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Are Anti-air guns needed?

 
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Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 10:51:26 AM   
Alcibiades73

 

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I have yet to recruit one. Are they necessary - or are they not all that needed - a la Anti-tank guns?
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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 11:31:04 AM   
Epekepe

 

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Playing as France and USSR: very good, even in frontline.
UK: N.Africa, if axis try hard there with planes.
USA: pacific islands protection.
India: if Japan comes with lot of planes.
Germany: protecting mines, ports, better garrison unit.
Japan: 1942 -> against USA possible landings.

So, yes they are pretty good cheaper units.


(in reply to Alcibiades73)
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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 11:34:28 AM   
Illiniwek80

 

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Pretty essential in protecting Germany from strategic bombing.

(in reply to Epekepe)
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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 4:36:12 PM   
Alcibiades73

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epekepe

Germany: protecting mines, ports, better garrison unit.
Japan: 1942 -> against USA possible landings.

So, yes they are pretty good cheaper units.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Illiniwek80

Pretty essential in protecting Germany from strategic bombing.



Damn, another expenditure item I have to set aside. I almost empathize with the Nazis - so much need, so little resources... :)

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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 8:21:26 PM   
DrZom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Illiniwek80

Pretty essential in protecting Germany from strategic bombing.

But isn't it more cost effective and immediately helpful to buff the target hexes? You can protect more resources with buffs than with units.

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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 9:32:24 PM   
Alcibiades73

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrZom


But isn't it more cost effective and immediately helpful to buff the target hexes? You can protect more resources with buffs than with units.


How do AA guns actually work? Do they attack anything that flies over - or do they only attack those fliers that attack the particular hex the AA guns are on?

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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 10:13:34 PM   
Bo Rearguard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alcibiades73




How do AA guns actually work? Do they attack anything that flies over - or do they only attack those fliers that attack the particular hex the AA guns are on?


AA units protect the hex that they are in and the six adjacent hexes. So it's a bit like artillery. If a bomber attacks an adjacent land unit, the AA unit will fire in it's defense. They get two such "intercepts" shots a turn and they also shoot at para-drops.

The biggest trick with AA units near the front line is in where to position them since you never know for certain where the enemy bombers will attack. Places like the Ruhr or Osaka-Kyoto-Tokyo are going to get razed by strategic bombing sooner or later so those are often prime candidates for an AA unit.


_____________________________

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864

(in reply to Alcibiades73)
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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 10:29:48 PM   
Alcibiades73

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard



AA units protect the hex that they are in and the six adjacent hexes. So it's a bit like artillery. If a bomber attacks an adjacent land unit, the AA unit will fire in it's defense. They get two such "intercepts" shots a turn and they also shoot at para-drops.

The biggest trick with AA units near the front line is in where to position them since you never know for certain where the enemy bombers will attack. Places like the Ruhr or Osaka-Kyoto-Tokyo are going to get razed by strategic bombing sooner or later so those are often prime candidates for an AA unit.



Thanks! But you are presuming that I won't be able to stop the Americans before they get to strategic bombing range! ;)

< Message edited by Alcibiades73 -- 5/28/2021 10:30:16 PM >

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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 10:43:21 PM   
Bo Rearguard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alcibiades73



Thanks! But you are presuming that I won't be able to stop the Americans before they get to strategic bombing range! ;)


Never mind the Americans. It was the Russians who were leveling Japan in one of my first games.

_____________________________

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864

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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/28/2021 11:32:11 PM   
Alcibiades73

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard



Never mind the Americans. It was the Russians who were leveling Japan in one of my first games.


Ah, okay. So I guess the "Strike North" option has its dangers, if Germany doesn't cripple the Soviets in haste...

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)
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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/29/2021 10:07:21 AM   
Platoonist


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Allied bombers based in China or northern Burma and operating in raider mode can slowly wreak havoc on Japan's convoy lines through the South China Sea. Especially with the long range aircraft tech. They don't even have to be maritime bombers although that type does seem to do the most damage. One more reason Japan would want to push the front in China as far back as possible.

_____________________________


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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/29/2021 11:18:59 AM   
Alcibiades73

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

Allied bombers based in China or northern Burma and operating in raider mode can slowly wreak havoc on Japan's convoy lines through the South China Sea. Especially with the long range aircraft tech. They don't even have to be maritime bombers although that type does seem to do the most damage. One more reason Japan would want to push the front in China as far back as possible.


I see; frankly, I think there are too many tiers in Long Ranged Aircraft tech.

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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/29/2021 10:13:42 PM   
DrZom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard


AA units protect the hex that they are in and the six adjacent hexes. So it's a bit like artillery. If a bomber attacks an adjacent land unit, the AA unit will fire in it's defense. They get two such "intercepts" shots a turn and they also shoot at para-drops.

The biggest trick with AA units near the front line is in where to position them since you never know for certain where the enemy bombers will attack. Places like the Ruhr or Osaka-Kyoto-Tokyo are going to get razed by strategic bombing sooner or later so those are often prime candidates for an AA unit.



A basic AA unit costs 100 mpp. With it you protect 7 hexes, not all of which need have targets within. Buffing a hex costs 10 mpp and you know it has a target. So you can buff 10 hexes for the price of a basic AA unit, a net plus of at least three actual targets protected, likely more.

Buffing allows you to react on the next turn when your adversary makes known what he is targeting, something that may take a few turns moving an AA unit if you have one. Buffing you need not invest more than 10 mpp in a given turn and we all know how important an extra few mpp can sometimes be. Granted there are certain areas that are highly likely to be targeted, and an AA unit may be valuable in such areas IN ADDITION to buffs. But you cannot have AA units everywhere while you can buff every likely target.

As you can surmise, I am not a big fan of purchasing AA units. My mind on the topic is open, so if there is a flaw in my reasoning please tell me.

BTW, I like the Sedgwick quotation. July 2, 1864?

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)
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RE: Are Anti-air guns needed? - 5/29/2021 10:40:44 PM   
Alcibiades73

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrZom


A basic AA unit costs 100 mpp. With it you protect 7 hexes, not all of which need have targets within. Buffing a hex costs 10 mpp and you know it has a target. So you can buff 10 hexes for the price of a basic AA unit, a net plus of at least three actual targets protected, likely more.

Buffing allows you to react on the next turn when your adversary makes known what he is targeting, something that may take a few turns moving an AA unit if you have one. Buffing you need not invest more than 10 mpp in a given turn and we all know how important an extra few mpp can sometimes be. Granted there are certain areas that are highly likely to be targeted, and an AA unit may be valuable in such areas IN ADDITION to buffs. But you cannot have AA units everywhere while you can buff every likely target.

As you can surmise, I am not a big fan of purchasing AA units. My mind on the topic is open, so if there is a flaw in my reasoning please tell me.

BTW, I like the Sedgwick quotation. July 2, 1864?



But how much damage does buffing AA do - and how much does an AA gun do? Isn't this the most important question?

Also, an AA gun has some use as combatant against non-air units - as well as a garrison.

(in reply to DrZom)
Post #: 14
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