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WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development Ideas

 
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WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development Ideas - 5/10/2021 5:41:55 AM   
guctony


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Hii

I like to open a discussion and possible team formation for a WITE@ and WITW combination game.
Basically I am envisioning a game where WITE2 GC will reach 1943 may and than what ever the TB force compositions availble will transferred to WITW. And a mirror campaign will start. and even it is not very efficient by using open TB options any transfers in the WITE2 units to West front and Italian front will be promptly mirrored in both games.

Would anyone interested with this concept for playin or developing more. Obviously I have the basic idea but it has to be developed more in to playable set of rules and system.

My ideas are like this.

Any one interested

1) either there will be a super overall commander other than the player itself to decide the unit transfers for Germans. So the front commander cant act selfish
2) There need to be special House rules to avoid abusing the to many unit transfer.
3) or there will be overall German commander and one commander for west front and Soviets.


What I am not good at currently is scenario modding. Will it be easy to mode WITW the way I imagined

< Message edited by guctony -- 5/10/2021 6:03:25 AM >


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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 5/10/2021 7:50:22 AM   
loki100


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I've been thinking about this quite a lot, and there are a few unavoidable problems.

I think you could play WiTE2 with enhanced TB but keep to the scheduled changes till July 43. In theory the German player could then mirror any transfers from July 43 in both games (any differences in the OOB are at the sub-divisional scale). If you play both with historical transfers you avoid this but that perhaps removes the incentive for the Axis side - not least to test out Hitler's brief idea of concentrating on the Western Allies (which meant he weakened the Soviet front at a critical stage but didn't really do the extent that might have made a difference).

The core problems are that:

a) Soviet gains in WiTW come off the EF box system, so if the axis player decided to send more west than historical because they were doing better in the East this can't be reflected (or in other words you might in WiTE2 still be defending central Poland and in WiTW the Soviets take Berlin);

b) Allied gains in WiTE2 come off the TB system. Now most of this is chrome but the fall of Frankfurt is critical. It will usually leave the Axis side with one functioning NSS and at that point their economy collapses. So again, you could be holding securely along the Rhine in WiTW while WiTE2 awards Frankfurt to the Allies.

It is, to put it mildly, an intriguing idea.

The alternative route of adding the Allies to WiTE2 is vastly more complex and hits a couple of conceptual aspects of the game system. In part you'd have to treat the Allies as sharing pools with the Soviets and no-one knows how multiple, dispersed clusters of NSS would work.

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 5/10/2021 8:21:08 AM   
guctony


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

I've been thinking about this quite a lot, and there are a few unavoidable problems.

I think you could play WiTE2 with enhanced TB but keep to the scheduled changes till July 43. In theory the German player could then mirror any transfers from July 43 in both games (any differences in the OOB are at the sub-divisional scale). If you play both with historical transfers you avoid this but that perhaps removes the incentive for the Axis side - not least to test out Hitler's brief idea of concentrating on the Western Allies (which meant he weakened the Soviet front at a critical stage but didn't really do the extent that might have made a difference).

The core problems are that:

a) Soviet gains in WiTW come off the EF box system, so if the axis player decided to send more west than historical because they were doing better in the East this can't be reflected (or in other words you might in WiTE2 still be defending central Poland and in WiTW the Soviets take Berlin);

b) Allied gains in WiTE2 come off the TB system. Now most of this is chrome but the fall of Frankfurt is critical. It will usually leave the Axis side with one functioning NSS and at that point their economy collapses. So again, you could be holding securely along the Rhine in WiTW while WiTE2 awards Frankfurt to the Allies.

It is, to put it mildly, an intriguing idea.

The alternative route of adding the Allies to WiTE2 is vastly more complex and hits a couple of conceptual aspects of the game system. In part you'd have to treat the Allies as sharing pools with the Soviets and no-one knows how multiple, dispersed clusters of NSS would work.



Lets Brainstorm for a bit

a) I don't know if TB force requirements can be tweaked by Scenario Editor but worse case scenario I think we can add additional dummy units to fill soviet TB in WITW after 1943 July to rebalance force changes in mirror game. It will not be ideal solution but as WITE2 game progress these dummy units can be removed temporarily to reflect soviet advance in WITE2 .
b)the opposite is also possible I guess to fill WE TB in WITE2 with dummy units and to remove them to simulate allied advance as closely as possible.

If we cancel all historical units transfer I think it might be possible. It is for sure a what if scenario/system but I am very curious in testing one of my alternative options for west front. That is to cancel/scale down Atlantic wall and instead focus on West wall and an interim wall from Dutch to swiss border. And a delaying action till September/November.

This might free more panzer and infantry units to East front for some more favorable defense line in December 1944 which might allow a Gross Ardennes counter strike in 1944 winter to push for a more reasonable ceasefire negotiations.

Obviously above scenario requires Human opponents as AI can never handle it.

By all means I don't find feasible a combined map game of both fronts. But I think in future Developers might come up with and official version of above concept.

I mean one game 2 separate maps and integrated unit transfer between 2 games. Played completely separately with front lines and other information updated automatically. this might resolve many remedies of game engine.



_____________________________

"Unless a nation's life faces peril, war is murder."
"Sovereignty is not given, it is taken."
"After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
Mustafa Kemal

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 3
RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 5/12/2021 1:44:12 AM   
kirkmcgill

 

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Given that the WITW OOBs are present and the map itself covers the entire European war, I'm hoping that if WITE2 does really well we might be looking at an official true two-front game at some point combining both games such that we can actually fight both fronts at once (perhaps throwing in a third player to play the western allies so one could have a two player combined-allies or a three player separate SU and WA). Or at least that's what I tell myself each night when I go to sleep with my WITE2 manual under my pillow.

(in reply to guctony)
Post #: 4
RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 5/12/2021 9:48:07 PM   
IslandInland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkmcgill

Given that the WITW OOBs are present and the map itself covers the entire European war, I'm hoping that if WITE2 does really well we might be looking at an official true two-front game at some point combining both games such that we can actually fight both fronts at once (perhaps throwing in a third player to play the western allies so one could have a two player combined-allies or a three player separate SU and WA). Or at least that's what I tell myself each night when I go to sleep with my WITE2 manual under my pillow.


That is my dream also.


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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 5/12/2021 10:12:23 PM   
Bamilus


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combined WITW+WITE 2 hour turns plus full naval unit modeling from WITP and full air unit/pilot modeling from BTR. Every retired persons dream!

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 5/13/2021 12:14:44 AM   
pburton2000

 

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+1 to THIS !! :)

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 5/13/2021 3:42:28 AM   
kirkmcgill

 

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I'd retire just to play that

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 6/10/2021 7:52:38 AM   
Hardradi


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These two, then WitW switches to 1943-45 Campaign


< Message edited by Hardradi -- 6/10/2021 8:08:04 AM >

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 6/10/2021 9:20:08 AM   
Hagar

 

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Why not go for broke and throw War in the Pacific into the mix? Man, what a juggernaut that would be.

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 6/10/2021 11:21:14 AM   
beamslam

 

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Processor power + AI capabilities + playing time, should make such a project feasible

Meanwhile, Im also considering how to combine the WITW and WITE, by adjusting the forces send to the fronts and reserves. Maybe if a unit is heavily defeated in one front it goes to the reserve and then become unusable as reinforcements for the other front, before it first reenters the previous front.

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 6/10/2021 9:40:13 PM   
Hardradi


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War in the Pacific kicks off in Dec 41. Is there a later campaign?

In WitW, the carry over the Torch to Tunisia to the 1942-45 Grand Campaign would have to give some advantage/disadvantage to the winner/loser. Maybe a bonus/decrement of 1 to 3 points to say Morale or Logistics or Admin.

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 6/11/2021 2:55:43 AM   
Hardradi


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The switch, showing the map crossover area

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RE: WITE2+WITW Parent Game Proposal/Method Development ... - 6/11/2021 10:22:04 AM   
Hagar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hardradi
War in the Pacific kicks off in Dec 41. Is there a later campaign?

Yes, there are several with a later start date. Like one starting mid 1942.

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Ex-CORE for Arsenal of Democracy developer

COREd War in the East 2 - reworked aircraft, ground and leader imagery

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Post #: 14
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