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how to send oil to finland - 5/13/2021 1:06:59 AM   
jjdenver

 

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when finland joins axis i'm unable to turn on a trade convoy to them even though i have extra merchant marines for germany. i'd like to send them oil - why is this? anything I can do other than establish a land connection?

also do players generally find the sub war effective as germany? is it worth it to build subs?
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RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/13/2021 1:38:28 AM   
AlvaroSousa


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They have to be active.
You create a trade if you have enough MMs.

Sub warfare is worth it. It is an exchange of PPs. You sacrifice X to get 2X until about 1942-1943 then you have to make some other decisions.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to jjdenver)
Post #: 2
RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/13/2021 4:55:31 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

when finland joins axis i'm unable to turn on a trade convoy to them even though i have extra merchant marines for germany. i'd like to send them oil - why is this? anything I can do other than establish a land connection?


You cannot open a trade route to Finland if the port of Helsinki is frozen; you will need to check this on the map. The exception is if you capture Leningrad and can open an all rail route.


quote:

also do players generally find the sub war effective as germany? is it worth it to build subs?


IMHO, it depends. Building German subs is only worth it if you can either:
1. Sink enough MS to put the number of UK MS below the number it needs to carry all of its resources to the UK. This number varies throughout the game, but is about 150. It needs even more to send Lend Lease to Russia. Or,

2. Sink enough MS to cause the UK to spend a good chunk of its production on building MS and escorts.

If either of these is your goal than my advice is that you don't conquer either Norway or The Netherlands until 1941 or 42 at the earliest and perhaps not at all. The reason for this is that when attacked Norway adds 48 MS to the UK pool and The Netherlands adds 30. Those combined 78 MS would take the UK about 8 months to build even if it had the shipyard capacity.

So as the Germans you have 3 strategies to choose from:

1. Don't build any subs beyond the 3 you start with or are in the build queue. This will allow you to build 1 or 2 extra armour for Barbarossa. But be aware that the UK will be much stronger earlier. All those shipyards that aren't building MS or escorts will instead be building landing ships and the British will have more production for air and land forces. It will also have excess MS and production to send to Russia via lend lease. So you better hope that your stronger than usual Barbarossa succeeds, as you may be facing large scale British and US invasions in 42. So even if you are using this strategy you should still send your subs out raiding in the hopes of bluffing your opponent into building lots of MS and escorts for as long as possible.

2. Build 3 or so subs (total 6). This will cost you an armour, but if used properly (and you don't invade Norway or the Netherlands) these should be able to do enough damage to cause the British to build lots of escorts and MS throughout 39, 40 and at least part of 41. This means they may not have enough landing ships to make any large scale invasions. At some point (probably late 41 or early 42) you will have to concede that you have lost the BOA and simply retire your U-Boats to port. This is essentially the strategy I followed in my AAR as the Axis against Hadros.


3. Build 6 to 9 subs (total 9 to 12). If you build this many than you will almost certainly be able to reduce the British below 150 MS and perhaps even below 100. But it will come at a cost as you will not have as large a force for Barbarossa. This is the strategy that Hadros used against me in my AAR where he is the Axis.

IMHO all 3 strategies are equally valid and have there own advantages and disadvantages. Which is one of the reasons why Warplan is such a great game.

(in reply to jjdenver)
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RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/13/2021 1:22:29 PM   
stjeand


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For the German BOA follow Harry's suggestions...

BUT if you opt for option 2 or 3...you have close to a year to change your mind on continuing to 3...I suggest always pushing for option 2 and if you are doing well the you can upgrade to option 3. Never plan option 3 without doing well. If you lose a sub or two early..save the PP for the land war.

In the 1940 scenario do not bother building a single sub. The BOA is over for Germany and they can not effect the UK for the cost of increasing their potential damage.
The 39 scenario is the only viable option for this.


NOW if by some luck you take Gibratar...all bets are off...once the Italian navy hits the seas...release the German surface fleet.
You can normally cripple the UK badly.

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RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/13/2021 2:07:56 PM   
CHINCHIN

 

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I understand that for every MM sunk, the PP it carries is also lost, and the submarines are quite cheap. UK has an important production, if it does not see its convoys compromised it will be able to build many ground and air units with which to attack the axis.

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Post #: 5
RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/13/2021 6:50:34 PM   
jjdenver

 

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Thank you great answers.

How can the brits fight the subs? Is it only by putting escorts on the line? Or is there some use in sending out DD's or CV's to "chase" the subs around or be within some range of the subs to attrit them or protect somehow the convoy lines?

Also how do you take Malta if you want to do that? (same question for Gib I guess).....

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RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/14/2021 3:20:07 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Thank you great answers.

How can the brits fight the subs? Is it only by putting escorts on the line? Or is there some use in sending out DD's or CV's to "chase" the subs around or be within some range of the subs to attrit them or protect somehow the convoy lines?


The most effective way to combat subs is with escorts. You want to have a minimum of 10 escorts in both the North Atlantic and South Atlantic convoy routes (or wherever else the U-Boats are raiding). If you have less than 10 you may find that you are losing a disproportionate number of escorts compared to the number of sub hits you are getting. Since the subs fire first having 11 or 12 escorts per convoy route is even better. But do not make the mistake of building too many escorts and not having enough MS.

Placing CV and DD groups on a convoy line within 24 hexes of the raiding U-Boats will increase will increase the odds (2% per CV and 1% per destroyer) of your escorts locating the U-Boats so they can be attacked.

Building bomber groups with the detection tech to attack subs is next to useless.


quote:

Also how do you take Malta if you want to do that? (same question for Gib I guess).....


Malta is easy if you control the airspace around it. Just place a sub group in raider mode adjacent to it. this will put it out of supply. The UK can only restore supply by sinking your sub or moving their own naval force into Malta. If they do this you use your air groups to sink the British ships. Once the unit on Malta has been out of supply for a few turns you invade.

Gibraltar works the same, but it is obviously more difficult to gain control of the skies as you will forst need to conquer French North Africa.



< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/14/2021 3:21:55 PM >

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RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/14/2021 6:33:04 PM   
jjdenver

 

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Thank you for the sub and malta tutorial.

Is it usually worth it to take Malta?

Also I asked a bunch of questions in the war room sub forum - if you can find time to answer that would be great. ty!

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Post #: 8
RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/14/2021 7:09:03 PM   
stjeand


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Taking Malta may or may not be...it is not overly difficult to take, but again it is worth it.

With the few units the Italians have it is a pain to garrison because it is likely you will have to leave a port ungarrisoned...and that is dangerous.

It is worth it if you take it early I think...keeps the UK navy from using it to refuel...though they are risking attack if they do.
I have seen players put 6 AA there, a fighter and then put ships...that is a rough attack for the Italian airforce...normally a loss.

I try to take it just to keep busy...and it is the one thing that Italians seem to be able to do.

(in reply to jjdenver)
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RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/15/2021 4:51:25 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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I generally agree with Stjeand. As the Axis I almost always threaten to capture Malta by using Italian Subs to put it out of supply. About 1/2 the time the British abandon Malta and I can capture it for the cost of 10 Landing Ships (or not even that if you use a paratrooper). If the British defend it with ships and AA then I can decide whether or not I want to invest the resources to capture it or not. But if the British do defend it, then you will need to move several German air groups to within range as the Italians air force by itself will not be enough. The best time to attack Malta is either as soon as Italy enters the War (when hopefully the British will be occupies elsewhere) or the period from October 40 to March 41.

The one thing I disagree with Steand about is that Malta increases the number of ports the Italians need to garrison. Indeed the only real value of Malta to me is just the opposite, it decreases the number of ports that need to be garrisoned. The reason for this is that units can only invade within a 24 hex radius. So if the Axis capture Malta the Allies can only generally invade within 24 hexes of either Gibraltar or Alexandria unless and until they capture ports in Libya or French North Africa. So with Malta captured, it is generally not necessary to garrison as many ports. Having said this, you will have to be on the constant lookout for Enemy fleets that move within 24 hexes of any ungarrisoned ports.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/15/2021 4:54:02 PM >

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 10
RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/19/2021 8:31:00 AM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

I generally agree with Stjeand. As the Axis I almost always threaten to capture Malta by using Italian Subs to put it out of supply. About 1/2 the time the British abandon Malta and I can capture it for the cost of 10 Landing Ships (or not even that if you use a paratrooper). If the British defend it with ships and AA then I can decide whether or not I want to invest the resources to capture it or not. But if the British do defend it, then you will need to move several German air groups to within range as the Italians air force by itself will not be enough. The best time to attack Malta is either as soon as Italy enters the War (when hopefully the British will be occupies elsewhere) or the period from October 40 to March 41.


Agree but how do you use paratrooper? Are they able to drop on beaches?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

The one thing I disagree with Steand about is that Malta increases the number of ports the Italians need to garrison. Indeed the only real value of Malta to me is just the opposite, it decreases the number of ports that need to be garrisoned. The reason for this is that units can only invade within a 24 hex radius. So if the Axis capture Malta the Allies can only generally invade within 24 hexes of either Gibraltar or Alexandria unless and until they capture ports in Libya or French North Africa. So with Malta captured, it is generally not necessary to garrison as many ports. Having said this, you will have to be on the constant lookout for Enemy fleets that move within 24 hexes of any ungarrisoned ports.


Interesting point, thanks

_____________________________

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You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 11
RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/19/2021 10:08:12 AM   
CHINCHIN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
Agree but how do you use paratrooper? Are they able to drop on beaches?

Directly in the city, since it is empty.


_____________________________

My native language is Spanish, and no English language mastery, sorry.

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Post #: 12
RE: how to send oil to finland - 5/19/2021 6:44:22 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CHINCHIN

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
Agree but how do you use paratrooper? Are they able to drop on beaches?

Directly in the city, since it is empty.



Ah yes if it is empty.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to CHINCHIN)
Post #: 13
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