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Building the soviet army 2.0 in wite 2.0- discussion

 
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Building the soviet army 2.0 in wite 2.0- discussion - 6/1/2021 2:59:25 PM   
vilcum

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/24/2009
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This is a set of question to the big soviet kahunas of the forum to try to know in advance how much has changed the building of the soviet juggernaut in 42/42

I am aware that timing and details are fully dependant on the way the 41 and 42 campaigning goes , but I would thank any guidance on some “basic” points:

- It is necessary /advisable building new infantry divisions?. Has anyone done the math od the “perfect” ratio between total men/number of divisions?
- Wich is the recommended max TOE for base infantry divisions manning the line? (I generally – from wite1 times- shot at 85% for basic infantry div, 100 for guards at least before real offensive operations). I know now it is no more advisable having reduced ToE in artillery units….is it same for infantry?
- How many tank /mech corps should be constructed? I know too many of them would eat my vehicle pool do not plan to have more than 20 tank/mech corps by anytime 42 (btw where do you see now the vehicles/needed ratio)
- Tanks brigades : I have been using them as support almost exclusively, attaching them to cav corps to try to gain exp/wins before using best ones to make tank corps, does anyone use them to man the line?
- Mot Brigades, mostly as tank brig, but now that I have some tanks corps I plan to add one extra to each one (besides an AT regiment) to give them some added resilience
- Tank battalions : did not use them and even though in disbanding but due to big tank reserves I began to attaching them to infantry divisions in critical sectors , does it work the added fuel/vehicles?

- And lastly (though this one has to be somewhere on the manual surely) how does the game manage surrendered GUARD units? does they come back as guards cadres or are they lost forever?

All opinions are welcomed!
Post #: 1
RE: Building the soviet army 2.0 in wite 2.0- discussion - 6/1/2021 3:28:07 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10382
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vilcum

....
- Wich is the recommended max TOE for base infantry divisions manning the line? (I generally – from wite1 times- shot at 85% for basic infantry div, 100 for guards at least before real offensive operations). I know now it is no more advisable having reduced ToE in artillery units….is it same for infantry?
...
- Tanks brigades : I have been using them as support almost exclusively, attaching them to cav corps to try to gain exp/wins before using best ones to make tank corps, does anyone use them to man the line?
...
- Tank battalions : did not use them and even though in disbanding but due to big tank reserves I began to attaching them to infantry divisions in critical sectors , does it work the added fuel/vehicles?

- And lastly (though this one has to be somewhere on the manual surely) how does the game manage surrendered GUARD units? does they come back as guards cadres or are they lost forever?
...
All opinions are welcomed!



general pts - look at the player's notes in the manual, they were written by people who have played the Soviets from 1941-45. Add on look at the pre-release AAR, while its a vs AI game it may give you a lot of information.

Also the sections on building corps and Gds creation.

some specifics:

1 - usual comment, this isn't WiTE1 and I personally find little value to fiddling with the TOEM for Rifle Divisions

2 - they are purely support units so no-one is using them "to man the line"

3 - if there is a consensus, its delete the damn things. They cost you trucks and in 1944 get first call on the T34/44

4 - its not in the manual because its irrelevant. the free returns stop in November 1941, you can't build Gds before then. Lost Gds units ar lost, at best it clears a slot where a new unit can get promoted

_____________________________


(in reply to vilcum)
Post #: 2
RE: Building the soviet army 2.0 in wite 2.0- discussion - 6/2/2021 7:57:40 AM   
Slush

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Danmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vilcum

This is a set of question to the big soviet kahunas of the forum to try to know in advance how much has changed the building of the soviet juggernaut in 42/42

I am aware that timing and details are fully dependant on the way the 41 and 42 campaigning goes , but I would thank any guidance on some “basic” points:

- It is necessary /advisable building new infantry divisions?. Has anyone done the math od the “perfect” ratio between total men/number of divisions?


I'm a far stretch from being a Soviet kahuna, since I'm only in my first GC game as the Soviets. In my game it's end of January 1943, so that's where my advice comes from.

As long as you have the man-power and AP, you might as well build as many infantry divisions from 1942 onwards, as you can. You need them to stop the German 1942 offensive, and even if you don't it's always a good idea to build up a strategic reserve of 20-30 divisions.

quote:

- Wich is the recommended max TOE for base infantry divisions manning the line? (I generally – from wite1 times- shot at 85% for basic infantry div, 100 for guards at least before real offensive operations). I know now it is no more advisable having reduced ToE in artillery units….is it same for infantry?


You don't really need to adjust TOE levels.

quote:

- How many tank /mech corps should be constructed? I know too many of them would eat my vehicle pool do not plan to have more than 20 tank/mech corps by anytime 42 (btw where do you see now the vehicles/needed ratio)


Great question! The answer is that I don't know. I have built 26 so far and attached a motorised infantry brigade to each one them. So now my reserve pool of trucks is really low, which limits by capability to build mechanized corps. I only build a new one, when I'm above 10K trucks in reserve.

In hindsight I should probably have limited myself to 12-15 tank corps in 1942 in order to be able to build the much stronger mechanized corps when they become available.

quote:

- Tanks brigades : I have been using them as support almost exclusively, attaching them to cav corps to try to gain exp/wins before using best ones to make tank corps, does anyone use them to man the line?


Attach them to your cavalry and mechanized corps, and leave the rest as support units, especially in the armies that fight in the open terrain in the south.

quote:

- Mot Brigades, mostly as tank brig, but now that I have some tanks corps I plan to add one extra to each one (besides an AT regiment) to give them some added resilience


Yep, you need that. The 1942 tank corps TO&E makes for a very brittle formation.

quote:

- Tank battalions : did not use them and even though in disbanding but due to big tank reserves I began to attaching them to infantry divisions in critical sectors , does it work the added fuel/vehicles?


loki100 is a WiTE2 veteran. So if he recommends disbanding the tank battalions, it's probably the way to go. I'm a bit wary, though. I my game I believe I have 100+ tank battalions on the map. Disbanding them would remove 3000+ tanks from the front lines which seems a bit excessive. On the other hand I could really need those trucks ...

One other point:

It's been a while since I played a Soviet GC in the "old" WiTE game, but to me it seems that one major difference between WiTE and WiTE2 is about front line unit management.

In WiTE2 units suffer attrition and cannot refit if they are in the front line. So unless you want your frontlines to constantly weaken, you have to make sure that your armies have plenty of reserve units allowing you to constantly reshuffle fresh and depleted units.

I haven't perfected this yet. In my game, I've been on the offensive across most of the front-line since the start of the winter. It coincided with the change to corps as the main infantry formation, so the number of infantry units is substantially lower now. As a result - though I try to rest and refit units when ever possible - my on map manpower strength has dropped from a high of 7.4 million men to a low of 6.8 million, forcing me to rest and rebuild before any general summer offensive.

Rgds, Slush


< Message edited by Slush -- 6/2/2021 7:59:48 AM >

(in reply to vilcum)
Post #: 3
RE: Building the soviet army 2.0 in wite 2.0- discussion - 6/2/2021 12:35:10 PM   
Kel


Posts: 220
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline
just to be clear, I searched wherever for "trucks".
In the production screen "trucks" are labeled "vehicle" - right ?

(in reply to Slush)
Post #: 4
RE: Building the soviet army 2.0 in wite 2.0- discussion - 6/2/2021 6:02:17 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8413
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline
Correct. Vehicle actually includes more than just trucks - it includes all wheeled self-propelled vehicles just as AFVs include all tracked self-propelled vehicles.

(in reply to Kel)
Post #: 5
RE: Building the soviet army 2.0 in wite 2.0- discussion - 6/10/2021 7:20:28 AM   
Slush

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Danmark
Status: offline
I changed my mind, now that my game has moved on to July 1943. Those tank battalions should be disbanded ASAP; you can more than make up for the missing tank strength in heavy and medium tank regiments.

Now I generally disband every battalion sized unit. They are too small to make a difference, but they will still gobble up a sizeable chunk of valuable trucks. Disband them and shoot the commanders of course.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 6
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