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Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game

 
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Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 5:04:20 PM   
Numdydar

 

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To all the Japanese Fan Boys (JFBs) which includes me btw, Japan will lose.

The fact that the game has set up things to allow Japan to 'win' at all so JFBs can have 'fun' has made the game the a very poor recreation of the PTO. To be honest if I am going to play a fantasy WWII PTO game, I might as well play Japan in Hearts of Iron. That's 'fun' too.

The issue is that with any PTO game, how do you get people to want to play Japan. The main reason that people play Japan in War in the Pacific AE (which I also do) is to see if they can do 'better' than historical. Again spoiler alert, you cannot. The main reason for that is the hindsight by both players.

The Allies know all they need to do is get a supplied airfield within bomber range of the Home Islands (HI) and it is game over for Japan.

Japan knows that there is very little they can do to stop this. So why bother trying.

Which is why there are only two games now that are just about the PTO, this one, and WitP AE. Obviously not counting games like Pacific war, while fun, another total fantasy game on the PTO. As very few people are willing to take an obviously losing side and spend time playing it if they cannot 'win'. No matter how many facts/history have to go by the wayside to do so.

Most people are not aware of just how big the gap was between the US and Japan was in WWII. Here is a good link to highlight just how bad it was for Japan.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

Please tell me how any Japanese player could even come close to 'winning' against those odds. Even without the bomb.

So instead we have War Plan Pacific trying its best to allow Japan to have a 'win' and screwing up the entire game by doing so.

I was REALLY hoping for a historical based WitP AE lite game. But what we have is just a lite turn based HoI game instead. Definitely not what I was looking for.
Post #: 1
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 5:47:12 PM   
miljkovics


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Speaking as JFB (I always play as Japan in PTO games)...I very much like that you need to be very aggressive at start, cautiously aggressive in second part of '42 and early '43 and defending aggressively afterwards.
I played one 1941 campaign of WPP as Japan and won overwhelmingly against AI...waiting for new patch to start new game and possibly PBEM afterwards.
But, since I'm missing depth of WitP (didn't played AE), I'll most probably end up buying WitP AE and play that again. For me, greatest fun was in tailoring production to my preferences, assigning specific leaders to fleets/armies and carefully planing you need to do while preparing for decisive battles with Allies. I guess I'm too hooked up to GG's type of games

On other hand, WPP has a great potential to appeal to much larger public...and I greatest respect to Alvaro for taking on such big game alone

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 2
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 5:50:24 PM   
Friedrich3

 

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Fruitless discussion. Read a history book if you want a 1:1 recreation of history. All games are fantasy because they are games. It is the intention of a game to have fun. Why should I play the Confederates, the Germans, the Japanese or Carthage if there were no chance to change history? Maybe this game is not your cup of tea. But you will not find one single game that is a pure recreation of history.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 3
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 6:39:08 PM   
CrackingShow

 

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What? How is allowing the Axis to win screwing up the game? Making it so that either side can win makes the game fun lol, I'm not interested in 100% guaranteed losing unless the Allies throws away half a dozen carriers.

(in reply to Friedrich3)
Post #: 4
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 7:43:36 PM   
stjeand


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The game will move more towards historical over time...as tweaks and fixes for flaws are found.
If not they yes I might be like HOI but I do not think it will be at that point.

Games that say on the cover...Hey play this game and you will lose 100% of the time but heck you should have fun.
Not normally a big seller.
I am NOT going to a sporting event to watch a team lose 100% of the time. I would keep my money and ignore it.

Japan should win this game if they delay the US long enough which is all they could do in reality and that is what this is about.

Players find loopholes that have to be "fixed" and this is what is happening now. Once they are for the most part fixed things will fall historically in place.


But then what will be said if you fight the Battle of the Coral Sea as Japan and win.
Then win the Battle of Midway.
Then win the next carrier battle...


That is why we play the game.


None of us know what would have happened if the Battle of the Coral Sea and Battle of Midway had been reversed and the US lost their entire carrier force, we can only speculate. Yes they could build them quickly...but that does not help if you lose every battle you fight.
Maybe the it would have taken another year or two to take out Japan...Maybe when the citizens heard that the US navy was failing maybe they would have rioted for peace.



Game must be broken because you had good luck or better planning.

I like to play the Axis because they are supposed to lose but could possibly win.

NOW the Japanese have to be prevented from taking India...that is clear.
The have to be prevented from taking Australia and the US...

Once those issues are worked out I think the rest will fall into place.

(in reply to CrackingShow)
Post #: 5
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 8:17:20 PM   
DaShox

 

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quote:



But then what will be said if you fight the Battle of the Coral Sea as Japan and win.
Then win the Battle of Midway.
Then win the next carrier battle...


That is why we play the game.



In PBEM games I don't see you playing the "coral sea" or "midway" - there is no incentive for the allies with the risk of losing all your carriers.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 6
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 8:17:29 PM   
CrackingShow

 

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Or if the Japanese simply don't do the Battle of Midway, and instead wait until they have their six carrier force up and running once again.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 7
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 8:26:53 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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Japan never thought it could win a clear cut military victory against the US. They only had to last until the US got tired and made peace.

The US does economically overpower the Japanese but the US also had a much larger war going on in Europe.

Japan made a huge number of tactical and strategic mistakes so it is entirely possible they could have out lasted the US with better handling.

So this is a game of can I do better than historical. Almost all WW II games are this type. Just with some a real victory is possible but not always.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 8
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 8:43:44 PM   
eskuche

 

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The excellent board game Empire of the Asian mandates progress by Allies or risk loss of public opinion.

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Post #: 9
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 10:26:50 PM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: miljkovics

Speaking as JFB (I always play as Japan in PTO games)...I very much like that you need to be very aggressive at start, cautiously aggressive in second part of '42 and early '43 and defending aggressively afterwards.
I played one 1941 campaign of WPP as Japan and won overwhelmingly against AI...waiting for new patch to start new game and possibly PBEM afterwards.
But, since I'm missing depth of WitP (didn't played AE), I'll most probably end up buying WitP AE and play that again. For me, greatest fun was in tailoring production to my preferences, assigning specific leaders to fleets/armies and carefully planing you need to do while preparing for decisive battles with Allies. I guess I'm too hooked up to GG's type of games

On other hand, WPP has a great potential to appeal to much larger public...and I greatest respect to Alvaro for taking on such big game alone


I agree about this game is much more accessible than WitP But I'm afraid that it is giving a huge number of people a completely false idea of how the war had to be fought in the real world.

But since you are going back to AE as Japan, have you looked at my Japanese Production Primer for AE ?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605

(in reply to miljkovics)
Post #: 10
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 10:48:59 PM   
stjeand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: miljkovics
I played one 1941 campaign of WPP as Japan and won overwhelmingly against AI...waiting for new patch to start new game and possibly PBEM afterwards.


You need to play a human to get the best experience...

Yes a patch is needed to fix some issue.

And perhaps even a more historical scenario will need to be created.


And lets all be clear here...this is a G A M E...NOT a simulation.

You want a simulation this is not it.

A game implies either side can win.



What I think will have to happen is the Axis will need to be given more VP locations...When a more historical scenario is created so that the Japanese can just get hammered all through 43 / 44/ 45 but still win due to holding locations that perhaps they were not able to historically.


(in reply to miljkovics)
Post #: 11
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 11:03:07 PM   
incbob


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This game has potential.

It does need to follow history better.

We need to better understand what "winning" should look like.

For the player as Japan winning should look like a quick expansion with domination, a short period where they are equal to the Allies, then complete domination by the Allies as Japan hopelessly scrambles to delay and frustrate the Allied attack ending with no fleet and the Home Islands under Allied bombing. Then, at the end of the game Japan and Allies compare totaled VPs and finds out Japan has a higher number and won. Any other way for Japan to "win" and I will return to playing Hearts of Iron 4 and waiting for World in Flames.

For the Allies the game should be watching Japan have domination while trying to build up and conserve forces. This does NOT mean they should be neutered and castrated as they are at the start of the 41 scenario now. It should be the Allies picking off Japanese units where they are until they have 4-6 CVs and then, when the Allies feel the time is right try for a Midway type Battle. Eventually in Mid-1943 to late 1943 it won't matter and the Allies will have such a strong force that they should steamroll right up to the Japanese Home Islands destroying all in their way. Then at the end of the game they compare VPs with the Japanese to see if the Allies "won."



(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 12
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 11:10:29 PM   
eskuche

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: incbob

This game has potential.

It does need to follow history better.

We need to better understand what "winning" should look like.

For the player as Japan winning should look like a quick expansion with domination, a short period where they are equal to the Allies, then complete domination by the Allies as Japan hopelessly scrambles to delay and frustrate the Allied attack ending with no fleet and the Home Islands under Allied bombing. Then, at the end of the game Japan and Allies compare totaled VPs and finds out Japan has a higher number and won. Any other way for Japan to "win" and I will return to playing Hearts of Iron 4 and waiting for World in Flames.

For the Allies the game should be watching Japan have domination while trying to build up and conserve forces. This does NOT mean they should be neutered and castrated as they are at the start of the 41 scenario now. It should be the Allies picking off Japanese units where they are until they have 4-6 CVs and then, when the Allies feel the time is right try for a Midway type Battle. Eventually in Mid-1943 to late 1943 it won't matter and the Allies will have such a strong force that they should steamroll right up to the Japanese Home Islands destroying all in their way. Then at the end of the game they compare VPs with the Japanese to see if the Allies "won."


The game doesn’t *need* to do anything. The vision is up to the game designer. Threatening to play other games is probably not helping your case…

(in reply to incbob)
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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/3/2021 11:56:54 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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WPP is more intricate in the balance of play than WPE. Thus why I did it second.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 14
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 1:35:29 AM   
incbob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche
The game doesn’t *need* to do anything. The vision is up to the game designer. Threatening to play other games is probably not helping your case…



Take a moment and look at the type of games that Matrix Games publishes. They are usually more intricate, complex, and nearer to history than mainstream productions.

What I am saying is that if a small time game tries to do the same thing bigger mainstream games do why is someone going to want to play it? You have to give people a reason to spend $40.00 on your game versus everyone else's. If all you can say is, "We do what everyone else does, just different." Then how many takers do you think you will get.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlavaroSousa
WPP is more intricate in the balance of play than WPE. Thus why I did it second.


It is completely different than the European theatre, even in scale. This is what makes making a single Global game difficult.

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 15
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 1:46:35 AM   
AlvaroSousa


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Totally difficult but World in Flames managed and they were super successful with dual scale maps

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 16
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 11:51:51 AM   
stjeand


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I have no problem with criticizing the game...that happens everywhere and always will.

ALL I say is if you are going to do so...offer suggestions.

Most here are doing that and I am fine with that.

It would be like going to a car dealer and saying I would never drive one of your cars...they look like buses.
Okay then why are you here? Go to the dealer you want to buy a car at.


I think WE need to create a historical PBEM ONLY scenario because the AI may not be able to handle the changes which is fine.
I suck at the editor...I have tried but can not figure out much.
I can handle the events file for the most part, which can do many of the things a historical scenario will require but what it can not do from what I have seen...

Create victory locations, say Iwo Jima, Guam, Wake, just examples...
Add locations that have to be taken for surrender...
Change the Indian ports to not provide supply for the Axis (maybe it can)

But it can...
Give the Japanese X oil per turn as they open their war reserves prior to the falling of the DEI
Change unit sizes and stats for one side...


Thing like that.

< Message edited by stjeand -- 6/4/2021 11:53:52 AM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 17
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 3:42:28 PM   
Numdydar

 

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Maybe it is just me, but I do not have to 'win' to enjoy playing a game. When I play Japan, in pretty much every game where things are balanced, I know I will lose. But I still enjoy playing the game. It is the journey, not the destination lol.

That is why I started this thread about Japan 'winning' is ruining the game. Apparently, for a game to be fun and have meaning, people have to have some path to 'winning' otherwise they will not play. So in WPP's case let's throw history and actual historical data out the window so Japan can 'win' regardless how absurd that is compared to the real war.

Should Japan be allowed to do different things than historical - Yes
Should japan be able to invade HI, India, Oz? - Yes once certain milestones are met
Should Japan be able to invade the DEI on turn 1 - Yes. But only if they give up invading somewhere else instead. Japan had 3 major invasions, Philippines, Malaya, and North Borneo. As I have pointed out before they did not have the invasion craft to support more than this. So if Japan wants to invade somewhere else on Turn 1, they should have to give up one of these other invasion locations to compensate. This is how WitP handles it. You have X amount of invasion fleets in the game. You can send them anywhere you want. But you have to decide what trade offs you are willing to accept by doing things different than historical.

In one game in WitP, I did try and invade the DEI at the beginning and my fleet got slaughtered due to being spotted and having the Dutch fleet react to my fleet. Which makes sense since even though no one was technically at war yet, Planes and ships were still searching their areas to see if anything odd was going on. So if Japan wants to invade other locations different from historical on Turn 1, they should be allowed to do so as long as

- there should be some 'cost' to do so. I.E. Giving up a historical landing site to do so.
- There should be some kind of 'risk' involved. Maybe just a simple die roll against an event table is all that is needed. Roll a 6 and all is good. Roll a 1 and all is dead lol.
- and there needs to be a range limitation on how far they can invade on Turn 1.

To all my detractors, I do NOT want to force everyone to play Japan historically. I want Japan to be able to do wild and crazy things within HISTORICAL constraints. Is that too much to ask for? The sad thing is that this game is so close yet so far from being able to do that. which is why threads like this keep popping up.

Hopefully, this will all be addressed as I know Alvaro does care and will adjust things as he sees fit. Hopefully to the point where the '41 start will make at least a little more historical sense than it does now. And rework things so Japan having to 'win' ignores so much history.





< Message edited by Numdydar -- 6/4/2021 3:43:46 PM >

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 18
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 4:05:12 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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That is what the scenario balancing is for. I can't predict everything in the first volley out the Gold Release door.

So modifications have been made and I immediately uploaded today's campaign files hoping the installers have not pulled them.

So for example the NEI - You can't take them out on the 1st turn. You need to land elsewhere take a port and move up now.
India, Australia, Pearl Harbor, and hopefully if this gets in the West Coast will be protected as now they require the Axis to control ports to be able to supply them.

The supply issue was something I realized a while ago. I took sometime to figure out how WitP did it and spoke to a developer. This was after WPP was in Beta testing. I realized some of these issues. Took me about 3 days to figure out the solution to this which is port suppression if key ports are not captured in turn. This kept is simple and gave ample time for the opponent to prepare. It also forced garrisoning and protection of rear assets for both players instead of emptying out their coffers throwing everything + the kitchen sink at something.

But everything needs small steps so all of you lovely players and lovers or WarPlan can break my game in the next step so I can fix it.

I read all the posts every day and think about what players are saying. Then I adapt. Some solutions players come up with are good in theory but not good for the game or too hard to implement in terms of coding, time, complexity and mechanics. Others are good. Others give me ideas to work around.

This coming patch of WPE should solve the huge BIG BEF issue with 100 strength gone from the UK starting forces. But WPE has been out for 18m.

Even Hubert is patching his games for balance as players find exploits.

Patience, time, dedication, and everyone here help make it a better game.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 19
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 4:23:15 PM   
stjeand


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To accomplish slowing down the invasions...the only way I see it would be to limit the Japanese LC to say...20 and give them 20 per turn...

They could save them up to get a "larger" unit to land but give that, yes they could land a bunch of small units but only 2 divisions or 1 division and some smaller units.


That would work for me.

They just need to keep getting them back....


OR IF it could be designed that they have 20 LC...and get up to a max of 20 per turn for say the first 8 turns? So if they don't make use of them they go away.

That would be interesting. The Japanese if they decided to land say in Australia they would NOT be able to land somewhere else...

They could build more but that takes months...and would be after the first set of LC.

Alvaro is that possible in the Event file? Would like to test that...basically every turn remove all LC then add 20 for use that turn for the first 6 to 8 turns.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 20
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 4:31:04 PM   
eskuche

 

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Alvaro, thanks for the input. It might be helpful to biweekly or so publish a dev log so there is visibility on what you're doing. I'm sure you are spending a lot of brain calories reviewing everything, which is great. Having explicit input on your thoughts would probably mollify a lot of concerns. You are probably overloaded with adding features and removing bugs, and tossing scenario balance on top of that may be too much.

It might be better for the community to explore custom layouts, with reported AARs, to see how different changes play out without going through the slow patch process.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 21
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 4:40:30 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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As a game developer there is a lot more behind the scenes than players think there is. Every idea to change takes a considerable about of hours to perform. Thinking about an idea takes about 2 hours to sometimes 3 weeks. the mean on time it takes to implement a new concept to the game is about 8 hours. Like I added a "Y" toggle to the upcoming patch that will popup the names of convoys on the map for players during their turn. That took 12 hours to implement, test, change, retest, change the visual again, and be satisfied with it. It didn't include the thinking part which was another 90m when the idea popped into my head. On top of that the 1-2 hours that got me the idea reading responses on the forums over a few days about the issues players were encountering with convoys. I saw a problem of understanding convoy lanes and figured out that there isn't a sufficient system to view the different convoys. I thought what is the real issue here and how can I rememdy it. Total ~15 hours for one small feature.

Game development is a lot of time pre and post release. Helps if you love your project.

< Message edited by AlvaroSousa -- 6/4/2021 6:43:04 PM >


_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 22
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 6:06:43 PM   
CrackingShow

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

As a game developer there is a lot more behind the scenes than players think there is. Every idea to change takes a considerable about of hours to perform. Thinking about an idea takes about 2 hours to sometimes 3 weeks. the mean on time it takes to implement a new concept to the game is about 8 hours. Like I added a "Y" toggle to the upcoming patch that will popup the names of convoys on the map for players during their turn. That took 12 hours to implement, test, change, retest, change the visual again, and be satisfied with it. It didn't include the thinking part which was another 90m when the idea popped into my head. On top of that the 1-2 hours that got me the idea reading responses on the forums over a few days about the issues players were encountering with convoys. I will be no one even realizes what I am talking about either. But I saw a problem and thought what is the real issue here and how can I rememdy it. Total ~15 hours for one small feature.

Game development is a lot of time pre and post release. Helps if you love your project.

Thanks for all you do dude!!!

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 23
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 8:28:10 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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Now tell the truth.
Has anyone ever finished a War in the Pacific Admiral Edition game?

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Post #: 24
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 9:59:17 PM   
eskuche

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Now tell the truth.
Has anyone ever finished a War in the Pacific Admiral Edition game?

I just finished the tutorial and manual and it only took a week (!)

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 25
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 10:00:18 PM   
sveint


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Suggestion: reduce the distance transports can move per turn.

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RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/4/2021 10:34:22 PM   
gwgardner

 

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My kneejerk reaction to these threads is: why not try house rules or simple editor changes to test ways to avoid the ruinous situation indicated by the OP? Then report on them, and see if the developer would incorporate them officially?

I don't think the game's ruined.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 27
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/5/2021 3:23:34 AM   
ago1000


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

To accomplish slowing down the invasions...the only way I see it would be to limit the Japanese LC to say...20 and give them 20 per turn...

They could save them up to get a "larger" unit to land but give that, yes they could land a bunch of small units but only 2 divisions or 1 division and some smaller units.


That would work for me.

They just need to keep getting them back....


OR IF it could be designed that they have 20 LC...and get up to a max of 20 per turn for say the first 8 turns? So if they don't make use of them they go away.

That would be interesting. The Japanese if they decided to land say in Australia they would NOT be able to land somewhere else...

They could build more but that takes months...and would be after the first set of LC.

Alvaro is that possible in the Event file? Would like to test that...basically every turn remove all LC then add 20 for use that turn for the first 6 to 8 turns.


LandingCraft=number – changes the landing craft pool + or - the number
(ie: LandingCraft = 20 (adds 20 to current #) LandingCraft = -20 (subtracts 20 from current #)

I don't think you can set it to 0 in events because the command simply adds landing craft to your current number. Since you don't know how many you use in a turn, you can't predict what to subtract. However, with that said, you could start off with 20 and add 20 each turn easily. If you are using up all 20, that will set it to zero.

Go into the editor, in the Japanese Information pane enter 20 instead of 200 for landing craft. Then add the following lines for the number of turns you want to test in your events.txt. Just need to change the dates.


$ModifyCountry
if_Date=12/7/1941
actionCountry=8
lifespan=tillTrigger
landingCraft=20
addReportTo=Axis
text=20 landing craft added to Japanese pool
$End


$ModifyCountry
if_Date=12/21/1941
actionCountry=8
lifespan=tillTrigger
landingCraft=20
addReportTo=Axis
text=20 landing craft added to Japanese pool
$End

etc...

Note: Always make a backup before changing the events file and you must load scripts in the editor before you save your scenario.
Hope this helps.


< Message edited by ago1000 -- 6/5/2021 3:25:45 AM >


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(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 28
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/6/2021 9:50:53 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 6834
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Now tell the truth.
Has anyone ever finished a War in the Pacific Admiral Edition game?


Never.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 29
RE: Japanese 'winning' is ruining the game - 6/6/2021 3:31:18 PM   
Meteor2


Posts: 423
Joined: 7/20/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Now tell the truth.
Has anyone ever finished a War in the Pacific Admiral Edition game?


Never.


Never. 😁

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 30
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