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Italian surrender - 6/13/2021 12:10:09 AM   
Professor Chaos

 

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I am playing my first game as Allies vs AI (1942 scenario), and am surprised at how the game handles the surrender of Italy. I was playing very conventionally; landing on Sicily and then Taranto in mid-1943.

The mechanic of all of Italy turning Allied upon surrender seems weird. But this was compounded by the behavior of the AI. The remaining German units in the south didn't really do anything or try to establish a defensive line in mid Italy. Nor did the AI move any units to the Italian borders. So without any resistance, there is nothing to stop the Allies from waltzing up into Bavaria and ending the game.

I realize that it must be hard to figure out how to handle surrender in all cases, but instantly turning all of Italy into Allied territory presents the AI from railing in units to defend even if it was inclined.

Italy surrendering to an invasion from the south in 1943 is not exactly an obscure use case, so it seems strange that this is something the AI can't handle.
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RE: Italian surrender - 6/13/2021 5:49:49 PM   
sillyflower


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I know nothing about computers, though I know that the more complex the game, the weaker the AI' performance. AI's can win chess but not large strategy games, though the AI here is generally good.

My advice - try PvP or give the AI a good boost

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/13/2021 11:40:11 PM   
Professor Chaos

 

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At least if Italian-controlled hexes turned to German-occupied instead of Allied-occupied upon Italy's surrender, Germany could rail in reinforcements right away. And German units already in Italy wouldn't be instantly cut off and out of supply.

Plus, the Allies wouldn't be able to just drop off units at the ports in Genoa and Venice, nor immediately rail up to the German border.

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/14/2021 12:22:57 AM   
Nirosi

 

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Hi,

It would require some troops, but if Italy surrenders by negotiation (which it usually does) the Axis players should get a notification that Italy is ready to negotiate. So the Axis has one last turn either to retake some cities and rescind the offer, or send troops (if not already there) to occupy important places like the ports. If looking at keeping everything North of Rome (and Rome), 7 divisions (by memory) can occupy the ports (and then can take inland cities and come back to the ports). Plus one more division per whatever port Italy still controls outside Italy (such as Albania). Ideally, Germany should have troops there already, like historical to be ready just in case. If not, there would be no reason for the hexes to convert to Germany if there are no soldiers around to take them.

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/14/2021 6:30:24 AM   
Professor Chaos

 

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Maybe if the AI could figure that out, sure....

But right now this seems kind of game-breaking for a game against the AI. I can't be the first player against the AI to invade Italy in 1943!

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/14/2021 12:52:31 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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There is a double edged sword here. If the surrender rule isn't this way Norway stayed Allied controlled and the Germans need to walk up to take the entire country. Which let's the Allies easily occupy it. Although technically it would be more historical. Players complained that they had to do this and petitioned for countries just to change hands.

The A.I. should have units guarding the ports.

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/14/2021 12:59:51 PM   
stjeand


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Al is there any way to differentiate between in country and out of country?

I understand that when Italy surrenders their country becomes UK...
BUT Italian hexes in Russia become UK...that can cripple the Axis if the Italians took some key rail lines by accident.
It happens a lot.

You basically have to lead the the Germans and have the Italians behind. And then when partisans show up and the Italian garrison units are cleaning them up they take over the hexes.

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/14/2021 1:10:28 PM   
Nirosi

 

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quote:

BUT Italian hexes in Russia become UK...that can cripple the Axis if the Italians took some key rail lines by accident.
It happens a lot.


+1

Yes if "partial control" like that (in a not yet conquered country) could stay on the same side, it would be nice...

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/14/2021 5:06:14 PM   
ncc1701e


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No wonder why I don't use Italy in USSR.

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/14/2021 7:20:52 PM   
Professor Chaos

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

There is a double edged sword here. If the surrender rule isn't this way Norway stayed Allied controlled and the Germans need to walk up to take the entire country. Which let's the Allies easily occupy it. Although technically it would be more historical. Players complained that they had to do this and petitioned for countries just to change hands.

The A.I. should have units guarding the ports.


Hi Alvaro, thanks for the reply. I think the AI was garrisoning the northern Italian ports or cities, but with Italians which of course disappeared upon surrender.

I appreciate the general problem with surrenders but perhaps Italy should be a special case. I think Strategic Command had a script that forms the puppet Italian RSI when Italy surrenders.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
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RE: Italian surrender - 6/15/2021 4:11:17 AM   
Professor Chaos

 

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Hmmm... I decided not to exploit the AI and refrained from moving units north in Italy.

But it's been six or seven turns after Italy surrendered, and the Axis AI hasn't moved a single unit into Italy or up to Italy's borders. That seems seriously wrong...

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RE: Italian surrender - 6/15/2021 2:52:23 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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That is not a bad idea Professor. Create an Italian puppet state. Let me think about this.

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- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

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- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

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Post #: 12
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