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RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 9:06:17 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 4906
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
statements from insiders that it's hopeless to expect it ever to be finished border on sabotage


This is me sabotaging the game without giving away what's being developed or personal matters. Bob only wants to sabotage people who disagree occasionally while they praise his efforts.:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

It all sounds great.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Still not finished with it, but I'll post a peek at the Commander Editors:



That does look really good Bob. It should add something to the game. And maybe satisfy all those who think a war game just isn't right without leaders.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

I am really looking forward to being able to assign units to... (redacted) ...game.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Yikes. That a huge change. Great work. So, I'm working on this Barbarossa scenario that uses up almost all the formations on the Soviet side and a large number on the Axis side. Exactly how difficult will it be to incorporate an existing OOB into this new...(redacted)?



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Great, thanks.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Throw in leadership and you get a whole new game.

(redacted)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Lots of man hours there. Much appreciated Bob.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

That would be great. Many have asked for it over the years. Especially those of us with JT games where something like that is standard.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

My head is gonna explode.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

TOAW has never addressed those things. It would take a house rule if I recall correctly.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Ah, got it. Having trouble keeping up now.




< Message edited by Lobster -- 6/21/2021 10:01:06 PM >


_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Wearing blinders and earplugs everything you do is correct.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 121
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 9:08:07 PM   
parmenio

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/6/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Just to repeat. In all software ventures, the developers always fix all know bugs first, there is really no point in moving forward with new features that will undoubtly contain more bugs. A basic software engineering principle for over 60+ years.


+1

I've got 39 years doing this - any other approach where you add new features before fixing what doesn't work is ludicrous beyond belief.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 122
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 9:19:10 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
Existing bugs cause more bugs that cause more bugs and you can go on infinity from there. If original bugs are not fixed then the spawn they cause become even more elusive to eradicate.

Started programming in 1965 on the IBM 360 and a Honeywell. Stopped about 15 years ago.

Edit: Got drawn into Distant Worlds a few years ago. Bugs. Then DLC after DLC released, and original bugs were not addressed. This TOAW III, TOAW IV and the coming TOAW V is the same. Give the customer another bell and whistle and they will forget that basic bugs that make the game unpalatable become the norm. Hey, look at my shiny new shoes (made of cardboard).

< Message edited by DD696 -- 6/21/2021 9:25:04 PM >


_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to parmenio)
Post #: 123
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 9:52:38 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4639
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
What I don't understand is why the bug fixes and new features would have to be released at the same time? You've said that you plan to do both, so presumably it would take the same time whether you fix the bugs first, then add features, or add features first, then fix bugs? So why not fix the bugs first, release that patch to the player base, and then add new features at your leisure? Take all the time you want with the new features, we understand you're short handed and will wait patiently for the new stuff. This way would have the exact same programming time (actually maybe less, because you will have fixed bugs that could cause problems with the new features), the players will get you use the program with fewer bugs in the interim, and you can work on the new stuff without us bugging you...

Instead, from the way you've described bugs ("every little thing...", etc.) it doesn't seem like you attach great importance to them and so I wouldn't be surprised if they are not fixed at all.

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 124
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 10:12:29 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 13019
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
statements from insiders that it's hopeless to expect it ever to be finished border on sabotage


This is me sabotaging the game without giving away what's being developed or personal matters. Bob only wants to sabotage people who disagree occasionally while they praise his efforts.:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

It all sounds great.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Still not finished with it, but I'll post a peek at the Commander Editors:



That does look really good Bob. It should add something to the game. And maybe satisfy all those who think a war game just isn't right without leaders.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

I am really looking forward to being able to assign units to... (redacted) ...game.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Yikes. That a huge change. Great work. So, I'm working on this Barbarossa scenario that uses up almost all the formations on the Soviet side and a large number on the Axis side. Exactly how difficult will it be to incorporate an existing OOB into this new...(redacted)?



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Great, thanks.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Throw in leadership and you get a whole new game.

(redacted)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Lots of man hours there. Much appreciated Bob.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

That would be great. Many have asked for it over the years. Especially those of us with JT games where something like that is standard.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

My head is gonna explode.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

TOAW has never addressed those things. It would take a house rule if I recall correctly.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Ah, got it. Having trouble keeping up now.


And I appreciate that, Jack. But it doesn't excuse you're turning into whatever you've been lately.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 125
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 10:15:38 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 13019
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: parmenio


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Just to repeat. In all software ventures, the developers always fix all know bugs first, there is really no point in moving forward with new features that will undoubtly contain more bugs. A basic software engineering principle for over 60+ years.


+1

I've got 39 years doing this - any other approach where you add new features before fixing what doesn't work is ludicrous beyond belief.


As I've posted elsewhere, bugs that crop up in the features I'm working on will, of course, be fixed as soon as possible.
But these are legacy bugs. They've been there for years and weren't (mostly) the result of anything I was working on (think Ralph). No advantage to fixing those in any particular order.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to parmenio)
Post #: 126
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 10:16:55 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 13019
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

What I don't understand is why the bug fixes and new features would have to be released at the same time? You've said that you plan to do both, so presumably it would take the same time whether you fix the bugs first, then add features, or add features first, then fix bugs? So why not fix the bugs first, release that patch to the player base, and then add new features at your leisure? Take all the time you want with the new features, we understand you're short handed and will wait patiently for the new stuff. This way would have the exact same programming time (actually maybe less, because you will have fixed bugs that could cause problems with the new features), the players will get you use the program with fewer bugs in the interim, and you can work on the new stuff without us bugging you...

Instead, from the way you've described bugs ("every little thing...", etc.) it doesn't seem like you attach great importance to them and so I wouldn't be surprised if they are not fixed at all.


Lots of overhead to any release.

AS I've said, try some of that patience those kickstarters have.


_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 127
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 10:21:18 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
No advantage to fixing those? What an inexcusable thing to say.



_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 128
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/21/2021 10:35:01 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 13019
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

No advantage to fixing those? What an inexcusable thing to say.


What a misquote!

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 129
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/22/2021 3:13:03 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 4906
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


And I appreciate that, Jack. But it doesn't excuse you're turning into whatever you've been lately.


You've attacked me because I said you need someone helping you. Damn, that is such a low life thing for me to do. Be concerned about the game and your health. If you had paid attention to when I said you should take on some help you would understand where that was coming from. Won't make that mistake again.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 6/22/2021 3:19:17 AM >


_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Wearing blinders and earplugs everything you do is correct.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 130
RE: Message for Ralph Tricky - 6/22/2021 2:30:32 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 13019
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


And I appreciate that, Jack. But it doesn't excuse you're turning into whatever you've been lately.


You've attacked me because I said you need someone helping you. Damn, that is such a low life thing for me to do. Be concerned about the game and your health. If you had paid attention to when I said you should take on some help you would understand where that was coming from. Won't make that mistake again.


That's a pretty cleaned up version. I was accused nastily and repeatedly of being the roadblock to any help. But, let's move on. Teams quarrel for a while then they move on.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 131
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