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RE: impressions anyone? - 6/20/2021 9:52:18 PM   
tdavie

 

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Impressions. Honest ones wanted and i shall give honest ones. I haven’t bought the game yet, but as soon as I get settled in my new house, have internet/TV hooked up, that’s my plan. Simply haven’t bought it b/c every single precious penny is tied up into ‘the move’. But I want the game. I think about the game. I shall have the game.

The negatives shall be dealt with first.

1) Limited number of maps. For me, not a big deal since who am I kidding; I will never make a map. I’d like one, even if other people will be making maps for me 🥸 I want a map editor, would personally never use one. This simply isn’t a game killer.

2) No fog of war. I only play solo, so I really, really want FOW. V&V as it stands now reminds of refereed blind games of ASL I use to play. Even played an Atari 4/800 version of SL that came with a physical board/counters and used the comp as referee. Not a game killer, but a feature I want and expect when DLC’s start to appear.

The positives
3) Maps appear gorgeous to me. Maps provide immersion, and I like the little touches (even the flying birds, although I wish they would appear a little more random). if I don’t want to look at the map, I don’t want to play the game.

4) Graphics are functional, informative and the colour pallette doesn’t offend my aging eyes. If you’ve played SL/ASL/etc you’ll understand the information presentation.

5) Combat Result tables are given. I like to dive into meat/potatoes and making my own graphs/charts of data for my own use.

6) Combat is granular and the system won’t take long to play/learn.

I thought that allowing the system to decide/execute defensive/op fire was/is a no brainer and makes multi phased turns workable. Would I like more maps? Yes. Will I pay for more maps, DLC’s and other nationalities? Yes, yes and yes.

When I was younger we got around the sameness of the maps by buying multiple copies of SL and glueing photo copied overlays on top, effectively making new maps.



There is more than enough room in my heart/wallet for V & V, Second Front and Steel Divisions 2/expansions.

No comment on the AI since I’ve never played.

Just a curious question; anyone played through Crossover on a Mac? And probably not answerable, but Crossover on an M1/M2 Mac? How much ram?

Thx

Tom


< Message edited by tdavie -- 6/20/2021 9:54:08 PM >

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 31
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/20/2021 10:13:52 PM   
chris_merchant

 

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I was impressed with Lock n Load Publishing release of their battle and campaign generator feature for the LnL Tactical Digital game the day before this title was published :) Very tactical :)

I'll wait till they've fleshed out the features of this game.

cheers

(in reply to tdavie)
Post #: 32
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/21/2021 12:42:19 AM   
Rosseau

 

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Very incisive comments here from people that know their wargames. Kudos to all of you!

I've played the original Matrix Heroes of Stalingrad (along with Tom Proudfoot's Word-documented editor), as well as the much newer Lock 'n Load Tactical series on Steam.

Even with LnL's very recent release of an editor and battle generator for its series on Steam - and it's a bargain at $10 and highly recommended - I would still humbly recommend this game.

It's a bit quicker and simpler, as "theWood1" points out, but pretty easily moddable, as our world-famous modder Rico (you're the best!) has posted.

While I look forward to Rico and others doing the heavy lifting, even I can use Notepad ++ to add a tank or two to an existing scenario. And for some bizarre reason, I love the devs for giving us that opportunity.

Plus, with a very reasonable entry price of $20, I will have no hesitation investing in more maps and OOBs, just like with the LnL Steam release.

Good job, Matrix and testers!

(in reply to chris_merchant)
Post #: 33
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/22/2021 12:05:55 AM   
baloo7777


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Bought it. Like it. I've bought LnLT previously and like it. Each has good points and bad points. Maybe someday I'll be able to have the same experience on a computer as I had with SL and later ASL when I was younger. I will play both this one and LnL Tactical, but the LnLT system is more advanced at this time, and I will play that one more.

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Post #: 34
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/22/2021 1:18:04 AM   
dox44

 

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if you haven't checked it out, ASL's Heroes & Leader mod for Matrix Heroes of Stalingrad title is some of the best modding around anywhere...

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 35
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/22/2021 3:52:07 AM   
MrsWargamer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dox44

if you haven't checked it out, ASL's Heroes & Leader mod for Matrix Heroes of Stalingrad title is some of the best modding around anywhere...


Yep, got it, love it. And Rico is on this game too :)

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to dox44)
Post #: 36
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/22/2021 3:36:53 PM   
baloo7777


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Ahh...thanks, I have the Matrix version on Hero's of Stalingrad but have not played it in years and was unaware of the mod (It actually is in my online games under Matrix Your Games, not on my computer).

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JRR

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Post #: 37
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/24/2021 11:35:31 PM   
barkhorn45

 

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Lack of fow is the reason I don't play tigers on the hunt.Makes ambushes a little difficult to say the least. Will wait to purchase.

< Message edited by barkhorn45 -- 6/24/2021 11:36:06 PM >

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 38
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/28/2021 8:20:11 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 556
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From: Clarksville, VA.
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Gents:

I am "on the fence" with purchasing this game. I've watched some video replays and I like the simple game mechanics and fast-paced nature of each scenario. However, as noted by other players, there are many "under-developed" / missing features;

Need:

* Fog of war. Players now have complete enemy information.
* Better sound effects. Infantry moving and AFVs treads are terrible.
* More out-of-the-box scenarios. American Sector scenarios = 10 and British Sector scenarios = 9. Should double the number of scenarios. Frankly, I am indifferent on DYO scenarios.
* Mortars and artillery.
* Air strikes.
* Nice to have - customize leader names.

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 39
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/29/2021 4:14:18 AM   
Monkie

 

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I need to check out tha ASL Mod for HOS, never heard of it.

As for V&V, just buy it, how many squad level tactical games are there really out there? I don't think you will be dissapointed. I have L&L and TOTH, but to be honest V&V just keeps me coming back and I can't explain it other than perhaps it's just basics without any "story" type play that you find in L&L which isn't my style. I find myself a bit frustrated and elated at the same time when playing, coming back to some scenarios over and over to "give it a go one more time". I have never had that desire with L&L as much as I like that game as well.

Also it's very open to modding, if you want a leader name, get your favorite paint program and get it done, it's not hard and once you start you might find a whole new modding angle to explore. Sounds not right? Guess what, they are accessible and easy to change as well. It's a small dev group and they have left these files easily open for modding so now you can buy it and change those "terrible" sound effects to whatever you desire.

As far as lack of scenarios, the scenario editor is simple and you can bang out a quick and fun scenario in just a few minutes.

I'm looking forward to where the game takes us, I think it's a big winner.

< Message edited by Monkie -- 6/29/2021 4:24:14 AM >

(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 40
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/29/2021 3:07:00 PM   
george420


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Just bought it, no fog of war? really? did I miss something?

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 41
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/29/2021 3:31:13 PM   
Monkie

 

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There is no FOW currently modeled, it plays more like basic Squad Leader in that regard. IMHO it plays just fine without FOW, the limited turns available make the player have to choose very wisely where to concentrate firepower and avenues of approach. If FOW was implemented the slow movements would necessitate much longer turns and would slow down the game play.

Consequently one of the things that frustrated me the most about L&L was having to spot units before firing, it just doesn't feel right. The combat has to have some abstractions and spotting seems to be something that could be part of the fire attack die roll. High die roll, you can assume your troops didn't get a good fix on the enemy positions and their fire was ineffective.

Each system has it's way of representing the complexities of combat.

(in reply to george420)
Post #: 42
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/29/2021 3:58:26 PM   
z1812


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quote:

ORIGINAL: George420
Just bought it, no fog of war? really? did I miss something?


This is a board game port and the there is no FOW in the board
game....so understandably it is not included. Who knows, perhaps in the future it will be included as an option.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkie
Consequently one of the things that frustrated me the most about L&L was having to spot units before firing, it just doesn't feel right.


It doesn't feel right to you. I presume when you drive you are spotting all the time.........I hope so.

Imagine how much more important spotting is in Combat. However this is a board game port and the there is no FOW in the board
game....so understandably it is not included. Who knows, perhaps in the future it will included be as an option.


< Message edited by z1812 -- 6/29/2021 4:05:37 PM >

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 43
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/29/2021 4:19:04 PM   
Monkie

 

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Squad Leader did it's best to represent FOW using dummy counters and stacks, and as a board game it added a lot of extra work for the players. While it could be implemented much easier in a computer game it would fundamentally change the nature of how it plays. The turns would have to be increased quite a bit as the players would need to slowly approach each scenario with hex by hex assault movement.

As it stands now the game is much simplified to keep the action moving and I think that is its strong point, quick fun play. The player knows that the German MG42 has the street covered, they won't attempt to cross it and are forced to approach from another direction. If the player wants to risk it with some assault movement, that is their call, that is the fun of the game and perhaps it represents being "ambushed" by that position if they don't make it across. The whole issue with "spotting" to me is a detail that is abstracted during the fire phase. If you had to spot a stack of units before firing every phase the game would slow to a crawl and we'd need twice as many turns.

At some point a game designer has to ask themselves how they want the game to flow, right now VV flows quickly and I think that is a strong point of the system.

(in reply to z1812)
Post #: 44
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/30/2021 2:00:55 AM   
z1812


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^ As I said above, if FOW is included it could be optional. That way everybody is happy.

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 45
RE: impressions anyone? - 6/30/2021 12:31:11 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 556
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkie

I need to check out tha ASL Mod for HOS, never heard of it.

As for V&V, just buy it, how many squad level tactical games are there really out there? I don't think you will be dissapointed. I have L&L and TOTH, but to be honest V&V just keeps me coming back and I can't explain it other than perhaps it's just basics without any "story" type play that you find in L&L which isn't my style. I find myself a bit frustrated and elated at the same time when playing, coming back to some scenarios over and over to "give it a go one more time". I have never had that desire with L&L as much as I like that game as well.

Also it's very open to modding, if you want a leader name, get your favorite paint program and get it done, it's not hard and once you start you might find a whole new modding angle to explore. Sounds not right? Guess what, they are accessible and easy to change as well. It's a small dev group and they have left these files easily open for modding so now you can buy it and change those "terrible" sound effects to whatever you desire.

As far as lack of scenarios, the scenario editor is simple and you can bang out a quick and fun scenario in just a few minutes.

I'm looking forward to where the game takes us, I think it's a big winner.


Gent:

My expectation when I purchase a game is the basic structure and game mechanics are in place on Release Date. IMO, players should not have to immediately utilize mods or search around for sound effects, in order to improve the vanilla game to an acceptable base level. Also, only 19 out-of-the box scenarios is low especially when you compare it to other tactical-level squad games like Squad Battles. For example, Red Victory (Squad Battles) has 80 scenarios that come with the game.

Frankly, my wargaming time is limited, and I would much rather "play" the game then "mod" the game.

Looking forward to the Devs adding much needed features and then I'll circle back for another look and possible purchase.



_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 46
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/1/2021 12:42:55 PM   
bairdlander2


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I bought it at 41% off with my anniversary coupon.Played about 5 minutes then deleted it.Might try again someday.

(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 47
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/1/2021 6:46:35 PM   
ThunderLizard2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander2

I bought it at 41% off with my anniversary coupon.Played about 5 minutes then deleted it.Might try again someday.


Thanks - was thinking of doing that. Will look at War PLan Pacific again.

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 48
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/1/2021 8:30:54 PM   
rico21


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

ANyone willing to share their first impressions?

Wodin, my friend, call your dogs back, please!

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 49
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/2/2021 12:33:35 AM   
jwarrenw13

 

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Not first impressions. I was a beta tester. Current impressions. Steam says I have 83.4 hours on the game -- the beta was run via Steam. So I figure that is 80-100 games at least. I know I've played each scenario at least once from each side, and most at least twice from each side. I also own Lock n Load, the whole thing, and Tigers on the Hunt, which I guess are the two games closest, as well as the apparently 'dead' Conflict of Heroes, which I wish would become undead, and a couple of other similar ones. I also have some of the real time games like Combat Mission Shock Force 2 and such, and enjoy them, though I really prefer turn based and hex based. I've done several betas, though I've not enthusiastically supported every game I beta tested. One in particular 2-3 years ago I did not like at all. So I don't get beta tester Stockholm Syndrome.

I like the game. A lot. I think a lot of the "shortcomings" are not shortcomings at all but features. Here is what I see.

A simple to learn tactical WWII game obviously based on the Squad Leader concept. I loved SL and ASL. Owned just about everything in that franchise. Finally sold it all. When I heard Avalon Hill was shutting down I actually called their order department to say thank you for all the pleasure you had given me over the years.

Back to simple. Simple to learn. Simple to play. Short scenarios. Limited number of counters. You can play a game in half an hour or less. Scenarios generally well balanced, some better than others, and some where playing as a static defender is boring. But you can expect an interesting game in most scenarios, especially if you are the attacker.

I like having a game with no fog of war, as something different. It is I think a novelty these days. It is a refreshing feature to me. There are no ambushes. No walking into unknown units. Everything is in front of you. You have to work out the best plan of action using cover, LOS/LOF, weapon range, and a decent idea about what the dice rolls will do. Though honestly I don't crunch numbers when I play and have turned off the dice rolls. I prefer that little bit of uncertainty, just looking at the results and not the combat results table. In that respect, the game is chesslike, with dice. I think no fog of war is one of the game's best features. I don't think I've ever felt that way about a computer game. It seems to work in this one.

I also think you can get good at the game without a huge amount of effort. I don't see it as "easy to learn, hard to master." But you do have to learn how to develop a plan based on the game board, your forces, and the enemy forces, and of course the game system. You can't just rush the enemy. In some ways it gets into the realm of a puzzle solver. Except of course the dice rolls mean that no solution is ever going to be perfect.

Some say the even odds between attacker and defender are a detriment to the game. But you have to figure out a way to get good 3-1 or so odds at critical points if attacking, or prevent the enemy from getting them if defending. That is part of the tactical puzzle you have to solve.

I have nothing to say about the editor or creating new maps. I never do that with games. If making that better helps sell more games, then the developer should put some effort into that. I asked before, and I bet Matrix knows, what percent of those who buy and play a game think that is important. I don't really know.

Thinking about some of the other things that have been discussed:

Artillery, OBA, mortars, air strikes. I think that the small, intimate size of the scenarios and short number of turns would make artillery and air strikes such a major game changer in any scenario that it would ruin the scenario. If you have to go in and try to take out that 88 position NOW, it probably means artillery and air aren't available NOW, or the barrage has already happened, and you've been ordered to make the attack NOW anyway. Mortars of the 60mm or so variety, I can see that.

More scenarios. Yes. But I do know the team is very, very, very small, and they spent a lot of time trying to work with the scenarios they had and make them good right up until the end of beta.

Music and sound effects. I don't like the music and musical effects and such and noted as much when it was added. But then I play all my games with music silenced and most with all sound effects silenced.

No control of opportunity fire. I like that decision. It can help you against the AI. You can send forward a half squad to draw fire and then work around that once you know the enemy won't be firing any more. But on the other hand, you can't control your own opportunity fire against the AI, so I think that somewhat balances out. It also greatly speeds and simplifies the game, which I think is a plus. I could see an option to turn off opp fire for units, but that would be an advantage for the solo player against the AI because the AI would not have that capability. But it would add another layer to player vs player games.

I've also argued for doing away with the elimination victory conditions and making all those scenarios objective scenarios, because as the defender you can just retreat and survive to win.

And the price is good for what's in the game.

So those are my current thoughts. I hope the game does well and that there are additions. I like that fact that I can set it up and play through in 30 minutes or so when I don't feel like launching on something longer.











< Message edited by jwarrenw13 -- 7/2/2021 2:06:21 AM >

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 50
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/2/2021 7:57:32 AM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

ANyone willing to share their first impressions?

Wodin, my friend, call your dogs back, please!


Pardon??

Very odd why same feel I'm not allowed to ask about certain games.

Rico you owe me an apology.

Can someone point out where I've unleashed dogs or show me the obvious anti Valour campaign I've been posting? As I'm stumped. I love tactical wargames and if a game is tactical I want to hear about it, is that wrong?

Rico alot of the time I struggle to understand your posts, here I get it, you're being a ****.

< Message edited by wodin -- 7/2/2021 8:07:49 AM >


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RE: impressions anyone? - 7/3/2021 2:24:10 PM   
Calaf

 

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Biggest disappointment: That you cannot go head to head online, like Memoir 44.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 52
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/3/2021 5:00:29 PM   
eddieballgame

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Calaf

Biggest disappointment: That you cannot go head to head online, like Memoir 44.


A 'lan'/'IP to IP' feature/option would have been nice.
There is an option that could simulate this, however.
A program such as 'TeamViewer' could be viable.
Of course, you would want to know who is connected to you.

< Message edited by eddieballgame -- 7/3/2021 5:01:42 PM >

(in reply to Calaf)
Post #: 53
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/7/2021 2:27:45 PM   
george420


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No it won't slow the game down, if you have only so many turns to take an objective then you might have to rush across that field or street without assault movement and take your chances, or run out of time. Not knowing what's around the corner or behind that hill is central to enjoyable game play.

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 54
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/7/2021 4:28:05 PM   
Blond_Knight


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I like the art work, and the simplicity of the editor. The fanfare after every shot is annoying. Its priced appropriately. Ive never played the board game version, but Im honestly sick to death of games trying to shoehorn ASL-ness into them.

< Message edited by Blond_Knight -- 7/7/2021 4:32:07 PM >

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Post #: 55
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/7/2021 5:34:23 PM   
Monkie

 

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quote:

The fanfare after every shot is annoying


Very simple fix, you just need to remove the appropriate offending sounds from the assets folder and they won't play.

I agree that once you've played enough there is no real need for a sound, though I might try to find some substitute sounds that will play for the appropriate outcome of the die rolls.

The sounds are located in D:\Valor and Victory\assets\sounds

look for the ones with "stinger" in them, those are the ones you want to remove most likely, though some are to signal the change of phasing players. Just make sure to back them all up as always before removing anything.

The fact that the game is easily customized is a big plus in my book.




< Message edited by Monkie -- 7/7/2021 5:37:36 PM >

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Post #: 56
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/8/2021 7:18:58 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1787
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quote:

ORIGINAL: george420

No it won't slow the game down, if you have only so many turns to take an objective then you might have to rush across that field or street without assault movement and take your chances, or run out of time. Not knowing what's around the corner or behind that hill is central to enjoyable game play.


I disagree on the last comment. Obviously that's your preference, and it is usually mine, and some will understandably not get the game because it doesn't have FOW. But I've found that despite my initial skepticism, the absence of FOW requires a different way of approaching the problem of each scenario, and that challenge creates its own version of enjoyable game play for me. You know you have to get from point A to point B to win. You know the enemy if there. You know his capabilities. You know the odds How can you use the game system to give yourself the best chance to win. It is just a different kind of puzzle that creates a different kind of excitement. It works for me, though I understand it will not work for everyone.

(in reply to george420)
Post #: 57
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/8/2021 11:32:35 PM   
El_Condoro

 

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I agree with everything jwarrenw13 says there. I also thought lack of FOW was a problem but the 'puzzle' is the challenge. If FoW were to be introduced now, every scenario would favour the defender even more. Don't get me started on the role of luck, though - that's something I am ambivalent about: one the one hand it makes me want to scream when it ruins a scenario but, on the other hand, it makes me play that scenario until I beat it. Go figure.

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
Post #: 58
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/8/2021 11:49:28 PM   
Monkie

 

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quote:

one the one hand it makes me want to scream when it ruins a scenario but, on the other hand, it makes me play that scenario until I beat it. Go figure.


That is how I am feeling about it, I can't think of another game where I would replay scenarios over and over just to see if I can do better for some reason I keep coming back with VV.

(in reply to El_Condoro)
Post #: 59
RE: impressions anyone? - 7/11/2021 2:06:19 AM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1787
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From: Louisiana, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkie

quote:

one the one hand it makes me want to scream when it ruins a scenario but, on the other hand, it makes me play that scenario until I beat it. Go figure.


That is how I am feeling about it, I can't think of another game where I would replay scenarios over and over just to see if I can do better for some reason I keep coming back with VV.


I think that is a great strength of the game. Some of the scenarios are just incredibly well balanced. All are good. Some are remarkably good. And all hold up under repeated replays.

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 60
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