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Russian Strategy - 6/17/2021 5:02:31 AM   
canuckgamer

 

Posts: 551
Joined: 6/23/2004
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It appears that I am going to lose another PBEM game as the Allies since Moscow has fallen and the Axis have taken one oil field in the Caucasus and are advancing on the others. In the north the Finns have advanced far enough in to Russia that the railroad to Murmansk is cut so no lend lease to Russia in the winter months. It is now December 42.

I invaded Brittany in the fall of 42 just to draw some units from the Russian front. However most of the units in France are Hungarian and Romanian.

I know there have been a couple of changes in patches to help the Russians such as adding more terrain and in the last one, having shattered units that were in supply added to the force pool but should more be done?

Looks to me that the Russians in 41 and 42 have to continually give ground while maintaining a double line. In the current game I built as many armies as I could, moved my air units from the front and converted as many corps in to armies as possible. It still seems to me that the effect of the Russian winter is minimal. The Axis may not be able to attack as much but they merely use the winter to build up their forces for the summer of 42. The Russians can't conduct a winter offensive like they did historically around Moscow and their mobility is just as bad as the Axis. A suggestion I made in one of my other posts is that the Siberian units that arrive in December should already have the winterization specialty.

I opened up the 1942 scenario and the starting Russian forces are way weaker than what I started the summer of 42 with and I still got my butt kicked. I also noticed German units in Finland which my opponent has not done in any of our games.

The Finns in all our games seem to be very strong and have a major impact up north even without German units. Certainly the most impact of any game I have played, board or computer.

I'm wondering if any of you experienced players build Russian merchant marines for the Arctic Convoy route? It seems to me that you wouldn't be able to because it takes away from the number of armies that you can build.

Just a few non Russian front comments. In the three games we have played, the Axis have never declared Vichy or invaded Greece or Yugoslavia. In two of the games he has immediately landed in Syria when he accepts France's surrender so that there is another front in Med from the Syrian side.

Seems like a lot of the best strategy in this game goes against historical events.

Finally, for those of you who have played a number of PBEM games, which side is winning more?

Post #: 1
RE: Russian Strategy - 6/17/2021 4:07:26 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 3337
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

It appears that I am going to lose another PBEM game as the Allies since Moscow has fallen and the Axis have taken one oil field in the Caucasus and are advancing on the others. In the north the Finns have advanced far enough in to Russia that the railroad to Murmansk is cut so no lend lease to Russia in the winter months. It is now December 42.

I invaded Brittany in the fall of 42 just to draw some units from the Russian front. However most of the units in France are Hungarian and Romanian.


I have played a couple games where I have lost Moscow and still won the game. But in those games I was able to save most of the Russian armour and mechanized. Invading with the Allies in 42 is good only if you do so in force (10+ Corps) or are putting pressure on Italy. Without seeing a map of your game along with the relative force pools it is difficult to comment more.


quote:

I know there have been a couple of changes in patches to help the Russians such as adding more terrain and in the last one, having shattered units that were in supply added to the force pool but should more be done?

Looks to me that the Russians in 41 and 42 have to continually give ground while maintaining a double line. In the current game I built as many armies as I could, moved my air units from the front and converted as many corps in to armies as possible. It still seems to me that the effect of the Russian winter is minimal. The Axis may not be able to attack as much but they merely use the winter to build up their forces for the summer of 42. The Russians can't conduct a winter offensive like they did historically around Moscow and their mobility is just as bad as the Axis. A suggestion I made in one of my other posts is that the Siberian units that arrive in December should already have the winterization specialty.


The trick for the Russians, IMHO, is to build lots of corps and put them all in garrison mode. Almost all of Russia's prewar production should be spent on building 39 level corps. The rest should be spent on building 3 armour corps,2 or 3 mountain corps and upgrading all armour, mechanized, starting armies (2), cavalry and mountain units to the latest tech level (usually 41). Do not spend anything to upgrade the air force. The next trick is to then slow the Germans down enough with the corps so that you can save all of your good units. Yes you will have to retreat and give ground. But better that than losing any armour. You are correct that you cannot get good odds during the Russian Winter. But attack at 1:1 anyway. Your purpose in the Russian Winter is to increase Russia's national morale (or whatever it is called) to 50% for land units. Taking losses can actually be beneficial. If you have an armour unit with 30% experience and your national morale is 40% than if it takes losses it will come back stronger.


quote:

I opened up the 1942 scenario and the starting Russian forces are way weaker than what I started the summer of 42 with and I still got my butt kicked. I also noticed German units in Finland which my opponent has not done in any of our games.

The Finns in all our games seem to be very strong and have a major impact up north even without German units. Certainly the most impact of any game I have played, board or computer.


The Finns will be at the end of their supply lines. Bomb them and use cavalry to try and surround them.

quote:

I'm wondering if any of you experienced players build Russian merchant marines for the Arctic Convoy route? It seems to me that you wouldn't be able to because it takes away from the number of armies that you can build.


Do not build Russian MS.

quote:

Just a few non Russian front comments. In the three games we have played, the Axis have never declared Vichy or invaded Greece or Yugoslavia. In two of the games he has immediately landed in Syria when he accepts France's surrender so that there is another front in Med from the Syrian side.

Seems like a lot of the best strategy in this game goes against historical events.


If the Axis don't invade Vichy or Vichy North Africa this will give the Allies easy access to the "Soft underbelly of Europe". Exploit this. The UK can invade Syria before the Axis can. Do this at the first opportunity.

quote:

Finally, for those of you who have played a number of PBEM games, which side is winning more?


Hard for me to say as I am winning playing both sides.




(in reply to canuckgamer)
Post #: 2
RE: Russian Strategy - 6/17/2021 6:46:45 PM   
Nirosi

 

Posts: 870
Joined: 9/17/2017
Status: online
quote:

Hard for me to say as I am winning playing both sides.


And I am losing playing both sides. So in a funny way, this might show that it is, more or less, correctly balanced...

< Message edited by Nirosi -- 6/17/2021 6:47:01 PM >

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 3
RE: Russian Strategy - 6/17/2021 7:04:53 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 5480
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

quote:

Just a few non Russian front comments. In the three games we have played, the Axis have never declared Vichy or invaded Greece or Yugoslavia. In two of the games he has immediately landed in Syria when he accepts France's surrender so that there is another front in Med from the Syrian side.

Seems like a lot of the best strategy in this game goes against historical events.


If the Axis don't invade Vichy or Vichy North Africa this will give the Allies easy access to the "Soft underbelly of Europe". Exploit this. The UK can invade Syria before the Axis can. Do this at the first opportunity.


If there is one chess move in this game, this is this one. With UK, ready the WDF near the Syrian border. As soon as France is falling, you must attack Vichy Syria the next turn and protect the two harbors there.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 4
RE: Russian Strategy - 6/17/2021 7:08:10 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 5480
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana


quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

I know there have been a couple of changes in patches to help the Russians such as adding more terrain and in the last one, having shattered units that were in supply added to the force pool but should more be done?

Looks to me that the Russians in 41 and 42 have to continually give ground while maintaining a double line. In the current game I built as many armies as I could, moved my air units from the front and converted as many corps in to armies as possible. It still seems to me that the effect of the Russian winter is minimal. The Axis may not be able to attack as much but they merely use the winter to build up their forces for the summer of 42. The Russians can't conduct a winter offensive like they did historically around Moscow and their mobility is just as bad as the Axis. A suggestion I made in one of my other posts is that the Siberian units that arrive in December should already have the winterization specialty.


The trick for the Russians, IMHO, is to build lots of corps and put them all in garrison mode. Almost all of Russia's prewar production should be spent on building 39 level corps. The rest should be spent on building 3 armour corps,2 or 3 mountain corps and upgrading all armour, mechanized, starting armies (2), cavalry and mountain units to the latest tech level (usually 41). Do not spend anything to upgrade the air force. The next trick is to then slow the Germans down enough with the corps so that you can save all of your good units. Yes you will have to retreat and give ground. But better that than losing any armour. You are correct that you cannot get good odds during the Russian Winter. But attack at 1:1 anyway. Your purpose in the Russian Winter is to increase Russia's national morale (or whatever it is called) to 50% for land units. Taking losses can actually be beneficial. If you have an armour unit with 30% experience and your national morale is 40% than if it takes losses it will come back stronger.


Prewar, I am building plenty of rifle corps. I am upgrading my rifle corps (30% exp), my armor and my mechanized. You can sacrifice the 20% exp rifle corps. But the 30% exp rifle corps will eventually upgrade to half armies. Two half armies will combine in a full army. Interesting trade off.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 5
RE: Russian Strategy - 6/17/2021 7:17:15 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 5480
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
Your initial position is also important. Avoid big encirclements. Do you have a screenshot of your setup prior of the invasion?

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 6
RE: Russian Strategy - 6/17/2021 8:17:40 PM   
canuckgamer

 

Posts: 551
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline
Yes, a mistake I made was not declaring war on Syria as soon as France surrendered so I could take the 3 ports. As the game progressed I thought that the Syrian front was costing the Italians a lot of production as there were a lot of losses on both sides.

Harry I am curious about your suggestion of building lots of corps and converting them to garrison mode. I realize you pick up some PP but with the reduced movement don't they get surrounded easily?

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 7
RE: Russian Strategy - 6/17/2021 9:48:07 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 3337
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

Harry I am curious about your suggestion of building lots of corps and converting them to garrison mode. I realize you pick up some PP but with the reduced movement don't they get surrounded easily?



Some yes. But they are expendable. Once the German surrounds some corps he will have to either:

1. Attack and eliminate them; which will use up some OPs and efficiency;
2. Leave them surrounded to die eventually, which will require troops being left behind to contain them.

If you have lots of corps than the Axis will have to make several attacks to destroy them. This benefits the Russian because the more attacks the more chances of Russian national experience being increased and the more effectiveness loss for the Axis units. Even 10:1 attacks will cause the attacking units to lose effectiveness.

In my experience some will escape anyway.

Each 39 corps converted to garrison mode will return 17 production. So if you build 30 of them this will be a return of 510 production. Enough to build another 4 or 5 of them.


< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 6/17/2021 9:51:12 PM >

(in reply to canuckgamer)
Post #: 8
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