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Yet another balance thread (1.11)

 
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Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 11:52:54 AM   
Marcinos1985

 

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Hello fellow players,
for some time there wasn't any general thread concerning balance of PBEM in our beloved game. Specific issues were of course discussed, but not a 'big picture'.

Therefore I encourage you to answer a simple question in this thread: Which side is favoured currently - Axis or Allies? Arguments for and against are very welcome, but there is no need to elaborate thousands of words, just let us know what you think. Every player is welcome, no matter how many games you played or how advanced you are.

Developers are also cordially invited, maybe some insight from this thread may be put to use.

To give a good example, I will post my thoughts in next post.



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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 11:55:46 AM   
Marcinos1985

 

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In my humble opinion if 2 very good/elite players meet, Axis is favoured, maybe even heavily. Just check recent AAR's or results from ELO tournament. Probably the last game, when in heavy-weight game Allies won was Cpuncher vs Fafnir, and you may argue it was because failed Sealion.

Why is it so? I may write 20 pages, but will try to keep it short here. I believe the reason is that SC:WaW is balanced around historical dates. Especially attack on France and Barbarossa. Both FRA and USSR have units in production que and their 'delivery' dates strongly suggest that game 'should' be played historically and then everything is generally ok and balanced.

Problem is, the best players are not going to wait for historical dates. They go for France since November and may get to Paris even before both HQ and tanks from que come into action. With USSR it's similar, attack in June is perceived as late one, not normal. You may even attack in March 1941 (or even '40, but there is a house rule against it in tournament). Similarly, Japan can mortaly wound China in 1941 already and switch attention somewhere else nearly fully. I don't think it was intended, Strategy Guide suggests otherwise.

This way, Axis player gets above the curve and is in superior position. So superior, that he/she (assume he for clarity) may close the game late 1942, before USA joins for real. With USSR down, it's GG. This requires a lot of optimizaton and tactical skill (thus why very good/elite players are needed), but it's entirely possible and as aforementioned results show - probable. To have some chance Alied player has to resort to gamey moves, like suicidal landings to trigger some scripts or do at least some damage to Germany (JP is less important) to prolong the game deep into 1943.

On the other hand, in my opinion if 2 good or weaker players face each other, Allies are favoured. And mainly for the same reasons. Only 'good' (or weaker) player will not get above the curve as much, launching Barbarossa early also may be too troublesome. Then you gradually fall behind and crumble under Allied MPP heavy foot.

I believe majority of player base, maybe even 95% (no proof, just feeling) are good or weaker. Therefore buffing Allies may skew the results heavily in their favour in general population, only to somehow even the game out on high level. However, I am pretty convinced Alllies do need some help to make it more balanced between very good players. And intuition tells me we are not that far from that. Buffing France and/or USSR slightly may mess an Axis rush schedule a bit and make Allied chances better.

This comes form my experience. What do you think?


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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 1:03:24 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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@Marcinos1985 --- Great thread, glad you started it, was in need.

Simple Answer: Depends who's playing.

Top Talent: Axis is favored
Regular Dudes: Balanced
Intermediate: Allies
Bums: Allies

*Disclaimer (the word Bum is a boxing term. Do not interpret this as a derogatory meaning of a bum who rides trains without paying. But if the shoe fits, you're welcome to wear it.)

< Message edited by ElvisJJonesRambo -- 5/11/2021 1:09:21 PM >

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 1:06:22 PM   
EarlyDoors


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From the ELO spreadsheet - up to 19 April

Wins
----

Total Axis 48
Total Allies 55

..for the next update I will add this tally
and also try and display some data around results when a player is favoured

i know there is often chat that its easier to play as Allies and harder to master as the Axis
but overall i agree with your sentiment

btw there is a new DE that gives USSR 3 AT units!

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 1:12:43 PM   
Marcinos1985

 

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quote:

btw there is a new DE that gives USSR 3 AT units!

Wait what?

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 1:13:44 PM   
wobbleguts

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

@Marcinos1985 --- Great thread, glad you started it, was in need.

Simple Answer: Depends who's playing.

Top Talent: Axis is favored
Regular Dudes: Balanced
Intermediate: Allies
Bums: Allies

*Disclaimer (the word Bum is a boxing term. Do not interpret this as a derogatory meaning of a bum who rides trains without paying. But if the shoe fits, you're welcome to wear it.)


How is 'bum' a boxing term? Never heard that one.

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 1:17:37 PM   
EarlyDoors


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcinos1985

quote:

btw there is a new DE that gives USSR 3 AT units!

Wait what?



yup, guess its this one

- Added DE 416 and DE 645 from War in Europe to provide the USSR and Germany with dedicated anti-tank units.

looks to be balanced

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 1:19:49 PM   
Marcinos1985

 

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quote:


- Added DE 416 and DE 645 from War in Europe to provide the USSR and Germany with dedicated anti-tank units.


For me, an Allied fanboy, great to hear. Thank you for pointing this out.

Now, back on topic

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 1:28:18 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

@Marcinos1985 --- Great thread, glad you started it, was in need.

Simple Answer: Depends who's playing.

Top Talent: Axis is favored
Regular Dudes: Balanced
Intermediate: Allies
Bums: Allies

*Disclaimer (the word Bum is a boxing term. Do not interpret this as a derogatory meaning of a bum who rides trains without paying. But if the shoe fits, you're welcome to wear it.)


How is 'bum' a boxing term? Never heard that one.


Hello wobbleguts:

Boxing is a dying sport in popularity & participation. Mostly do the advent of the UFC & science showing permanent brain damage & injury risk. The term bum is has been used in Boxing for centuries. The term bum has long been used to describe certain fighters. It's part of boxing tradition/history. Term for a fighter who basically isn't any good, the sort of fighter who will fold after one or two rounds against any half decent opponent

More:
a) An utterly mediocre fighter that any boxer with average skills could easily beat, and whose only use is to pad and inflate the records of other boxers.
b) A fighter that has absolutely no chance to win the fight being discussed. Not even so much as a punchers chance.
c) check the script(s) from the legendary "Rocky" movies. Bum is used over & over again. Mostly by Burgess Meredith, who played Rocky's trainer, Mickey.




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< Message edited by ElvisJJonesRambo -- 5/11/2021 1:45:17 PM >

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 2:07:06 PM   
wobbleguts

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

quote:



Hello wobbleguts:

Boxing is a dying sport in popularity & participation. Mostly do the advent of the UFC & science showing permanent brain damage & injury risk. The term bum is has been used in Boxing for centuries. The term bum has long been used to describe certain fighters. It's part of boxing tradition/history. Term for a fighter who basically isn't any good, the sort of fighter who will fold after one or two rounds against any half decent opponent

More:
a) An utterly mediocre fighter that any boxer with average skills could easily beat, and whose only use is to pad and inflate the records of other boxers.
b) A fighter that has absolutely no chance to win the fight being discussed. Not even so much as a punchers chance.
c) check the script(s) from the legendary "Rocky" movies. Bum is used over & over again. Mostly by Burgess Meredith, who played Rocky's trainer, Mickey.

You must not follow competitive boxing,
-EJR



I'm British. The Britich invented modern boxing in 1865 with the Queensberry Rules. Without Britain there wouldn't be any boxing! Boxing is in my blood.

I still find the word 'bum' offensive. In future, use the Queensberry approved 'not a very good boxer'.

*




< Message edited by wobbleguts -- 5/12/2021 2:35:25 AM >

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 4:42:10 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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My gut says Allies....but my (limited experience) shouts Axis.

Also...I was a ski bum for an interlude earlier in my life, and I didn't mind the moniker 'bum'.....and, I got all the girls.

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 7:22:43 PM   
LoneRunner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EarlyDoors


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcinos1985

quote:

btw there is a new DE that gives USSR 3 AT units!

Wait what?



yup, guess its this one

- Added DE 416 and DE 645 from War in Europe to provide the USSR and Germany with dedicated anti-tank units.

looks to be balanced


Are DE 416 and DE 645 new to WAW, added in the last patch?

I checked the strategy guide and USSR DEs stop at 415, Germany DEs stop at 636. So I'm missing a bunch of DEs. How would I see all the current DEs?

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/11/2021 11:10:10 PM   
Jackmck

 

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quote:

In my humble opinion if 2 very good/elite players meet, Axis is favoured, maybe even heavily.


Completely agree- and as players become more experienced, the Axis will win more and more. This should be addressed.

In my view, in games of evenly matched, high level players, Russia surrenders too often and China always.

China is easier to address- tie the US embargo to conditions rather than a fixed historical date (keep the option though for non PBEM play). The embargo should be triggered by Japanese advances in China as it was historically. Would also like to see a US mobilization boost for Japanese capture of Chungking and Sian- not enough to get them in the war but to give the US more resources.

Russia problem is harder to fix. Maybe smckechnie's post about more options for the western allies to pass resources to Russia is worth considering. Not only Murmansk and through Siberia but through the Middle East too- historically accurate and a feature in other games. This shouldn't make a difference in games of axis tactically superior play- Axis will just kill more units. But in elite play it will help Russia survive.


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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 12:06:03 AM   
LoneRunner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcinos1985

In my humble opinion if 2 very good/elite players meet, Axis is favoured, maybe even heavily.



Thank you for creating the thread Marcinos.

I agree, between two good players the Axis usually wins. Why? One word, Russia. By the end of 42 before a second front can be created, Russia has lost at least two of it's three strategic cities (Leningrad, Stalingrad, Moscow) and is struggling to survive.

I think the reason Russia struggles is that scorched earth doesn't work and the weak impact of the first winter on Axis forces.

Axis forces frequently capture Russian towns and cities at 4, 5, or 6 supply. As a result they are not slowed by lack of supply. I've captured Russian cities and the next turn operated HQ and artillery directly into an advancing front. During my last online game my opponent attempted scorched earth but found that German forces could advance faster than he could retreat.

No Russian towns or cities should be captured at more than two supply.

January of the first Russian winter, Axis forces are hit with losses due to being unprepared for the cold. The result is that many German units in Russia lose one strength point. My reaction as Axis player is typically a shrug. I lose some MPPs rebuilding units but I'm in no danger of actually losing a unit. And I rebuild the units during mud and snow, so I don't even lose a turn.

And where are the Siberians? Well...they are already lost or in the defending line. No massive winter counter offensive ever develops in WAW during the first winter.

Perhaps during the first winter if the Axis are within a certain number of hexes from Leningrad, Moscow, or Stalingrad, two upgraded Siberian armies appear. That way, the Axis player is penalized when going for the early win.

< Message edited by LoneRunner -- 5/12/2021 12:11:07 AM >

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 12:43:27 AM   
ThunderLizard2

 

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I think it's pretty balanced ATM. Would agree that defending Russian seems like an impossibility but there's probably some tricks I'm missing or something done wrong. I could see a slight tweak to make the Russian winter event a little more harsh and perhaps supply a little bit worse - bit not too much as it would tilt quickly in favor of Axis.

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 1:41:46 AM   
Bo Rearguard


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Maybe to buff up the Soviet Union when the Germans invades, they could get a fifth oil well near Ufa that slowly ratchets up to full strength like the mines in the Urals do. Currently the Volga-Urals Basin is the largest oil producing region in Russia although it was still being developed prior to the war.




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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 7:30:15 AM   
Taifun


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Thank you Marcinos for addressing again this issue.

As said above, I agree that between two good players the Axis wins. Russia needs more strategic reserves in the production line. When you read about the East front, it is mind blowing how the Soviets were able to raise time and again whole new Armies and Army Groups. At least 2-3 more Armies should be arriving November 1941 as reinforcements with some more artillery.
As pointed out before in WiE and in this forum, the scorched earth is not correctly addressed. I agree with LoneRunner that no Russian towns or cities should be captured at more than two supply. I also agree that during the first Russian winter, Axis forces should be hit with much higher losses (At least 1-3 points per unit) due to being unprepared for the cold. The Germans lost many hundreds of thousands of vehicles, more than half, of the original invading fleet during this winter. The USSR should get more MPPs via Persia (100-150 MMPs) to help survive the country through 1942.

As Jackmck points out, China should also be reconsidered. Japan is unstoppable and China could be destroyed in 1942 as I recently discovered in my game against Cpuncher.
An embargo should be triggered as the Japanese advances deep into China as it was historically. As stated above by other players, the US should get a mobilization boost for each NM city that the Japanese capture not enough to get them in the war but to give the US more resources.

What do we want, a balanced game or more realism?




< Message edited by Taifun -- 5/12/2021 7:34:18 AM >


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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 1:19:05 PM   
ThunderLizard2

 

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Be interested to see an AAR between two of the top players to better understand balance issues.

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 5:31:07 PM   
Elessar2


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Another idea would be to have a massive negative supply event against the Axis each December, lessening each subsequent winter (right now the "Russian Winter" event only takes off 1 health point from each Axis unit). As it is as soon as the snows & blizzards arrive the entire Axis army goes on a carefree skiing holiday for 3 months (since the current game settings give substantial penalties to the offense in winter, on both sides). Currently they can yank all of their elite units off of the front line to buff & tech them up, without any real concerns about any Russian counteroffensive (like the one that actually took place).

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 5:47:27 PM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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I favor both the embargo effect against Japan if certain trigger points are crossed in China as Taifun proposed...and a stronger winter effect in the Soviet Union..incrementally lessening in severity, as Elessar2 illustrates.

Also..the scorched earth effects in the Soviet Union seem too weak as it is right now. 2 strength towns upon Axis control seems way more realistic. As it stands right now, the chances of a Soviet counter attack during the first winter are almost nil, as Axis supply isn't at all diminished much as they consolidate their winter positions.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 5/12/2021 5:48:23 PM >

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 7:00:35 PM   
IIo4Tu


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there are the following ideas for balancing:

To strengthen China:
1. introduce DE, which for a certain amount of MPP will join Burma to the allies to activate the Burma road.
2. to untie aid from the USSR from the presence of Chungking in China.

To strengthen France, it is possible to introduce a large moral debuff (for example by 5 percent) for Germany if it attacks the Benelux before the onset of 1940.

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 7:00:36 PM   
Marcinos1985

 

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Lots and lots of valuable ideas here, great stuff!

quote:

China is easier to address- tie the US embargo to conditions rather than a fixed historical date (keep the option though for non PBEM play). The embargo should be triggered by Japanese advances in China as it was historically. Would also like to see a US mobilization boost for Japanese capture of Chungking and Sian- not enough to get them in the war but to give the US more resources.


That's a great idea. Though I think about implementation - does tying it to certain locations is good solution or could it be 'gamed' somehow.

quote:

I think the reason Russia struggles is that scorched earth doesn't work and the weak impact of the first winter on Axis forces.


Supply is often mentioned in this thread as a point of interest in USSR. One aspect woth to mention is that Germans fight really wel in bad supply - so good commanders and morale they have. What is more, unless supply is zero, their tanks can leapfrog 5 hexes. And how many hexes from border to Moscow are there, 15?

quote:

And where are the Siberians? Well...they are already lost or in the defending line. No massive winter counter offensive ever develops in WAW during the first winter.


That's true, maybe because Siberians in this game - comparing to WiE - are very modest force. In the beginning you get a tank, cavalry, SF and 3 corps, then HQ, 2 armies, HT and 2 planes join. In WiE you have 2 HQ's, 3 corps, 3 armies, 2 shock armies, 2 tanks, 2 planes. I'd take WiE troops.

quote:

I think it's pretty balanced ATM.

I have a feeling we are really not that far from there. Some tweaks here and there and it's getting even. But we are still not there yet.

quote:

As said above, I agree that between two good players the Axis wins. Russia needs more strategic reserves in the production line. When you read about the East front, it is mind blowing how the Soviets were able to raise time and again whole new Armies and Army Groups. At least 2-3 more Armies should be arriving November 1941 as reinforcements with some more artillery.
As pointed out before in WiE and in this forum, the scorched earth is not correctly addressed. I agree with LoneRunner that no Russian towns or cities should be captured at more than two supply. I also agree that during the first Russian winter, Axis forces should be hit with much higher losses (At least 1-3 points per unit) due to being unprepared for the cold. The Germans lost many hundreds of thousands of vehicles, more than half, of the original invading fleet during this winter. The USSR should get more MPPs via Persia (100-150 MMPs) to help survive the country through 1942.


Very fair. I always wondered why is USSR que almost empty past 1941. They were raising massive armies for all 1942, this is not represented now. Of course one can't go havoc on this, but for me it seems USSR can never achieve at least unit parity with GER, unless it's already winning big time. German army is quite big and refuses to die.

quote:

As Jackmck points out, China should also be reconsidered. Japan is unstoppable and China could be destroyed in 1942 as I recently discovered in my game against Cpuncher.


Exactly, in high level game result is always one, it matters only if you could preoccupy Japan long enough, but with optimized plan and with US help cut off Chinqing is gone around 06.1941 and rest is just mop up.

quote:

Be interested to see an AAR between two of the top players to better understand balance issues.

There was AAR between Taifun and smckechnie recently. In fact, it somehow inspired me to write this post. We may ofc debate whether defense of USSR was optimal, but pressure from GER was so big that it made me feel scared.

quote:

Currently they can yank all of their elite units off of the front line to buff & tech them up, without any real concerns about any Russian counteroffensive (like the one that actually took place).


Exactly this. IRL GER was severely depleted after 1941. In SC currently, it is 1942 which is scary for USSR, 1941 is usually ok somewhat, but then execution comes, in form of 8 lvl 3 tanks. All shiny and with crazy stats

Yes, 8 tanks is a potent force, especially with tech advantage over Russia. In the mean time, at the end of 1941 USSR will probably have 4 (2 of them heavy) plus 2 LT's. Where is the ocean of T34's?

I wonder what is Devs opinion on this matter (balance, not GER tanks ). Are decisions to tweak some things made from general population (where I believe Allies win 60-70% of the time), or does competitive play influence game direction somehow.

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 7:02:19 PM   
Marcinos1985

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IIo4Tu

there are the following ideas for balancing:

To strengthen China:
1. introduce DE, which for a certain amount of MPP will join Burma to the allies to activate the Burma road.
2. to untie aid from the USSR from the presence of Chungking in China.

To strengthen France, it is possible to introduce a large moral debuff (for example by 5 percent) for Germany if it attacks the Benelux before the onset of 1940.


This morale debuff was discussed sometime, don't remember conclusion.

@IIo4Tu What do you think of USSR?

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 7:20:48 PM   
Taifun


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Another idea. The purchase value of the Soviet Infantry Corps could be lowered to 75 MPPs, this at least could provide more troops for the Soviets (as in WiE). At least this could balance and show somehow the big human pool that the Soviets deployed in WWII.

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RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 8:09:39 PM   
IIo4Tu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcinos1985


quote:

ORIGINAL: IIo4Tu

there are the following ideas for balancing:

To strengthen China:
1. introduce DE, which for a certain amount of MPP will join Burma to the allies to activate the Burma road.
2. to untie aid from the USSR from the presence of Chungking in China.

To strengthen France, it is possible to introduce a large moral debuff (for example by 5 percent) for Germany if it attacks the Benelux before the onset of 1940.


This morale debuff was discussed sometime, don't remember conclusion.

@IIo4Tu What do you think of USSR?



about the USSR, need a moral debuff for Germany when attacking earlier than June 1941, try to add DE to the formation of additional units from Siberia in November, but most importantly, make it not profitable for Japan to attack the USSR before the end of the conquest of China (need some kind of colossal debuff), at the same time need to slow down the movement of Japan in China, because the capture of China in 1942 is nonsense.
Otherwise, I would not touch the USSR again until the statistics on these edits are collected.

And once again, if we want the game to roughly correspond to key dates and events, we need to introduce appropriate debuffs for the offending side, which will model the unwillingness of this side to take these actions, otherwise we need to do a more complex rebalancing of everything.
In any case, with an equal skill of the playing parties, the axis has many advantages in its favor.

< Message edited by IIo4Tu -- 5/12/2021 8:22:02 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/12/2021 8:12:53 PM   
LoneRunner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taifun

Another idea. The purchase value of the Soviet Infantry Corps could be lowered to 75 MPPs, this at least could provide more troops for the Soviets (as in WiE). At least this could balance and show somehow the big human pool that the Soviets deployed in WWII.


Good point Taifun. The Soviets weren't just deploying thousands of infantry, they were mass producing thousands of T-34s.

Probably the easiest method of implementing Soviet mass production is to fix the cost of Soviet research. At 175 MPPs per step, Soviet research for Production Technology and Industrial Technology are overpriced. And as a result the Soviets can't afford to improve their production. Reduce that cost to 75 and Soviet investment in research that will beef up their production from 42 on, which is historically accurate.

Also, the Soviets should be able to produce a cheap conscript unit that they can throw against the German lines. The unit would have an okay attack but zero staying power. That way it could be used for counterattacks but not for a defensive line.

If we are doing all this for Russia, we need to provide some assistance to German/Italy. One thing we could do is stop allowing long distance invasions. Using naval cruise I can invade Italy from mid-Atlantic. That's crazy. A transport should not be able to use naval cruise to invade.

< Message edited by LoneRunner -- 5/12/2021 8:16:42 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/13/2021 6:23:02 AM   
EarlyDoors


Posts: 434
Joined: 12/16/2018
From: uk
Status: offline
We’ve seen the stats, the Allies win more than the Axis

But I agree that an experienced Axis player can cut off choke points and come out victorious

Primarily the UK -> USSR Arctic convoy and the Burma Road

I like the idea of a US oil embargo based upon Japanese progress in China but I think the China solution lies in either a reduction of Japanese supply similar to the non cooperation supply rules the US receive in USSR ( towns maximum of 3) or cheaper Chinese army / corps. After all this is a country that drowned 2 million of its own citizens to slow the Japanese advance.

The USSR and gameplay would benefit from additional convoy routes to the south. I understand the current game engine limitation which could be solved by
Eastern USA / Western USA
Vladivostok style DE into ? Basra ? which deducts mpp per turn from US and allocates to USSR
periodic unit spawn in Persia / Astrakhan

< Message edited by EarlyDoors -- 5/13/2021 6:27:22 AM >


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Post #: 27
RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/13/2021 7:36:22 AM   
Yvan1326

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 11/30/2020
Status: offline
hello,
an example for DE to US supply USSR.
You can imagine the same for Uk to USSR.
axis can block DE!

{
#NAME= DE 386 - US: Send Supplies to the USSR via Persia (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP=
#MESSAGE= <<TAG_385>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 0
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
; Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 115
#TRIGGER= 100
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 0
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 386
#MPP_UPDOWN= 0
#MPP_TURNS= 0
#MPP_TEXT=
#NOTES= <<TAG_386>>
#NOTES_POSITION=
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; Teheran is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,59 [2]
; Stalingrad is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 135,42 [2]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; US politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [100] [0]
; USSR politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
; Germany politically aligned with Axis and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; Persia politically aligned with Allied and not mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 82 [2] [100] [0]
; Dummy condition position (always satisfied)
#CONDITION_POSITION= 0,0 [0,0] [0,0] [0] [0]
}

{
#NAME= DE 387 - US: Send Supplies to the USSR via Persia (Countenance operation) (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP=
#MESSAGE= <<TAG_385>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 0
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
; Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 403[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 115
#TRIGGER= 100
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 0
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 387
#MPP_UPDOWN= 0
#MPP_TURNS= 0
#MPP_TEXT=
#NOTES= <<TAG_386>>
#NOTES_POSITION=
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; Téhéran is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,59 [2]
; Stalingrad is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 135,42 [2]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; US politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [100] [0]
; USSR politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
; Germany politically aligned with Axis and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; Dummy condition position (always satisfied)
#CONDITION_POSITION= 0,0 [0,0] [0,0] [0] [0]
}

{
#NAME= DE 388 - US: Dummy Event for the US's Convoy to the USSR via Persia (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP=
#MESSAGE=
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
; Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 386[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 116
#TRIGGER= 100
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 0
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 388
#MPP_UPDOWN= 40
#MPP_TURNS= 1
#MPP_TEXT= <<TAG_384>>
#NOTES=
#NOTES_POSITION=
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; Teheran is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,59 [2]
; Stalingrad is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 135,42 [2]
; Railway Bushehr to teheran are in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,67 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,67 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,66 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,65 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,65 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,64 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,64 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,63 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,62 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,61 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,60 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,59 [2]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; US politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [100] [0]
; USSR politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
; Germany politically aligned with Axis and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; No Axis Naval Units outside Bushehr Port
#CONDITION_POSITION= 140,68 [1,1] [0,0] [1] [0]
}

{
#NAME= DE 389 - US: Dummy Event for the US's Convoy to the USSR via Persia (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP=
#MESSAGE=
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
; Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 386[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 115
#TRIGGER= 100
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 0
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 389
#MPP_UPDOWN= -40
#MPP_TURNS= 1
#MPP_TEXT= <<TAG_384>>
#NOTES=
#NOTES_POSITION=
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; Teheran is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,59 [2]
; Stalingrad is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 135,42 [2]
; Railway Bushehr to teheran are in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,67 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,67 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,66 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,65 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,65 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,64 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,64 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,63 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,62 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,61 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,60 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,59 [2]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; US politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [100] [0]
; USSR politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
; Germany politically aligned with Axis and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; No Axis Naval Units outside Bushehr Port
#CONDITION_POSITION= 140,68 [1,1] [0,0] [1] [0]
}

;after Countenance Operation
{
#NAME= DE 390 - US: Dummy Event for the US's Convoy to the USSR via Persia (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP=
#MESSAGE=
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
; Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 387[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 116
#TRIGGER= 100
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 0
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 390
#MPP_UPDOWN= 40
#MPP_TURNS= 1
#MPP_TEXT= <<TAG_384>>
#NOTES=
#NOTES_POSITION=
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; Teheran is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,59 [2]
; Stalingrad is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 135,42 [2]
; Railway Bushehr to teheran are in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,67 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,67 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,66 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,65 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,65 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,64 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,64 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,63 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,62 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,61 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,60 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,59 [2]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; US politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [100] [0]
; USSR politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
; Germany politically aligned with Axis and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; No Axis Naval Units outside Bushehr Port
#CONDITION_POSITION= 140,68 [1,1] [0,0] [1] [0]
}

;after Countenance Operation
{
#NAME= DE 391 - US: Dummy Event for the US's Convoy to the USSR via Persia (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP=
#MESSAGE=
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
; Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 387[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 115
#TRIGGER= 100
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 0
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 391
#MPP_UPDOWN= -40
#MPP_TURNS= 1
#MPP_TEXT= <<TAG_384>>
#NOTES=
#NOTES_POSITION=
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; Teheran is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,59 [2]
; Stalingrad is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 135,42 [2]
; Railway Bushehr to teheran are in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,67 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,67 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,66 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 142,65 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,65 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 141,64 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,64 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,63 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 140,62 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,61 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,60 [2]
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 139,59 [2]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; US politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [100] [0]
; USSR politically aligned with Allies and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
; Germany politically aligned with Axis and fully mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
; No Axis Naval Units outside Bushehr Port
#CONDITION_POSITION= 140,68 [1,1] [0,0] [1] [0]
}

(in reply to EarlyDoors)
Post #: 28
RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/13/2021 8:32:40 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4506
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

Another idea would be to have a massive negative supply event against the Axis each December, lessening each subsequent winter (right now the "Russian Winter" event only takes off 1 health point from each Axis unit). As it is as soon as the snows & blizzards arrive the entire Axis army goes on a carefree skiing holiday for 3 months (since the current game settings give substantial penalties to the offense in winter, on both sides). Currently they can yank all of their elite units off of the front line to buff & tech them up, without any real concerns about any Russian counteroffensive (like the one that actually took place).


I'm not necessarily against increasing the impact of the winter event, but just to clarify that the scripts are currently set to randomly inflict between 0 and 2 strength point losses per unit, as well as a unit morale penalty of 40-75%.



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Post #: 29
RE: Yet another balance thread (1.11) - 5/13/2021 8:49:47 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4506
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoneRunner


quote:

ORIGINAL: EarlyDoors


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcinos1985

quote:

btw there is a new DE that gives USSR 3 AT units!

Wait what?



yup, guess its this one

- Added DE 416 and DE 645 from War in Europe to provide the USSR and Germany with dedicated anti-tank units.

looks to be balanced


Are DE 416 and DE 645 new to WAW, added in the last patch?

I checked the strategy guide and USSR DEs stop at 415, Germany DEs stop at 636. So I'm missing a bunch of DEs. How would I see all the current DEs?


Thanks for mentioning this, as by doing so we've discovered a technical issue in that if you open the Strategy Guide from the launcher, it opens an obsolete version (this should be fixed in the next patch).

However, launching it from within the game will open the up to date version, which does include the new Anti-Tank Decisions.

< Message edited by BillRunacre -- 5/13/2021 9:00:53 AM >


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