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Valor & Victory really? - 6/19/2021 9:09:41 PM   
Hailstone


Posts: 662
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From: Phoenix, AZ
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I went to the Matrix site to purchase Valor & Victory and was surprised at the price at $20 which is half of the new games Matrix typically charges. At that price red flags went up because how is it possible to charge so low. Then I played the game. V&V is a very simplified version of Lock and Load. The maps are small with few units. The author states that he too was into ASL but was disappointing how weak an ASL game V&V makes. TotH is still the best ASL-type simulation out there. TotH editor is way superior to V&V in size and scope of what you can do with the maps. Yet, there are two things that V&V does better one being PBEM. Using V&V servers, players can send their moves to each other quickly. Opportunity fire is handled by the AI so you dont have to interupt the flow. The second thing I like about V&V is the use of halftracks. As some of you know that is one of my biggest complaints with TotH. The half-tracks in V&V actually transports passengers and have a higher survival rate compared to TotH where HT's don't transport and have very low survivability rendering them almost useless in TotH and forcing me to replace them with armored cars when a scenario calls for HT's.

I would not recommend V&V except for PBEM.

Now, if TotH can do something with their HT's and maybe add a couple of map features like bunkers and mines it will become the greatest SL/ASL type simulation ever!

Happy Father's day!

Sam, a.k.a. Hailstone

Post #: 1
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 6/20/2021 1:25:58 AM   
MrsWargamer


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I disagree.

Valor and Victory has a superbly easy interface, is great fun, and is not a Lock n Load lite. Doesn't play like it at all.

Plays close enough to Squad Leader to be worth the mention. Is not as close as Tigers on the Hunt is. I think Tigers on the Hunt remains the ASL fix if you are obsessive enough. Even without hexside terrain and multi-story, Tigers on the Hunt still rules the ASL fix. Although I prefer to call it a Squad Leader fix.

I have Lock n Load Tactical Digital as well as its earlier incarnation of Heroes of Stalingrad. I still haven't really mastered the interface. I'm working on that. I'm sure it's a good game. Idf the interface was on par with Valor and Victory, I'd be too busy playing it to be on a forum right now.
The Tigers on the Hunt interface is a real dog, but, once you figure it out, all is well. I'm hoping Lock n Load Tactical Digital is the same.

But it is worth mention, Valor and Victory has no real learning curve.

I'm glad it was only 25 bucks here for me. It's been a tight month for cash :)
I think the game is ok at 25, I'd have paid 35 just as easily. Likely 45 too.

Loving the map size. Loving the unit density, ok with it not having a gazillion unit variations.
I like that the scenario creator is amazingly easy to use.
Not worried it doesn't have a map editor on launch.
Confident the game will get more DLC.

I rather like waking, finishing the usual internet activities and playing out a game in mere minutes and not days or weeks or months. It's a nice change.
It's a game, it's supposed to be fun, not accounting. I am not an owner of War in the East 2. I have the first, I have yet to dive in to it. Maybe next life time.

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to Hailstone)
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RE: Valor & Victory really? - 6/21/2021 1:09:47 PM   
simovitch


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Joined: 2/14/2006
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quote:

Now, if TotH can do something with their HT's and maybe add a couple of map features like bunkers and mines it will become the greatest SL/ASL type simulation ever!

Am I the only one disappointed by the lack of concealment in TotH? Even basic SL gave a defensive benefit to holding your fire in concealment terrain IIRC. The main reason I'll never start it up again.

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RE: Valor & Victory really? - 6/21/2021 5:00:20 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2480
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: online
This game is not ASL, it is like ASL but it's not ASL.

(in reply to simovitch)
Post #: 4
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 6/22/2021 12:42:12 AM   
Big Ivan


Posts: 1868
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

This game is not ASL, it is like ASL but it's not ASL.


+1

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Blitz call sign Big Ivan.

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RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/5/2021 12:29:00 AM   
yobowargames

 

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Can I put on record that I have the utmost respect for the work, time, and effort Peter has put into TOTH. I consider it a real compliment if anyone compares Valor & Victory with TOTH. Making these games does not make you rich or likely ever compensate you for the 1000's of hours that goes into making these game. The real reward comes from seeing/hearing players enjoying your game.

When I started out developing Valor & Victory I read over these forums many times to see what I could learn to help my own game and the dedication that Peter has put into this game was and is an inspiration to me.

Lance

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RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/5/2021 12:36:39 AM   
Big Ivan


Posts: 1868
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: yobowargames

Can I put on record that I have the utmost respect for the work, time, and effort Peter has put into TOTH. I consider it a real compliment if anyone compares Valor & Victory with TOTH. Making these games does not make you rich or likely ever compensate you for the 1000's of hours that goes into making these game. The real reward comes from seeing/hearing players enjoying your game.

When I started out developing Valor & Victory I read over these forums many times to see what I could learn to help my own game and the dedication that Peter has put into this game was and is an inspiration to me.

Lance


++1, still one of my favorite games when I get to it Lance, Thanks you!!

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Blitz call sign Big Ivan.

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Post #: 7
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/5/2021 2:46:03 AM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2480
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: online
yobowargames, thank you for your kind words. I wish you all the best for your game. We are all just people in the end, I don't wish to compare myself to anyone - I just wanted to share my creation with others. I didn't do it for the money nor the fame, I just did it because I though I could. I'm pretty sure that are and will be a better designers/developers out there than me.

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 7/5/2021 2:48:28 AM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/5/2021 4:51:39 PM   
rico21


Posts: 2983
Joined: 3/11/2016
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Attachment (1)

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Post #: 9
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/5/2021 5:01:58 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2480
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: online
who knows rico21...

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 10
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/14/2021 4:00:36 AM   
Chicharito19

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 11/16/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: yobowargames

Can I put on record that I have the utmost respect for the work, time, and effort Peter has put into TOTH. I consider it a real compliment if anyone compares Valor & Victory with TOTH. Making these games does not make you rich or likely ever compensate you for the 1000's of hours that goes into making these game. The real reward comes from seeing/hearing players enjoying your game.

When I started out developing Valor & Victory I read over these forums many times to see what I could learn to help my own game and the dedication that Peter has put into this game was and is an inspiration to me.

Lance


This post caused me to purchase your Valor and Victory. Enjoying it so far.

Michael

(in reply to yobowargames)
Post #: 11
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/14/2021 7:23:17 PM   
Hailstone


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/19/2016
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline
When I started this post it was directed to the veteran TOTH players in this forum, not V&V enthusiasts -
you have your own forum. It's a comparison of V&V with TOTH not a love fest of V&V. I have been a member of
this forum for years and have contributed over a hundred
scenarios. Many, many hours spent researching, gathering, and porting over actual SL/ASL scenarios to TOTH.
Playing SL/ASL since the '70s I've developed some expectations on tactical wargaming that V&V does not meet.
If you are hard-core about TOTH you will be very disappointed with V&V because of its simplicity. V&V is a good
game especially for novices of tactical wargaming and players with little free time. It's a great entry-level game
but I am not an entry-level player! My expectations are high especially being that it is the 21st century with
all the advances in PCs and technology. With V&V being a newer game I had very high expectations of more realism
(complexity) and graphics that would take advantage of my PC's capabilities but it was not to be. TOTH's complexity
is what gives it the staying power of over 5 years that simpler games cannot do.


(in reply to Chicharito19)
Post #: 12
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/15/2021 1:47:19 AM   
Big Ivan


Posts: 1868
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Status: offline
Hi Hailstone,

Good to hear from you!! Hope all is well with you and yours!

My bread and butter is the Campaign Series. Everyone here knows that. When I have enough of CS in a brief moment of time I usually bounce over to TotH just to mess around and immerse. Trying to capture lost ASL tabletop glory on the PC computer I think!

I picked up V&V and its a fun little beer and pretzel game but it doesn't have the depth of TotH and definitely not the larger scale Campaign Series.

I've heard a lot about Vassal and playing ASL on it but seems to be a lot of work to set it up on your rig. Maybe in my retirement I'll find some time to install and give it a go. Otherwise for now its TotH.

Regards Hailstone!
John


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Blitz call sign Big Ivan.

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Post #: 13
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/16/2021 5:39:30 PM   
Hailstone


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/19/2016
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline
The Big Ivan, good to hear from you. Sounds like I'll have to give the Campaign Series a try based on your endorsement. Like you, I really enjoy V&V after I have had a few which is more than I can say about TOTH because it always ends up in a disaster. V&V is a great "beer and pretzels" game that I can enjoy being inebriated making dumb moves and getting away with it. TOTH is less forgiving. I have played every V&V scenario including Rico's in 2 weeks which left me with the impression there is nothing more until I discovered how well V&V goes with Bud Light.

John, I started this thread to intentionally stir things up to see who is left in the forum but only you responded from the old group. Well, the thread was taking a totally different direction than intended but I have my answer. The TOTH forum veterans have moved on so I guess I will too. John, you have been around since the beginning and I have never seen any posts from you that were remotely critical of TOTH. Even the great Rico with all his contributions has often complained about the game lag yet you are so positive. I have a lot to learn from you but I'm afraid it's too late. I don't try to be good but instead, try not to be bad. It was good to make your acquaintance and thanks for your support regarding my cancer. I'll be taking a long break from gaming for a while but I hope to catch up with you on the other side. Take care Big Ivan, take care.

Sam

(in reply to Big Ivan)
Post #: 14
RE: Valor & Victory really? - 7/19/2021 1:19:10 AM   
Big Ivan


Posts: 1868
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Status: offline
Sam,

Thanks for the kind words and God Bless to you going forward my friend!!

People can say what they want, but Tigers on the Hunt is the closest game Matrix has to ASL. I thank Peter and his team for that experience and making it happen. I have your scenarios, my scenarios (some still uncompleted...LOL), rico's scenarios and a few from others who stepped up!

I never considered TotH as a computerized ASL but its damn close and I am content with that!! Peter and his team did good with this engine.

Still many hours of enjoyment and immersion no matter how one looks at it playing this wonderful game!

Take care Sam and reach out when you can my friend!!

Kind regards and God Bless,

John

< Message edited by Big Ivan -- 7/19/2021 1:20:27 AM >


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Blitz call sign Big Ivan.

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Post #: 15
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