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Best settings to manage SU with as little effort as possible.

 
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Best settings to manage SU with as little effort as po... - 5/10/2021 4:10:55 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

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Subject line explains. More precisely, what are the best settings to manage support units in a hands off manner to the greatest extent possible and still have them work with at least minimal effectiveness playing as the Germans against the AI in the full game scenario? I've read different things and remember advice from WITE 1, but what is the best current advice. I want to play without micromanaging support units and indeed without managing them at all except in special situations of my choice. Thanks for tips.

< Message edited by jwarrenw13 -- 5/10/2021 4:11:32 PM >
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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/10/2021 4:13:38 PM   
actrade

 

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Here's what I do. Set all High Commands to zero. Set Army Groups/Armys to 1, set German non-PzG corps to 3, set PzG to 4, set non-Germans to 2. If you don't have AG/Army set to a least 1, nothing filters from OKW to the corps.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/10/2021 5:41:19 PM   
James80

 

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Do you really have to set it to 1?

I have asked this in the short questions short answers thread but it wasn't heard:

quote:

I'm no expert but I have read and tested that in order for SU's to flow down from OKH (once they are there) you need to set the Army Group AND Army HQ's support level to 1 (not zero). If the support level is set to zero then nothing can flow through them. I can't find this info in the manual but I read it either here or on Discord and tested it and I find it is so.


Can someone confirm it? And if this is the case, is this wad? I thought this behaviour should just be the case if an hq is locked. I often don't want SU in higher hq but I want to have the automatic function. I use support level 0 a lot.

edit: I have found the following in the (really great) manual:
quote:

21.5.6
If you want to minimize the number of support units in a
HQ unit, but still allow automatic transfer through that HQ
unit? Use a setting of ‘0’ so that the only support units the
computer will send to the HQ will be the permanent levels
of construction and engineers

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/10/2021 7:04:00 PM   
actrade

 

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If you set the AG/Army at zero, nothing gets to the corps even if you set them at 3,4 or 5. Joel confirmed in another post somewhere here in the forums.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/10/2021 10:39:02 PM   
neuromancer


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It makes sense if you think like a computer. If everything has to flow down through the levels of HQ, then having the AGs and Armies at the same level as the OKH (0) makes them all the same priority. Nothing flows from OKH to the AGs because they are the same, so no reason to move. Because of the organization you have to move them from level to level, they won't skip the AGs and Armies and go straight to the corps (they may skip it during the same turn as far as we see, but logically - how the computer sees it - they don't).

From the manual quote it doesn't sound like that was the way they meant to do it, at least not when the passage was written, but it does sound like that is the way it ended up working.

Frankly I'm surprised that things flow from the AGs to the Armies if they are both set at the same level of 1, you would think they wouldn't flow downwards from the AG to the Army. It does seem they will flow sideways between corps without any issue. The program may be willing to skip the Armies and go straight from the AG to a corps, but not the skip the AG and go straight from the High Commands.

Problem I've had with leaving it automatic is that the support units end up clumped up strangely. You get random corps with a pile of artillery, and other units with only 1 battalion. Which would be fine if you could be sure that the 'super corps' would be doing most of the fighting, but that is rarely how it is going to work out.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/11/2021 4:54:57 AM   
James80

 

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I don't think that the numbers represent priority. They stand for the quantitiy of unit types.

quote:

21.5.6
For example, if the player sets “Support Level”
to 3 the computer would attempt to provide 3 support
units of each type, to include Armoured, Anti-Tank, Artillery,
Anti-aircraft, Rocket, etc

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/11/2021 7:10:35 AM   
Flor1976

 

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The first thing to do is go to the CR, click on the HQs tab and go to the Support Level, click on it and set the level to 0. After that, filter the HQs by clicking on none and then selecting HICom. Set the Support level to 9. This will make sure that SUs flow from the Corps HQs upward till they reach the High Commands. The exceptions to the rule are Construction Battalions and Pioneer Battalions.
After few turns all SU will be at OK , then you can distribute everything like you want to the corps , remember corps commander use only 6 SU max in battle
Also every time you put SU to corps they loose half of combat preparations , so when you need them multiple times for battle put the corps on locked

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/14/2021 8:59:02 PM   
Phoenix100

 

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I was very interested in this thread, but I'm a bit puzzled following the answers. Can someone say definitively what the position is regards setting Army HQs at '0'? Is it as stated in the manual, or as stated above by Actrade? Thanks.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/14/2021 9:34:45 PM   
Bamilus


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I think actrade is right, I know what thread he's talking about. The manual doesn't document it, but it seems to be an issue if you're trying to push SU from OKH to corps level that if any of the intervening HQ's are set to 0 that nothing will get pushed down. They get pushed down a level but then get pushed right back up to OKH. At least that's what I remember from the convo but I personally don't use SU levels and keep everything locked so my experience with this is minimal.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/14/2021 9:56:13 PM   
actrade

 

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If you set Army and/or Army groups as zero, the SUs will not pass down from OKH to corps. You must set them at 1.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/15/2021 7:02:21 AM   
James80

 

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In the manual:

21.5.6
If you want to minimize the number of support units in a
HQ unit, but still allow automatic transfer through that HQ
unit? Use a setting of ‘0’ so that the only support units the
computer will send to the HQ will be the permanent levels
of construction and engineers

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/15/2021 10:49:59 AM   
76mm


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By now I'm thoroughly confused...so is it 0 or 1??

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/15/2021 12:03:46 PM   
Bamilus


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Its 1. But you can try 0 but people were running into issues with it. 0 let's it flow upward but will stop downward movement (if moving across multiple HQs)

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 5/15/2021 12:04:23 PM >


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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/15/2021 12:12:30 PM   
Phoenix100

 

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If it really is numbers of support units represented by the number you choose, and not a priority, then it seems odd that the manual isn't correct. Be nice to have some official response, from a dev.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 5/15/2021 12:20:39 PM   
Bamilus


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There is an official response by Joel. I'm speaking solely when youre trying to send SU from OKH to corps that having two HQ in-between at 0 stops it. Test it yourself

The manual is correct in every other way. The SU level is how many SU you'll get of each type (construction and engineer excepted). Its just if you try and auto move SU from a high command to a corps that you cant have army and army group at 0 or they wont flow down.

Here's the thread with dev https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5005957

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 5/15/2021 12:26:52 PM >


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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/21/2021 6:12:32 PM   
Phoenix100

 

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Thanks, Bamilus.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/22/2021 7:12:16 AM   
MarkShot

 

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I am new and just learning; not really playing.

Now, I just watched the SDJ tutorial on SUs.

He said (for the Germans). Set all HQs 0. Thus, the SUs will all percolate to OKH. Now, pull down 9 to the Corp before attacking (and don't move it that turn, and have it in range of its divisions). Its divisions will be able to pull SUs as needed in their attacks for the turn. I guess when the turn is over they will percolate back up to the OKH pool. He said nothing about MP penalties doing this.

This is what he recommended running v1.0 of the game. Of course, it did sound gamey that all the Reich's artillery sits in a big rail yard in Berlin and gets transferred out to lower commands at the speed of light.

I imagine some rules must have changed to make players commit to investing SUs into their HQ commands.

Given that I am a total noob at GG and WITE2 ...

Could someone lay out for me in v1.00.12 the most noob friendly way of handling SUs? I am not looking for optimal results, but rather optimal simplicity to avoid being overwhelmed in my play. I plan to master details later; much later.

Thank you kindly for your time and patience!

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/22/2021 7:31:46 AM   
Phoenix100

 

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What I gleaned from this thread and another was that if you want the game to manage SUs, more or less, you unlock them in gen prefs, set OKH to '0', set Army/Army Group level commands to '1' (otherwise nothing gets distributed, as it were, through them) and then set your Corps levels how you would like them to be, in terms of focus, given that there are limited SUs available. So mostly people seemed to be setting their PG units at 4 and the Infantry at 3. That's what I'm messing with now and it seems to work quite well.



< Message edited by Phoenix100 -- 6/22/2021 10:05:53 AM >

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/22/2021 7:44:47 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I am new and just learning; not really playing.

Now, I just watched the SDJ tutorial on SUs.

He said (for the Germans). Set all HQs 0. Thus, the SUs will all percolate to OKH. Now, pull down 9 to the Corp before attacking (and don't move it that turn, and have it in range of its divisions). Its divisions will be able to pull SUs as needed in their attacks for the turn. I guess when the turn is over they will percolate back up to the OKH pool. He said nothing about MP penalties doing this.

This is what he recommended running v1.0 of the game. Of course, it did sound gamey that all the Reich's artillery sits in a big rail yard in Berlin and gets transferred out to lower commands at the speed of light.

I imagine some rules must have changed to make players commit to investing SUs into their HQ commands.

Given that I am a total noob at GG and WITE2 ...

Could someone lay out for me in v1.00.12 the most noob friendly way of handling SUs? I am not looking for optimal results, but rather optimal simplicity to avoid being overwhelmed in my play. I plan to master details later; much later.

Thank you kindly for your time and patience!


the easiest way (& it actually works as well) is to start from your corps, basically use the SU priority indicators to mark the formations you wish to prioritise, over a few turns the SUs will settle into that pattern. Set the higher commands to 0 so they won't hold any formations but allow them to redistribute.

For the corps, don't have many at '3' - that is not 3 SUs that is 3 of each major type, 1 for a secondary sector, 2 for a key formation probably is all you need.

Point is, for about t1-t5, the SUs are not that important for the axis player, you don't have the set piece or marginal battles where they come into play as an important asset. Use this approach and they will be in place when you need them.

To me, the 2 key armies for SU allocation are 11A (Odessa and later Sevastopol) and 18A (not just taking Leningrad but reaching the damn place)

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/22/2021 7:54:04 AM   
Phoenix100

 

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ONe query out of that, Loki - you say set higher commands to '0', but I thought it had been established that that was ok for OKH, but Army/Army Group commands needed to be set at '1' or SUs wouldn't 'flow through' them?

The info on recommended Corps levels (1 and 2) is very useful!

< Message edited by Phoenix100 -- 6/22/2021 7:55:03 AM >

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/22/2021 8:10:22 AM   
loki100


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there is a difference between '0' (SUs don't stick) and 'locked' SUs don't leave, from 21.5.6:

quote:

If you want to minimize the number of support units in a HQ unit, but still allow automatic transfer through that HQ
unit? Use a setting of ‘0’ so that the only support units the computer will send to the HQ will be the permanent levels of construction and engineers


so you can use 'locked' globally, lock everything and do your allocations manually or in part of the OOB to block out some of the path (up or down), but 0 simply means 'don't stop here'

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/22/2021 8:24:22 AM   
juv95hrn

 

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I dont think this was mentioned above. If you want to empty a corps or army, set it to OKH for a turn or two, set it to zero, and it will empty itself with minimal effort.

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/22/2021 8:25:57 AM   
Phoenix100

 

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Thanks Loki. Sorry to be obtuse, but if I use 'unlocked' globally, (which I want to do - I don't want to allocate SUs manually) are you saying that if I set OKH and Army/ArmyGroups to '0', and, say '1' and '2' for my various Corps, then the SUs will still end up in my Corps at the right time? I thought the advice was to set Army and Army groups to '1' in these circumstances?

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RE: Best settings to manage SU with as little effort a... - 6/22/2021 9:17:32 AM   
MarkShot

 

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I should in fairness to the excellent presentation by Strategy Gaming Dojo ...

NOTE: That in the next episode in re-addressed SUs and the loss of CPP points due to being pull down from OKH in the optimal method he presented. And noted, that for this title, it would take some analysis if they should be pulled down to the Corps level and locked with the HQ option versus what he first proposed.

(I just finished the episode.)

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