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RE: War in the Pacific 2?

 
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RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/5/2021 10:07:34 PM   
Maallon


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I haven't played CMANO either, but I have watched some videos about it so I roughly know what it is about.
As Alpha77 says it is indeed more an operational type of game and not a strategic board game like WITPAE is.
Also it covers a much broader range of history, I think the earliest possible Scenarios start in the 1950s so you can basically play from the beginning of the cold war to modern day and that on a global scale.
And it has a integrated sandbox mode where you can play around with fictional scenarios as much as you like.
So it is a far more versatile game than WITPAE and targets a much broader audience which is likely its reason for its success.

I actually don't know if it is really far more popular than WITPAE. Luckily with steam, we got some tools at our disposal through which we can analyze, namely the website called steamcharts.
It shows you how many people are currently playing a game and how many played since the release of the game on a timeline.
This doesn't necessarily reflect how many sales a game moved, but it does reflect how popular a game is and how loyal its players are.
Looking at CMANO it has roughly 75 players who play it on average at any given time.
As WITPAE is not on steam I looked up WITE1 for reference and it had slightly lower number for active players with a rough average of 65 players.
At least before the release of WITE2, the number dropped rapidly after that.
So assuming that this ratio also applies for the matrix store and WITE is more popular than WITPAE, it can be indeed safely said that CMANO is more popular than WITPAE.
But given the age of WITPAE it is also very much possible that it moved far more copies over its lifetime than CMANO has as of now and also that WITPAE had far greater number of average players at some point during its life than it has now. So it is very hard to compare the two games given their different age alone, so to conclude I think they are indeed apple and oranges as you said.

On another interesting note: I also looked up War in the West while I was at it and it has a far lower number of active player with an rough average of 10 players.
I would dare to claim that WITPAE has more than 10 players playing it at any given time looking at the activity of this forum alone, so economically speaking a WITP2 would probably be more viable than a WITW2.

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 61
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/5/2021 10:19:15 PM   
elxaime

 

Posts: 300
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

I haven't played CMANO either, but I have watched some videos about it so I roughly know what it is about.
As Alpha77 says it is indeed more an operational type of game and not a strategic board game like WITPAE is.
Also it covers a much broader range of history, I think the earliest possible Scenarios start in the 1950s so you can basically play from the beginning of the cold war to modern day and that on a global scale.
And it has a integrated sandbox mode where you can play around with fictional scenarios as much as you like.
So it is a far more versatile game than WITPAE and targets a much broader audience which is likely its reason for its success.

I actually don't know if it is really far more popular than WITPAE. Luckily with steam, we got some tools at our disposal through which we can analyze, namely the website called steamcharts.
It shows you how many people are currently playing a game and how many played since the release of the game on a timeline.
This doesn't necessarily reflect how many sales a game moved, but it does reflect how popular a game is and how loyal its players are.
Looking at CMANO it has roughly 75 players who play it on average at any given time.
As WITPAE is not on steam I looked up WITE1 for reference and it had slightly lower number for active players with a rough average of 65 players.
At least before the release of WITE2, the number dropped rapidly after that.
So assuming that this ratio also applies for the matrix store and WITE is more popular than WITPAE, it can be indeed safely said that CMANO is more popular than WITPAE.
But given the age of WITPAE it is also very much possible that it moved far more copies over its lifetime than CMANO has as of now and also that WITPAE had far greater number of average players at some point during its life than it has now. So it is very hard to compare the two games given their different age alone, so to conclude I think they are indeed apple and oranges as you said.

On another interesting note: I also looked up War in the West while I was at it and it has a far lower number of active player with an rough average of 10 players.
I would dare to claim that WITPAE has more than 10 players playing it at any given time looking at the activity of this forum alone, so economically speaking a WITP2 would probably be more viable than a WITW2.



Thanks for these insights. It seems to me that with any game, assuming the tech is already there, the research part can be the most time-consuming. WITP:AE has already done that - they have the names of ships, squadrons, pilots, leaders, dates of arrival, performance aspects of airframes, hulls and weapons, etc. So they wouldn't have to start from scratch, and could work with the CMANO engine, if it is as sandbox as you describe.

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 62
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/5/2021 11:11:57 PM   
eskuche

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: elxaime

Thanks for these insights. It seems to me that with any game, assuming the tech is already there, the research part can be the most time-consuming. WITP:AE has already done that - they have the names of ships, squadrons, pilots, leaders, dates of arrival, performance aspects of airframes, hulls and weapons, etc. So they wouldn't have to start from scratch, and could work with the CMANO engine, if it is as sandbox as you describe.


If I remember correctly from a podcast Gary’s databases (excluding AE) were built up over a very long time from previous iterations of these games as well. Im having a hard time imagining parting way with that easily.

Oh, and can confirm RJ bullied me in my very first thread for this game yesterday.

(in reply to elxaime)
Post #: 63
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/5/2021 11:31:34 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche


quote:

ORIGINAL: elxaime

Thanks for these insights. It seems to me that with any game, assuming the tech is already there, the research part can be the most time-consuming. WITP:AE has already done that - they have the names of ships, squadrons, pilots, leaders, dates of arrival, performance aspects of airframes, hulls and weapons, etc. So they wouldn't have to start from scratch, and could work with the CMANO engine, if it is as sandbox as you describe.


If I remember correctly from a podcast Gary’s databases (excluding AE) were built up over a very long time from previous iterations of these games as well. Im having a hard time imagining parting way with that easily.


Copyright protections.

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(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 64
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/5/2021 11:32:37 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

Oh, and can confirm RJ bullied me in my very first thread for this game yesterday.



_____________________________

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Post #: 65
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 2:21:40 AM   
RangerJoe


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Another one:

ideas for witp2 (probaly cant be done in AE)

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2551664

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Post #: 66
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 2:27:20 AM   
elxaime

 

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I suppose none of this matters unless the WITP:AE creators decide they want to keep things going. If the designer said "never again" that sounds pretty definitive.

Then again, Gene Hackman said he'd never do another Western, and Clint Eastwood got him to agree to be in Unforgiven.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 67
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 2:52:23 AM   
RangerJoe


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Another one. So many of these are fairly close to when this game actually came out.

Idea for WITP 2: Re-Writing Post-WW1

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2605400

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Post #: 68
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 3:18:29 AM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Another one. So many of these are fairly close to when this game actually came out.

Idea for WITP 2: Re-Writing Post-WW1

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2605400



RJ, your going to get dirty digging that deep ....GP

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Post #: 69
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 3:19:23 AM   
RangerJoe


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Another one:

WitP2 Wishlist

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2497499

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“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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Post #: 70
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 5:12:36 AM   
RangerJoe


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Again:

C'mon, Matrix... how about a WiTP 2? - 4/13/2011 9:03:21 AM

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2780419

_____________________________

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Post #: 71
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 1:57:40 PM   
USSAmerica


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It is a shame that the origin story of WitP:AE has been lost in the almost 12 years since it's release.

Joe Wilkerson and a very large team of very dedicated WitP fans came together in the most unlikely alignment of the stars to create this wonderful game. Many of the team have moved on. A few of them remain around the forums today. THEY WERE NOT PAID. It took waaaaay longer than anyone initially anticipated. What they managed to accomplish with an already 7+ year old game engine (it started with Uncommon Valor's release in 2002) was almost miraculous. Gary and Joel from 2x3 Games were not involved in the work (aside from some possible consulting which I'm not aware of), but they gave their blessing to the AE team and Matrix to go with the project, after some significant non-disclosure was put in place.

AE is an amazing game, the best wargame ever created in my book, but she has very old bones. Any realistic new edition of WitP would require starting from scratch with a brand new game engine, since that along with the UI is where updating would be most needed. That is just not possible for a group of fans to do. It is not possible for professional game programmers to do without the rights to the intellectual property included in the current version. That won't be granted for free to a professional game development company that wants to get paid for making and selling the game. 2 x 3 Games would and should get paid a significant portion of the profits, not leaving enough incentive for the new developers.

This grand old game is the end of the line unless 2 x 3 Games have a significant change of heart. She's a beauty, and I fully expect to be playing her 10+ years from now. That's an insane lifespan for a computer game. She won't be replaced and will slowly sail into the sunset and sink over the horizon. It's a grand and still sad thought. Perhaps that sadness is what sparks some of the bitter comments on every new thread about WitP 2.

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Post #: 72
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 2:18:51 PM   
Maallon


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Thank you very much for sharing the origin story, I didn't knew this. They certainly did a great job and must have had some amazing dedication towards the game.

I also wholeheartedly agree with the rest you said.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 73
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 2:40:23 PM   
Shellshock


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

She's a beauty, and I fully expect to be playing her 10+ years from now. That's an insane lifespan for a computer game. She won't be replaced and will slowly sail into the sunset and sink over the horizon. It's a grand and still sad thought. Perhaps that sadness is what sparks some of the bitter comments on every new thread about WitP 2.


Thanks for the game biography. It's fun to dream and wish, but I seriously doubt a game with this unique lineage will ever see a sequel. Considering the above, we're probably fortunate we saw it at all.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 74
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 3:21:36 PM   
eskuche

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

It is a shame that the origin story of WitP:AE has been lost in the almost 12 years since it's release.

Joe Wilkerson and a very large team of very dedicated WitP fans came together in the most unlikely alignment of the stars to create this wonderful game. Many of the team have moved on. A few of them remain around the forums today. THEY WERE NOT PAID. It took waaaaay longer than anyone initially anticipated. What they managed to accomplish with an already 7+ year old game engine (it started with Uncommon Valor's release in 2002) was almost miraculous. Gary and Joel from 2x3 Games were not involved in the work (aside from some possible consulting which I'm not aware of), but they gave their blessing to the AE team and Matrix to go with the project, after some significant non-disclosure was put in place.

AE is an amazing game, the best wargame ever created in my book, but she has very old bones. Any realistic new edition of WitP would require starting from scratch with a brand new game engine, since that along with the UI is where updating would be most needed. That is just not possible for a group of fans to do. It is not possible for professional game programmers to do without the rights to the intellectual property included in the current version. That won't be granted for free to a professional game development company that wants to get paid for making and selling the game. 2 x 3 Games would and should get paid a significant portion of the profits, not leaving enough incentive for the new developers.

This grand old game is the end of the line unless 2 x 3 Games have a significant change of heart. She's a beauty, and I fully expect to be playing her 10+ years from now. That's an insane lifespan for a computer game. She won't be replaced and will slowly sail into the sunset and sink over the horizon. It's a grand and still sad thought. Perhaps that sadness is what sparks some of the bitter comments on every new thread about WitP 2.


Yeah, if you take a look at what the combat engine entails from WITE1 and onward, I don't think the Pacific could be easily adjusted for the current under-the-hood mechanics whereby every single rifle is (supposedly) modeled. There also is less and less granular control of the air war, whose hands-on approach and single model scale I really appreciate so far here. I would imagine any sort of sequel would thus in fact need to be generated from the ground up and not rise to even the current level of game.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 75
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 3:42:33 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 17634
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche


quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

It is a shame that the origin story of WitP:AE has been lost in the almost 12 years since it's release.

Joe Wilkerson and a very large team of very dedicated WitP fans came together in the most unlikely alignment of the stars to create this wonderful game. Many of the team have moved on. A few of them remain around the forums today. THEY WERE NOT PAID. It took waaaaay longer than anyone initially anticipated. What they managed to accomplish with an already 7+ year old game engine (it started with Uncommon Valor's release in 2002) was almost miraculous. Gary and Joel from 2x3 Games were not involved in the work (aside from some possible consulting which I'm not aware of), but they gave their blessing to the AE team and Matrix to go with the project, after some significant non-disclosure was put in place.

AE is an amazing game, the best wargame ever created in my book, but she has very old bones. Any realistic new edition of WitP would require starting from scratch with a brand new game engine, since that along with the UI is where updating would be most needed. That is just not possible for a group of fans to do. It is not possible for professional game programmers to do without the rights to the intellectual property included in the current version. That won't be granted for free to a professional game development company that wants to get paid for making and selling the game. 2 x 3 Games would and should get paid a significant portion of the profits, not leaving enough incentive for the new developers.

This grand old game is the end of the line unless 2 x 3 Games have a significant change of heart. She's a beauty, and I fully expect to be playing her 10+ years from now. That's an insane lifespan for a computer game. She won't be replaced and will slowly sail into the sunset and sink over the horizon. It's a grand and still sad thought. Perhaps that sadness is what sparks some of the bitter comments on every new thread about WitP 2.


Yeah, if you take a look at what the combat engine entails from WITE1 and onward, I don't think the Pacific could be easily adjusted for the current under-the-hood mechanics whereby every single rifle is (supposedly) modeled. There also is less and less granular control of the air war, whose hands-on approach and single model scale I really appreciate so far here. I would imagine any sort of sequel would thus in fact need to be generated from the ground up and not rise to even the current level of game.

True about the granularity we currently have, but that is one of the things that some players wanted an option to reduce, e.g. by tasking every air unit at a base to attack the same target with a couple of clicks instead of tasking each air unit separately. That one seems easy enough to create a solution for, but I don't know how much it would bork other parts of the code.

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RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 4:47:28 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

True about the granularity we currently have, but that is one of the things that some players wanted an option to reduce, e.g. by tasking every air unit at a base to attack the same target with a couple of clicks instead of tasking each air unit separately. That one seems easy enough to create a solution for, but I don't know how much it would bork other parts of the code.


Set one air unit to do the task, then set all other of the same model or type to do the same job. Then all are set to attack the same type of target if not the same target.

_____________________________

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RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/6/2021 4:51:02 PM   
eskuche

 

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The key part is that air activity actually is meaningful and tied 1:1 to the models. Searching/recon is crucial. On the Eastern front in Gary’s next game, recon is free and plentiful, and it’s not exactly like the Soviets are going to be surprising you. Air war is automated generally sans manual ground bombing. But when you’re spending hours taking out 10,000 men and the Soviets have 200+ 100s more divisions on the way…

From what I’ve read WitP original had huge air fights which were unrepresentative and that the dispersed raid squadrons seems to have fixed that up nicely.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 78
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/7/2021 12:29:29 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

It is a shame that the origin story of WitP:AE has been lost in the almost 12 years since it's release.

Joe Wilkerson and a very large team of very dedicated WitP fans came together in the most unlikely alignment of the stars to create this wonderful game. Many of the team have moved on. A few of them remain around the forums today. THEY WERE NOT PAID. It took waaaaay longer than anyone initially anticipated. What they managed to accomplish with an already 7+ year old game engine (it started with Uncommon Valor's release in 2002) was almost miraculous. Gary and Joel from 2x3 Games were not involved in the work (aside from some possible consulting which I'm not aware of), but they gave their blessing to the AE team and Matrix to go with the project, after some significant non-disclosure was put in place.

AE is an amazing game, the best wargame ever created in my book, but she has very old bones. Any realistic new edition of WitP would require starting from scratch with a brand new game engine, since that along with the UI is where updating would be most needed. That is just not possible for a group of fans to do. It is not possible for professional game programmers to do without the rights to the intellectual property included in the current version. That won't be granted for free to a professional game development company that wants to get paid for making and selling the game. 2 x 3 Games would and should get paid a significant portion of the profits, not leaving enough incentive for the new developers.

This grand old game is the end of the line unless 2 x 3 Games have a significant change of heart. She's a beauty, and I fully expect to be playing her 10+ years from now. That's an insane lifespan for a computer game. She won't be replaced and will slowly sail into the sunset and sink over the horizon. It's a grand and still sad thought. Perhaps that sadness is what sparks some of the bitter comments on every new thread about WitP 2.


'Nuff said...

_____________________________

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(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 79
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/7/2021 12:33:40 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

It's fun to dream and wish, but I seriously doubt a game with this unique lineage will ever see a sequel.


True, and we must remember to be careful what we wish for, we could just get it.

Personally I doubt we will necessarily like it, when compared to what we have...

_____________________________

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Post #: 80
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/7/2021 11:24:07 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

It is a shame that the origin story of WitP:AE has been lost in the almost 12 years since it's release.

Joe Wilkerson and a very large team of very dedicated WitP fans came together in the most unlikely alignment of the stars to create this wonderful game. Many of the team have moved on. A few of them remain around the forums today. THEY WERE NOT PAID. It took waaaaay longer than anyone initially anticipated. What they managed to accomplish with an already 7+ year old game engine (it started with Uncommon Valor's release in 2002) was almost miraculous. Gary and Joel from 2x3 Games were not involved in the work (aside from some possible consulting which I'm not aware of), but they gave their blessing to the AE team and Matrix to go with the project, after some significant non-disclosure was put in place.

AE is an amazing game, the best wargame ever created in my book, but she has very old bones. Any realistic new edition of WitP would require starting from scratch with a brand new game engine, since that along with the UI is where updating would be most needed. That is just not possible for a group of fans to do. It is not possible for professional game programmers to do without the rights to the intellectual property included in the current version. That won't be granted for free to a professional game development company that wants to get paid for making and selling the game. 2 x 3 Games would and should get paid a significant portion of the profits, not leaving enough incentive for the new developers.

This grand old game is the end of the line unless 2 x 3 Games have a significant change of heart. She's a beauty, and I fully expect to be playing her 10+ years from now. That's an insane lifespan for a computer game. She won't be replaced and will slowly sail into the sunset and sink over the horizon. It's a grand and still sad thought. Perhaps that sadness is what sparks some of the bitter comments on every new thread about WitP 2.


You pretty much hit the nail right on the head there. What made WitP:AE possible was a dedicated team, effective leadership by Joe and Don, and a LOT OF TIME. I mean a LOT.

It's possible a successor game could be made but that would be an incredible amount of work. If those doing it had to rebuild the equipment and unit databases that would make it vastly more again. It would need to be built from the ground up, or make use of a more modern existing game engine. As you say the WitP:AE game engine is old (ancient in computer terms).

I'd love to see it happen though

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 81
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/7/2021 11:37:28 AM   
BBfanboy


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Ok, AB is in for $5K!

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Post #: 82
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/7/2021 2:04:52 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

It is a shame that the origin story of WitP:AE has been lost in the almost 12 years since it's release.

Joe Wilkerson and a very large team of very dedicated WitP fans came together in the most unlikely alignment of the stars to create this wonderful game. Many of the team have moved on. A few of them remain around the forums today. THEY WERE NOT PAID. It took waaaaay longer than anyone initially anticipated. What they managed to accomplish with an already 7+ year old game engine (it started with Uncommon Valor's release in 2002) was almost miraculous. Gary and Joel from 2x3 Games were not involved in the work (aside from some possible consulting which I'm not aware of), but they gave their blessing to the AE team and Matrix to go with the project, after some significant non-disclosure was put in place.

AE is an amazing game, the best wargame ever created in my book, but she has very old bones. Any realistic new edition of WitP would require starting from scratch with a brand new game engine, since that along with the UI is where updating would be most needed. That is just not possible for a group of fans to do. It is not possible for professional game programmers to do without the rights to the intellectual property included in the current version. That won't be granted for free to a professional game development company that wants to get paid for making and selling the game. 2 x 3 Games would and should get paid a significant portion of the profits, not leaving enough incentive for the new developers.

This grand old game is the end of the line unless 2 x 3 Games have a significant change of heart. She's a beauty, and I fully expect to be playing her 10+ years from now. That's an insane lifespan for a computer game. She won't be replaced and will slowly sail into the sunset and sink over the horizon. It's a grand and still sad thought. Perhaps that sadness is what sparks some of the bitter comments on every new thread about WitP 2.


You pretty much hit the nail right on the head there. What made WitP:AE possible was a dedicated team, effective leadership by Joe and Don, and a LOT OF TIME. I mean a LOT.

It's possible a successor game could be made but that would be an incredible amount of work. If those doing it had to rebuild the equipment and unit databases that would make it vastly more again. It would need to be built from the ground up, or make use of a more modern existing game engine. As you say the WitP:AE game engine is old (ancient in computer terms).

I'd love to see it happen though



All, very much true....GP

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(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 83
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/7/2021 3:19:47 PM   
pontiouspilot


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thanks for the refresher....by my optimist leaning your note actually maps exactly how one could proceed to move the game to it's next renaissance. It has been done already once.

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Post #: 84
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/8/2021 1:58:43 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13168
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Here are some more threads asking for another version:

This one was started by a moose, "WITP2 Ruminations (Was "OT:WitE Forum")"

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3153872

If I were King for a day...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3080272

What is Next for this Game

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3057302

New-War in the Pacific?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3053368


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(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 85
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/8/2021 2:07:08 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13168
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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If anything, an updated manual reflecting all of the changes would be nice. I would pay for that if it was a downloadable PDF manual through Matrix. But then again, there may have to be permissions and legal stuff involved so it may not be done. One individual had been working on that but did not receive such nor I do believe support so that individual ended that project.

"updated Manual?"

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3143432

"possible new updated manual in PDF?"

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3036305

I went to the very beginning of the threads before the game even came out and started looking through the thread titles. If the thread title caught my eye, I would read some or all of the thread. There were a lot of changes requests that were done, hence the updates but those were not put into the manual so read the addendums for the updates.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 86
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/8/2021 4:48:01 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9571
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
What might be possible is "enhanced AI scripts".

But as our Andymac can tell, it's not an easy undertaking.

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Post #: 87
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/8/2021 6:01:54 PM   
Moltrey


Posts: 285
Joined: 4/11/2010
From: Virginia
Status: offline
The last time we had a WITP 2 go-around, Alfred participated and downplayed any likelihood of a new version happening. Nothing unusual about that.
However...

At the end of the thread, he made a cryptic post that said something to the effect of:

Matrix Games is open to listening to serious offers.

Obviously I am paraphrasing here as I can't find the thread, but my reaction reading it at the time was WTF??

Perhaps he will drop by and enlighten us as to what he meant by his statement at the time. I was too frustrated at the thread to bother replying weeks later when I finally saw his reply, so it ended.
Personally, I think it would take a new development studio with another scope statement on the pacific war. But, as others mentioned, perhaps we, good wargamers, are just a dying niche that can't hope to compete with the new "Fortnite" world.

As the couple on HGTV loves to say... "How do we eat a whale? One bite at a time."
One can dream I guess.

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Post #: 88
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/8/2021 6:29:22 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 17634
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

The last time we had a WITP 2 go-around, Alfred participated and downplayed any likelihood of a new version happening. Nothing unusual about that.
However...

At the end of the thread, he made a cryptic post that said something to the effect of:

Matrix Games is open to listening to serious offers.

Obviously I am paraphrasing here as I can't find the thread, but my reaction reading it at the time was WTF??

Perhaps he will drop by and enlighten us as to what he meant by his statement at the time. I was too frustrated at the thread to bother replying weeks later when I finally saw his reply, so it ended.
Personally, I think it would take a new development studio with another scope statement on the pacific war. But, as others mentioned, perhaps we, good wargamers, are just a dying niche that can't hope to compete with the new "Fortnite" world.

As the couple on HGTV loves to say... "How do we eat a whale? One bite at a time."
One can dream I guess.

Serious offers means a full fledged business plan, costed and with identified coding resources and timelines. Just saying, "Let's get the community together and start a go-fund-me page does not qualify.

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Post #: 89
RE: War in the Pacific 2? - 6/8/2021 7:59:31 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 153
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline
The community could not fund a WITP2 in the first place, it would be far too expensive, especially with the features that tend to be suggested here.
Approaching Matrix with a realistic business plan could indeed work.

I don't think that we are a dying niche, there are new people coming to the game from time to time after all.
Our niche is just too small to make a lot of money with, the mainstream is where the real money in gaming lies.
Even a somewhat successful mobile game could probably make you far more money than a WITP2.
So development studios in the last couple years tended to go more mainstream to get a bigger market share.

I remember reading that Fortnite made more than 2 million dollars a day in 2018 in revenues and made a total of 1.2 billion dollars in its first 10 months after launch.
For WITP2 to make 1.2 billion dollars in revenue it would need to sell roughly 17 million copies with a unit price of 70$. With 17 million copies the game would make it in the top 100 of best-selling games in history and would be the most popular strategy game ever made. (for example Civilization 5 "only" moved 8 million copies)
Not particular realistic to happen.
Just to show the difference between niche and mainstream.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 90
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