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1941 possible fixes - 6/1/2021 6:35:01 PM   
stjeand


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From: Aurora, NC
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Just thoughts...others please add / comment

Alvaro let use know if any of these are even possible...


1) Amphibious Invasion tech...
Would it be possible to add that based upon your tech level certain size units can use LC? i.e. 1941 tech lets Divisions use LC. 1942 tech lets Small Corps/Half Armies use LC, 1943 lets large corps, 1944 lets Mech / Armor.
Honestly I don't see much use in this tech. I don't care if my unit has lower

THIS would slow the Japanese advance into heavily defended areas until they raised the tech, India, Australia...yet allow them to capture islands that have small garrisons with marines / divisions.

2) If India is invaded perhaps they get a home-guard like the US does? That would give them some free troops to fight back and perhaps Japan would not be interested in India at that point and hold their advance after getting the oil resource like the 42 scenario.
OR India needs their divisions to be a bit stronger to stave off an invasion. If most of their divisions were close to full strength and their corp split up...they would be able to defend.
Maybe even take their mountain troop and turn it into a "homeguard" that can only move 2 with higher defense and lower attack. Not sure if you can lock units to their OWN territory but you seem to be able to do what with the Chinese and the Allies but that might be country wide...
BUT IF India is too strong then they may just turn all their attention to Australia...which probably can not hold out if the Japanese send everything and the kitchen sink...An Australian Home-Guard? Maybe...UNLESS option 1 occurs. Then not sure this is needed. India and Australia could hold out if only Marines and Divsions could land. Though Aus might need a few more small units to guard ports...again Paritan type...

3) Move some Japanese LC and Transports to the deployment queue like the Allies so they are not all available on turn one. IF this is done some units may need to be reduced in size to allow more to be transported so that they can capture islands quickly enough. What should not be able to have happen is the Japanese load up an Army and ship it, taking 3 turns say to get to the Indian coast and by then have enough LC to land. NOW if the Indian army is larger the Japanese may not bother.

4) Move Japanese Armies off the ports...so they have to wait to turn 2 to get on a transport, IF you can not do option 1 and/or option 3.

5) I know you added to the DEI so I will wait to comment on that but you could reduce the Japanese units so that they could not take it right away...of course giving them more oil to start to compensate. THOUGH I would make this a turn based so that if they do take the DEI early due to a good weather turn or some thing crazy like that it would stop the free oil. Yes some historians might not like this but with random weather you have to have some sort of failsafe.

6) The Japanese need a "small" unit...like in the 42 scenario where they have 20 2/10 Divisions. I suggest they get to build something like a Partisan...it is a 3/3 and can transport but NOT use LC. That would be perfect. OR covert the Mtn troop to something smaller...NO Japanese player should EVER build one of those.


Post #: 1
RE: 1941 possible fixes - 6/1/2021 6:48:47 PM   
Stelteck

 

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I would really love to be able to build dirt cheap small infantry defensive units (non mergeable brigades ?) usable only as garrison. Having to use a full division to garrison remote ports, island and capital is a waste.

(in reply to stjeand)
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RE: 1941 possible fixes - 6/2/2021 8:29:42 PM   
Numdydar

 

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SNLF were a major part of Japan's forces. Designed to invade and hold minor areas like described above. Here is want they were like.

quote:

The strengths of each SNLF ranged from the 200 to over 3000 personnel. Almost all units were a single battalion with a varying number of companies.

(in reply to Stelteck)
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RE: 1941 possible fixes - 6/2/2021 8:45:40 PM   
eskuche

 

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You can, but you probably have to draw the line somewhere, as this is a corps level game without the granularity of WITP AE. considering each strength point here is 1000-1500 men, how would you even come close to simulating a minor island held by 50 men? It’s simply not within the scope of this game, so you’ll probably have to abstract out the smaller fights.

(in reply to Numdydar)
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RE: 1941 possible fixes - 6/3/2021 4:00:25 AM   
AlvaroSousa


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I thought I answered this.

#1 No, it throws the entire game back to the drawing board and cripples the A.I.
#2 I already did something for India in the coming patch
#3 I already made it harder for them to advance in 1941 to early 1942 in the patch
#4 The patch chances should slow them down.
#5 They can't take it right away. I beefed the NEI
#6 Can't add another unit to the game. Tiny units on a Div/Corps level game creates problems. But there may be other solutions.

As said, this is a corps level game. A tiny garrison is pretty much a non-garrison.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 5
RE: 1941 possible fixes - 6/3/2021 4:13:30 AM   
incbob


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Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Columbia, Missouri
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I think there are lots of ways to go, but I do not know which is better or even what is possible.


== Get rid of all these 1-4 STR land units and use "intrinsic" values. Assume islands have a "defensive battalion" in place. When an island is invaded the invading force, after securing the island suffers 3-4 STR damage to represent the need to replace this Battalion.

== Get rid of the idea that this is an Army/Corps level game and make it a division level game. For a game that is an Army/Corps level game there sure are a lot of divisions running around.

== Let the players build "half divisions," 3-5 STR land units that cannot be reinforced higher. Better yet, let us also build half STR (10) air groups. Again that cannot be reinforced higher.

== Also for larger places, such as the DEI and Philippines, get rid of the (capture one point and take the whole thing) rule. Either that or greatly increase partisan damage in these areas so that the player HAS to garrison them.

== An alternate of making sure the player wants to garrison a place is instead of partisans give the player in question extra VPs for having a unit at a certain point. For example the Japanese player could get extra VPs every turn that they hae greater than 30 STR points of land units in the Philippines.


VPs are how these games are balance, not increasing/decreasing units.
VPs are also how you influence players.

..... Take Guam as represented in the game now (1.00.01). No one would care about Guam, except it is a VP and suddenly it is desirable. This is also how Midway and Hawaii can be dealt with. Make them VPs and suddenly both the Japanese player and the US player have a reason to take and hold them.


One thing I fear is that there is a fundamental error in how supply is handled. Not sure yet, but there are things I like about and things I don't like, but when Japan can put a division in the Marques Islands there is a problem.



I will add this to. Alvaro has admitted that you cannot start the 1941 scenario and get close to when the 1942 scenario starts. If you cannot do 5 months and get close there is now way you are doing 3-4 years.

Edit........

Alvaro had already responded before I submitted my post








< Message edited by incbob -- 6/3/2021 4:16:05 AM >

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 6
RE: 1941 possible fixes - 6/3/2021 6:05:12 AM   
CrackingShow

 

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I think the upcoming changes look [good] and we should just wait and see what the game looks like with the changes.

(in reply to incbob)
Post #: 7
RE: 1941 possible fixes - 6/3/2021 12:19:48 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1249
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline

quote:

#1 No, it throws the entire game back to the drawing board and cripples the A.I.


Okay...well I don't want the AI crippled as some people just play against AI which I totally understand.

quote:

#2 I already did something for India in the coming patch


Okay will wait and see.
Hopefully the patch will be available soon as the game is no longer actually playable if the there are not a ton of house rules. I do not mind house rules...but to have to keep quitting games because you get a a point that things are totally off balance I do not like.

quote:

#3 I already made it harder for them to advance in 1941 to early 1942 in the patch


I would assume in the patch? It not hard at the moment.
India is being invaded on turn 3 with 3+ divisions...there is no way to respond to that.
Turn 6...I think we could work with that...but not so early.

quote:

#4 The patch chances should slow them down.


Okay time to wait and see

quote:

#5 They can't take it right away. I beefed the NEI


Again will need to test.
I presume oil has been added to the Japanese to start or turn based.

quote:


#6 Can't add another unit to the game. Tiny units on a Div/Corps level game creates problems. But there may be other solutions.
As said, this is a corps level game. A tiny garrison is pretty much a non-garrison.


This one baffles me a bit. The Japanese barely have corps and are all divisions...so I am not sure how that makes sense.
I do understand the tiny garrison piece...nothing there means you have perhaps 100 men on the island. I get that.
BUT you still have to take the island with a unit and every hex that it connects too.

In the Pacific the Japanese did not invade islands with Divisions...often as it was not needed.

1) Most islands had few defenders...and were invaded by a few hundred men. Yes you can not simulate this exactly but it strange that you would design one scenario showing this and another saying it is not possible.
2) There are already a bunch of units that are 1/10, 2/10, 3/10 units that honestly I try to use for invasions. Not just because they save LC but because the islands they are invading have no defenses...and there is no way to "turn" them Japanese without an invasion.
This leaves a huge issue...the island stays in the UK / Aus / NZ hands and they get intel.

It appears there is an issue with that. I have taken a port on a small island and the hexes that are controlled by the UK / Aus / NZ stay that way for ever it seems. I know you said they will change once out of supply...but they do not appear too. They stay controlled until they are captured or does it take 6+ months to switch.

If they did not change that makes island hopping required yet impossible with divisions. You have to drop a division...and it will have to be there for 2 months moving 1 hex at a time taking the each hex of the island. If you use a 10/10 that is painful...using a 1/10 makes sense.

So having only 10/10 units is an issue in my eyes for the Japanese just for this reason,

I will have to test some more to see if it is even possible to take all the islands and hexes before the US have enough to start taking them back.

I know you wanted less micro management but this is considerably more.

Not sure how to address this.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 8
RE: 1941 possible fixes - 6/3/2021 3:17:32 PM   
incbob


Posts: 727
Joined: 6/23/2004
From: Columbia, Missouri
Status: offline
Just to clarify my position:
I want to move this game closer to World In Flames and away from Hearts of Iron 4.

Here are my latest suggestions:

== Victory Points. Midway, Hawaii, and Okinawa should be VP's. I am okay with Wake not being one.

== Japanese Garrisons.
One of the issues with the 1941 start was there was little reason for Japan to keep their units on the Philippines, DEI, or Borneo. Invade, take the place and quickly move on.

Slowing down their conquest will help, but what worries me is that the game gives little to no reason for them to stop expanding. They can keep expanding until the US navy gains superiourity which isn't untl 1943 at the earliest. The game needs to give the Japanse a reason to keep units in the DEI, Borneo, and Philippiens.

In my mind there are 3 possiblities.
1- strong partisans.

2- without units the hexes revert back to allied control.

3- VPs. Not sure it can be done, but give VPs each turn a japanese unit of X STR is in X spot.

4- My favorite, don't completely castrate the Allies.


== Japan. I hate to say it, but start them with 40-60 more oil.

== Dream...the ability to build 10 STR air units. This would allow the effective use of the size 1 ports.

== Dream...DEI and Philippines don't fall just because Manila and Batavia taken. This is ahistorical. Make the Japaanese work for their conquest.

== The DEI Airforce should not get to respond to attacks on Singapore on the Dec 7th (turn 1) air attacks. In a related manner give the Japanese a slight bonus to doing damage. I have seen to many times one or both ships are completely untouched. I am okay with them surviving, but surviving beat up.

== Japanese should not be able to finish their conquest of the DEI, Borneo, and the Philippines prior to the end of February.

== Get UK the ability to get more troops and air untis into India. As I have stated elsewhere, the 1942 scenario has UK units in India that the 1.00.01 1941 scenario cannot do. I suggest putting them in as events if you do not want to do.................



== Do not completely hamstring the Allies.
1. Give the UK more land and air units deploying prior Feb-March.

2. Give the UK and the US 20 transports each on Jan 4 or 18th (Turn 3-4). This still gives Japan 2-3 full free turns invade. It gives the Allies the ability to reinforce Australia and India. It also gives Japan a pause. With the Allies now able to do very small invasions they are forced to take VPs and forced to garrison what they take. It also means that Japan has to keep Kido Butai and its carriers around to guard agaisnt Allied movement.

3. Give the US a larger starting oil stockpile. Instead of 15 start them with 50. This doesn't let them go wild, but gives them enough to do a little running around.




< Message edited by incbob -- 6/3/2021 3:20:22 PM >

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 9
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