflicts.

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 30
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