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GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 3:09:01 PM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings to All,
GM is introducing an all electric US army infantry squad vehicle (70-150 mile range on single charge).
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/gm-defense-electric-infantry-squad-vehicle-u-s-army

https://www.gmdefensellc.com/site/us/en/gm-defense/home/integrated-vehicles.html

Being based on the Chevy Volt electric engine, there must be several hours of charging required 6-12 hours?
Where do you find charging stations on the battlefield?

< Message edited by rommel222 -- 5/10/2021 3:11:40 PM >
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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 3:41:42 PM   
zakblood


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hope they've tested it in a EMP blast, as most diesel based vehicles as long as not too close still work, where as petrol one and i'd guess most electric won't as there electronics are more prone and tbh in most none diesel vehicles more of them.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 3:41:48 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Looks like this is a modified version for the commercial market rather than something the military is actually getting.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 4:15:54 PM   
OldSarge


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It looks like the US Army is already trying to tackle the problem of supporting electric vehicles in the field: US Army picks 6 companies to tackle how to power electric combat vehicles in the field

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with, no doubt plenty of commercial spin off opportunities.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 7:23:44 PM   
bayonetbrant

 

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the fact that there are concept vehicles out there doesn't mean they're going operational any time soon.

When I was in TEXCOM, we were working on BCIS in 1995 and EPLRS in 1996 and neither of those were fielded before 2002, and that was considered pretty rapid.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 8:03:57 PM   
RangerJoe


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While that would be nice for a quiet Scout vehicle, this may be a better option:

quote:

MTSU research team develops DIY plug-in hybrid conversion kit for nearly any car
An affordable DIY plug-in hybrid conversion kit, developed by a team at Middle Tennessee State Univ, that is installable on nearly any car, could increase the number of electrified vehicles on the road, and could allows anyone to electrify the car of their choosing.


https://www.torquenews.com/1075/mtsu-research-team-develops-diy-plug-hybrid-conversion-kit-nearly-any-car

quote:

For a test platform, Perry and his team used a 1994 Honda Accord station wagon fitted with electric motors in each rear wheelwell and a lithium-ion battery in the cargo area. The motors supplement the vehicle's internal-combustion engine, resulting in a mileage increase of 50-100 percent when driving below 40 mph.

Perry's objective was to create a hybrid kit that could be added to any car without changing brakes, suspension, or other mechanical systems. Similar add-on hybrid kits are expensive and require major modifications to the vehicle.

When it goes into full production, Perry estimates his kit will cost about $3,000.


https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/professor-develops-kit-to-turn-any-car-into-a-plug-in-hybrid.html

And a video with commentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxn6XdLIb7U

This would be a good idea for short term commutes, helping to keep the air cleaner and above 40 mph the normal ICE will turn on and move the vehicle as well as charge the batteries. No need to buy a new vehicle at all. Do you think that LA air could use a little help?

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 8:08:37 PM   
Karri

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222
Where do you find charging stations on the battlefield?


Where do you find petrol stations on the battlefield?

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 9:27:26 PM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings Karri,
Jerrycans. I suppose electrical pre-charged battery version "jerrycans" might work.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/10/2021 9:28:29 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222
Where do you find charging stations on the battlefield?


Where do you find petrol stations on the battlefield?


POL trucks.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 2:50:31 AM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222
Where do you find charging stations on the battlefield?


Where do you find petrol stations on the battlefield?


Tanker trucks.





Attachment (1)

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 2:52:58 AM   
Lobster


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And back in WW2.





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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 2:38:05 PM   
gekkoguy35

 

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So really it seems that it won't be any different than it is currently, just swap fuel tankers for battery "tankers". Battery tenders? I'm sure they'll come up with a slick name for them.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 3:05:14 PM   
Karri

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Tanker trucks.




Yeah, I know. It was more of a rhetorical question. Obviously, battery technology still needs to come a long way, but it's no more difficult supplying electricity than it is fuel.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 3:08:11 PM   
bayonetbrant

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222
Where do you find charging stations on the battlefield?



quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Where do you find petrol stations on the battlefield?



FWIW, I read Karri's comment not as "hey, are there any petrol stations out there" but more as "well, duh - we needed to move fuel around, so there's no reason we can't move batteries around, too"

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 6:06:33 PM   
ncc1701e


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Is hydrogen not better?

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 8:54:30 PM   
bayonetbrant

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Is hydrogen not better?



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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 9:05:46 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222
Where do you find charging stations on the battlefield?


Where do you find petrol stations on the battlefield?


Tanker trucks.






Those are called POL trucks.

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Post #: 17
RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 9:20:32 PM   
RangerJoe


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The problem with batteries is that they still have to be charged from somewhere. Wishing won't do it.

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Post #: 18
RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 9:51:40 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Is hydrogen not better?





It depends upon how the hydrogen is carried and stored. A lot of hydrogen can be carried at just a little above atmospheric pressure then slowly released so it does not explode like that nor are the tanks dangerous if they were to leak into the open air. Closed spaces would still be a problem.

Note that the government need not worry about the cost too much.

Light metal hydride-based hydrogen storage system: Economic assessment in Argentina

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360319920317894

Hydrogen Storage - Basics
Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technologies Office

quote:

Hydrogen storage in solids may make it possible to store larger quantities of hydrogen in smaller volumes at low pressure and at temperatures close to room temperature. It is also possible to achieve volumetric storage densities greater than liquid hydrogen because the hydrogen molecule is dissociated into atomic hydrogen within the metal hydride lattice structure.


https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage-basics-0

Hydrogen storage in metal hydrides
It will provide a safe and simple storage solution, solving problems with hydrogen

quote:

However, one of the main problems in the hydrogen economy is the difficulty in storing hydrogen in a safe and inexpensive way. Conventional techniques based on hydrogen storage in high-pressure tanks have substantially improved and now it is being stored at pressures of 800 bars. But there are still unsolved problems. In order to store a sufficient quantity of fuel, very large volumes are required. In addition to this it is necessary to investigate more cost-effective methods of compressing hydrogen at such high pressures. One solution to the large volume of containers can be addressed by using liquid hydrogen instead of gas, however the high energy and economic costs to keep hydrogen in liquid state (T=21K) make this solution unfeasible.

In this context, new methods for hydrogen storage have been sought. One alternative is the storage of hydrogen molecules in solid compounds using chemical reactions (Eq.1). This is an attractive alternative because of its versatility and because solid compounds can store more hydrogen per unit of volume than liquid hydrogen itself (Table.1), as well increasing the safety. The suitability of a solid compound to absorb and deabsorb hydrogen depends on several parameters such as required pressure and temperature of the charge/discharge, speed of the process and cyclability. These properties are closely linked to the thermodynamic and kinetic properties to form and decompose hydrides [2]. To know them, it is necessary to characterise the Gibbs energy of the reaction and the activation energies of the different stages that takes place in the absorption/deabsorption of the hydrogen in the material respectively.
However, one of the main problems in the hydrogen economy is the difficulty in storing hydrogen in a safe and inexpensive way. Conventional techniques based on hydrogen storage in high-pressure tanks have substantially improved and now it is being stored at pressures of 800 bars. But there are still unsolved problems. In order to store a sufficient quantity of fuel, very large volumes are required. In addition to this it is necessary to investigate more cost-effective methods of compressing hydrogen at such high pressures. One solution to the large volume of containers can be addressed by using liquid hydrogen instead of gas, however the high energy and economic costs to keep hydrogen in liquid state (T=21K) make this solution unfeasible.

In this context, new methods for hydrogen storage have been sought. One alternative is the storage of hydrogen molecules in solid compounds using chemical reactions (Eq.1). This is an attractive alternative because of its versatility and because solid compounds can store more hydrogen per unit of volume than liquid hydrogen itself (Table.1), as well increasing the safety. The suitability of a solid compound to absorb and deabsorb hydrogen depends on several parameters such as required pressure and temperature of the charge/discharge, speed of the process and cyclability. These properties are closely linked to the thermodynamic and kinetic properties to form and decompose hydrides [2]. To know them, it is necessary to characterise the Gibbs energy of the reaction and the activation energies of the different stages that takes place in the absorption/deabsorption of the hydrogen in the material respectively.
.
.
.
Summing up, the problem to store a large quantity of hydrogen in a safe and economic way has not been solved yet and it is a bottleneck to implement the hydrogen economy as a fuel alternative. In this framework, the storage of hydrogen in a solid state presents good opportunities as there is a wide range of hydrides families that could be used ad hoc in different applications (stationary, mobile, single-use, high temperature…). They also have added advantages of increasing the safety, efficiency and capacity in comparison with conventional methods. There are now compounds that can store up to 150kg H2/m3 at a 20% in weight. The technology in most of these hydrides is mature and commercial storage units have been developed for years. However, in other families (ionic and complex hydrides) more research and technical development is necessary to find out feasible solutions to the storage problem and, consequently, increase the implementation of the hydrogen economy.


https://www.norvento.com/en/blog/hydrogen-storage/

If the hydrogen is not used in a fuel cell, then it may be best used an a ICE-electric combination. I remember reading that a rotary ICE is 30% efficient in turning the chemical energy into rotary motion compared to a reciprocating ICE which is 20% efficient but the reciprocating ICE may be able to increase power faster. In other words, it would be more responsive when depressing the accelerator yet in the ICE-electric combination, the batteries could provide the needed energy boost while the rotary ICE runs at a more constant speed which is more energy efficient thus reduces the wear on the engine.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/11/2021 9:54:37 PM   
RangerJoe


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Please note that storing the hydrogen in the metal matrix does not require heavy cylinders like the oxygen and acetylene tanks current used for cutting metal. They could even be made to be swapped out as well if needed. The waste would primarily be water vapor although an ICE engine could produce other waste as well.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 2:50:29 AM   
Eambar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Is hydrogen not better?


They are already looking at it. The SURUS is the next step in a hydrogen fuel cell powered autonomous vehicle.

Currently only looking at logistic applications, but not a difficult mental leap to get to a modular, mission kitted offensive capability based on the SURUS.

https://www.gmhydrotec.com/product/public/us/en/hydrotec/Home.html

Cheers

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 9:09:54 AM   
Pvt_Grunt

 

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A quick G@@gle search shows things are already happening with H2. It's unlikely or impossible non-ICE vehicles will take over 100%, but just like domestic electric vehicles they could easily replace say 50%.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/4-ways-fuel-cells-power-us-military


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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 3:56:12 PM   
RangerJoe


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One problem with electric vehicles is that it is difficult to make smoke screens by spraying diesel onto hot exhaust pipes.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 7:06:00 PM   
Lobster


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How would you like to run fuel out near the battlefield in this Soviet WW2 tanker truck? Yikes.






Attachment (1)

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 8:03:11 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

How would you like to run fuel out near the battlefield in this Soviet WW2 tanker truck? Yikes.







That is better than no fuel at all. Why do you think that Soviet tanks had detachable fuel drums on them?

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 9:13:42 PM   
Hardradi


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Nice and quiet but if they are anything like a mobile phone good luck in a cold snap in an electric vehicle.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 9:57:41 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

Nice and quiet but if they are anything like a mobile phone good luck in a cold snap in an electric vehicle.

You lose some range, but otherwise they run fine here in -30C and below. You also get the upside that EV AWD systems are vastly better than ICE versions (with all those diffs and other mechanical parts).

Cheers

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 9:57:56 PM   
Lobster


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Every tank except for the T-26, T-50, T-60, T-70, BT-2, BT-5, BT-7, BT-7M, Matilda II, Valentine, Grants, Lees, Shermans, Stuarts, SU-76 etc, etc, etc.
So yeah, some had fuel tanks on them. They still needed tanker trucks.

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RE: GM All Electric US Army Infantry Vehicle - 5/13/2021 9:59:19 PM   
RangerJoe


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Batteries lose a lot of power in the cold. Diesel and gasoline, not at all. Plus waste heat from the ICE engine in winter is nice. Could you imagine not using the heater in an electric vehicle so you won't be stuck somewhere?

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