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How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2?

 
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How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/8/2021 1:13:45 AM   
Peresvet

 

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WitE2 is a great game with rules that are sophisticated yet manageable. However, what I find really difficult to manage are my own units and my own war plans. Given the huge number of units and huge map size, it gets really difficult to see the forest for the trees. I find it extremely challenging to plan either offensive or defensive operations. Even if I am able to come up with a beautiful plan, I am hardly able to keep in mind all its details during multiple turns (e.g., the exact advance path or fallback line, the exact front area covered by each army involved in the plan, etc.). It gets especially difficult if several operations are executed in parallel.

I recall there was a great (and simple) feature called Battle Plans in HoI3 (not to be confused with battle plans in HoI4). The idea was that you can draw various arrows, lines, pictures and text directly on the map. And that's it. It was just a drawing tool, but it proved to be extremely helpful. I used this feature extensively to plan both offensive and defensive operations. I used it to draw advance paths for my offences, fallback lines for retreating armies, zones of responsibility for armies. With a plan, every time you move an individual unit, you can clearly see how this unit fits the big picture. In WitE2, on the other hand, all too often I find myself just moving units "forward" without clear understanding how this action fits the big picture, whether this movement is essential or not. I really miss a similar drawing/planning feature in WitE2...

So, I wonder how other players cope with the complexity of planning in WitE2. Do you guys try to remember all the details of every plan? Do you draw your plans manually on paper or in photoshop? Do you use any other tools? Or do you play without too much planning at all? Please, share your experience. I'm sure I'm not the only one who struggles with it.
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/8/2021 4:06:54 AM   
kahta

 

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Instead of thinking about specific lines or plans, I tend to look at the terrain, depots, rail lines, and status of units.

For example, in a test right now for my Endsieg scenario, I had to deploy Panzer divisions in a tight spot during the winter of 42-43 to block a serious Soviet breakthrough in the north. I'd rather deploy them in clear terrain than in woods or marshes, but if it were infantry divisions, I might have deployed them differently.

For offensive operations, I don't fully plan where each division will go, just the role that certain armies and corps will play. Again, it depends on how things play out on the map.

_____________________________


(in reply to Peresvet)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/8/2021 6:44:07 AM   
Parkkicks

 

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I would like to discuss this too. I won't exactly be caught googling military invasion planning tools .

It's VERY hard to keep track of all of it, and I'm nearly sure my head has exploded for trying. I'm about to fire up a new game, and I think I will try notepad... and whatever I can find for a map drawing tool.

(in reply to kahta)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/8/2021 7:55:21 AM   
nukkxx5058


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A map drawing function would be a nice tool ...

(in reply to Parkkicks)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/8/2021 9:42:07 AM   
Stephan61

 

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I simply use a snip of each sector (units toggled off, but with enemy hex on) then mark up the snip to give me the overall plan of actions with highlighted objectives by Turn #

Simply method, but keeps me co-ordinated to start with.

Best placed plans only survive initial contact though.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/8/2021 3:53:28 PM   
username01

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Parkkicks

I would like to discuss this too. I won't exactly be caught googling military invasion planning tools .

It's VERY hard to keep track of all of it, and I'm nearly sure my head has exploded for trying. I'm about to fire up a new game, and I think I will try notepad... and whatever I can find for a map drawing tool.


I would like the map to show (in text) where your army groups are after Zooming out.

(in reply to Parkkicks)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/8/2021 6:31:56 PM   
pookiebear

 

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I think whats most important is realizing what are they key objectives
Does it need to fast? Is it a lower prio sector? Then u can prolly act more cost efficient in how u choose ur battles
Can it protects it own flanks? Or can the nrighbouring corps help? There is many many decisions to be made and to keep control..its important to realise what are the exact goals to be achieced and then deal with them starting with highest prio...also u should pla ahead as much as you can...that way you can tailormake the armies corpses for specific purposes

For example AGN north is lower prio historicly and the area isnt suited for panzers

Therefor commanders with high morale are great there and aswell are any anti tank support units..ideally also low scores for initiation and mech wouls go well with it (it wouldnt hurt if from 6/10 army corpses in AGN atleast 1 corpsleader is capable of leading a pz division if its needed)

Also paint my friend is highly useful especially for big plans or for example trying to map out the railroad sustem or w/e..it helps alot with staying in control...

< Message edited by pookiebear -- 6/8/2021 6:39:06 PM >

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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/8/2021 8:37:17 PM   
First_Contact_Gamer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephan61

I simply use a snip of each sector (units toggled off, but with enemy hex on) then mark up the snip to give me the overall plan of actions with highlighted objectives by Turn #

Simply method, but keeps me co-ordinated to start with.

Best placed plans only survive initial contact though.

I do the exact same, have a folder that I keep them all in so I can go back and see what I was thinking in previous turns... have always thought about switching to saving as docs or another file so I can add notes though...

I also particularly agree with your Moltke reference!

(in reply to Stephan61)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/9/2021 2:50:10 AM   
GloriousRuse

 

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Ooh. I could write long and probably very boring things here…well, I guess that counts as a warning.

Anyhow, I like to think the best place to start is actually looking at what you have. It sounds almost ridiculously simple, but do you actually know how many corps/armies (or divisions if you feel like really fine tuning it) you have? I have found that my most embarrassing moments come when I’ve been running on autopilot and don’t really know exactly what I have; hard to make a plan with any reality to it if you don’t know what’s in the toolbox to begin with. “I want Kursk!” is well and good, but doesn’t mean much if you don’t resource it. And I think we’ve all looked at a secondary front and gone “huh, I probably shouldn’t have put all those troops there”. A simple listing of what you have and what is actually where does wonders for understanding what you have, and more importantly, what you probably should try to have in various places.

From there, big goals. “I want to be here by this time” type of stuff. A lot of that thinking has been done for both sides up to T17, but between two players in the same league, T1-17 are just the prologue. After that it helps to actually have a think about what it is you want to do. At times when I have a particular thing I want done, I name the operation. This sounds dumb, and obviously isn’t needed, but I find it helps keep me on track for force allocation and tracking the overall effort, as well as gives me short hand for prioritizing resources. If I say, want to destroy half a million Soviets near Voronzeh in November in Case Silver, then it becomes much easier to actually see if I have what I need in place - and if I don’t new stuff goes to Silver or I transfer forces from places that weren’t important enough to name.

Then it’s a matter of phasing. Understanding if this is going to be a four week plan or a four month one is helpful, and you just break it down into the digestible chunks you want done.

So, if I did it right (and that is the tricky part, isn’t it?) I know what I have, know what I want to do, and know roughly the timeline for it to happen. From there it’s mostly a matter of force allocation. Between reasonably equal players, the guy who brings crushing force wins. And if you can’t actually build a crushing force to do what you want, when you want it, back to the drawing board.

(in reply to First_Contact_Gamer)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/9/2021 6:49:43 PM   
ByronBond

 

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I was thinking along the same lines as OP in that having a map layer of basic drawing tools would be great. Having, for example, an axis of advance drawn on the map as you zoom in and out would help me keep the mental picture in place as to what my operational goals are. The vast expanses of USSR and mostly unfamiliar place and river names complicate keeping a good mental picture.

(in reply to GloriousRuse)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/10/2021 12:57:57 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Snip the map into Snip & Sketch (windows 10 utility program) which allows you to draw on the picture. Then save it off. You can then reload the file (it will go into Paint) and keep track of your progress.

(in reply to ByronBond)
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RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/10/2021 2:27:03 AM   
Peresvet

 

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Thanks for your replies, folks! It looks like most of us want to do some level of planning but not always do because of lack of appropriate tools. I don't think screenshots and paint are appropriate tools. Paint is especially inappropriate for *adjusting* plans (e.g. after the initial contact with enemy). I'm sure a specialized tool to create and *edit* plans within the game itself would be highly appreciated by most of the players. Hopefully, the developers read this forum :-)

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 12
RE: How do you make and execute war plans in WitE2? - 6/10/2021 2:59:13 AM   
First_Contact_Gamer


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Joined: 4/12/2021
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peresvet

Thanks for your replies, folks! It looks like most of us want to do some level of planning but not always do because of lack of appropriate tools. I don't think screenshots and paint are appropriate tools. Paint is especially inappropriate for *adjusting* plans (e.g. after the initial contact with enemy). I'm sure a specialized tool to create and *edit* plans within the game itself would be highly appreciated by most of the players. Hopefully, the developers read this forum :-)


Agreed, and they do, they even have a features request sub forum setup where you may want to see about this being moved to if you have some suggestions.

I would say though that we should probably stay a little realistic of features that could be added. Not saying this one is impossible but consider that this in game tool would likely require a rework or serious modification to the game engine. No such similar capabilities exist today within the game to interact with the map beyond tool tips and right click menus. One possible option to move forward with suggesting may be a DLC toolkit of sorts, that may even be supported by the modding community, that lives outside the game. For example WITP:AE has some fantastic 3rd part tools such as WITP Tracker and Seabee.

I love the idea and agree with you but not sure it could be added to this generation of the game. Maybe some of the 2by3 guys could prove me wrong as a Debbie downer to the idea.

(in reply to Peresvet)
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