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Merchant Ship Math - 5/5/2021 5:48:01 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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The British Start the 39 Scenario with 205 Merchants Ships ("MS"). It seems most Axis players are now only DOWing two minor nations that add MS to the British pool, namely Denmark (11 MS) and Belgium (4 MS). So effectively the British have 220 MS from relatively early in the game. Prior to the construction of the CV in June and the BB in November, the British can only build 10 MS every 180 days (roughly every 13 turns). Once these two capital ships are complete the British can build 60 MS every 13 turns. By my calculations this means that if the British maximize the production of MS from September 39 on, they can build a total of 170 MS by the end of 1941 (with 60 more in the build queue). The British can therefore theoretically have 390 MS by the end of 1941 less whatever number have been sunk by U-Boats. The only way the British can have more than this number is if they build shipyards.

In my AAR with Hadros where I am the Allies it is now February 42. Hadros has sunk 246 British MS, so if I had maximized British MS production I would have 144 MS. But since I didn't I only have 112 MS. The reason for the 32 MS shortage is because I delayed MS construction until the Spring of 1940 and because I built some Landing Ships.

In our mirror game where Hadros is the Allies, it is also now February 42. Hadros has lost 207 British MS to my U-Boats. If he maximized MS Production he should therefore have 183 MS. In fact he has 229. So obviously he did build lots of British shipyards.

I am posting this only to explain the importance to newer players (and even Veteran players like myself) of maximizing your UK MS production and even building additional shipyards.
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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/5/2021 6:31:26 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Escorts are also vital. I usually have 40+ by 1942.

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/5/2021 7:46:23 PM   
stjeand


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NOW YOU TELL ME...

My Allies are getting dusted...1941 clear turn in NOVEMBER...not a harsh winter...that finished the USSR off. Urals will fall in the Spring.

But the UK is down to 90 MS...I have 50+ coming in the next two turns but to late...

The US and UK have their hands full. Sadly they need a bucket.



As I said in another post...I would like to suggest that the Netherlands and Norway MS fleet be presented to the UK over a set number of turns rather then all at once. I think that would first off represent better as ships are at sea and could be in the Pacific...and also not be such a huge blow against the Axis so quickly. Giving the UK another 80 MS by attacking Norway and the Netherlands instantly seems off to me. Were not some of the Netherlands fleet in the Pacific? Perhaps they don't come back until the Japanese attack them, since they are needed there? Not sure regarding Norway...

Just thinking about ways that make it so that the Axis may want to hit these countries still.

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/5/2021 8:03:58 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Escorts are also vital. I usually have 40+ by 1942.


Yes, escorts are important too. By 40 do you mean combined UK and US escorts, or 40 just for the UK?

It occurs to me that another way of increasing UK MS production is for the UK to send production to Canada. If 100 production is sent every 13 turns this would allow Canada to build 10 MS every 13 turns (with the rest of Canada's production being used to build escorts). This would increase the maximum number of UK MS built to the end of 41 or early 42 by 40 MS to a total of 430. Perhaps that is what Hadros did; if so, very clever of him.

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/5/2021 8:11:18 PM   
stjeand


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Well be careful with sending convoys to CA...

The Uboats get two attacks when you do so if you are tight you start to get beat pretty bad losing basically double your MS.

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/5/2021 8:16:15 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

NOW YOU TELL ME...

My Allies are getting dusted...1941 clear turn in NOVEMBER...not a harsh winter...that finished the USSR off. Urals will fall in the Spring.

But the UK is down to 90 MS...I have 50+ coming in the next two turns but to late...

The US and UK have their hands full. Sadly they need a bucket.



As I said in another post...I would like to suggest that the Netherlands and Norway MS fleet be presented to the UK over a set number of turns rather then all at once. I think that would first off represent better as ships are at sea and could be in the Pacific...and also not be such a huge blow against the Axis so quickly. Giving the UK another 80 MS by attacking Norway and the Netherlands instantly seems off to me. Were not some of the Netherlands fleet in the Pacific? Perhaps they don't come back until the Japanese attack them, since they are needed there? Not sure regarding Norway...

Just thinking about ways that make it so that the Axis may want to hit these countries still.


Just read an interesting article here: https://pressto.amu.edu.pl/index.php/fsp/article/download/3613/3645/#:~:text=On%20the%20outbreak%20of%20the,in%20the%20balance%20of%20payments.

Sounds like you may be right and that German DOW or not the Norwegian Merchant Fleet was going to be used by the Allies.

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/5/2021 9:04:49 PM   
CHINCHIN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand
As I said in another post...I would like to suggest that the Netherlands and Norway MS fleet be presented to the UK over a set number of turns rather then all at once. I think that would first off represent better as ships are at sea and could be in the Pacific...and also not be such a huge blow against the Axis so quickly. Giving the UK another 80 MS by attacking Norway and the Netherlands instantly seems off to me. Were not some of the Netherlands fleet in the Pacific? Perhaps they don't come back until the Japanese attack them, since they are needed there? Not sure regarding Norway...


This can be done with the game editor. You can reduce the starting escorts and MM, and with an event receive the rest on the date we want.

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Post #: 7
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/5/2021 11:42:21 PM   
stjeand


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Chinchin agreed...BUT you can not make it multiplayer since those scenarios are on the server.


So if it was going to be used...events could be set up such that the fleet would transition to the UK.

And then that would allow the Axis to DOW on it with no "additional" bonus to the Allies.
There could even be an event that says if they do not attack it more merchant ships fall into Allied hands as I am sure the Axis destroyed quite a few during their attacks.

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Post #: 8
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/7/2021 10:23:42 AM   
CHINCHIN

 

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Ok stjeand.

I play a Championship of Civilization IV, in which one player hosts the game, and the others connect to it.

This has the advantage that if the transmission is cut, the game is recorded with all the movements that were made up to that moment. There is no possible failure, your actions are there.

And then you can play any mod. If someone has a different mod, the game detects it, and does not allow to connect.

Civilization IV is a 2007 game, so it shouldn't be difficult to do something like that in WP. There is no doubt for me that WP is the best game of its kind by far, but the multiplayer is a bit lame.

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Post #: 9
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/7/2021 12:17:35 PM   
stjeand


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Well it may be something that can be "requested"...I don't know.


I would have to test that. Maybe I am wrong.

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Post #: 10
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/7/2021 10:29:23 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CHINCHIN

Ok stjeand.

I play a Championship of Civilization IV, in which one player hosts the game, and the others connect to it.

This has the advantage that if the transmission is cut, the game is recorded with all the movements that were made up to that moment. There is no possible failure, your actions are there.

And then you can play any mod. If someone has a different mod, the game detects it, and does not allow to connect.

Civilization IV is a 2007 game, so it shouldn't be difficult to do something like that in WP. There is no doubt for me that WP is the best game of its kind by far, but the multiplayer is a bit lame.


Civ is a product of a huge company. There is only 1 Alvaro. I doubt many wargames like this have Civ-type multiplayer. WiTE allows multiple players on each side by allowing players to do their moves in turn before sending the game to the other side. I used that until my Canadian game partner but we both moved time zones in the opposite direction from each other, which made it impractical to skype each other to discuss our turn.That said, WP is a much smaller game and turns never take hours! Who would want to be the Italians or the USSR in a '39 scenario?. I doubt that there would be much call for over 2 players in a WP gane, but you could always test that on the forum.

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/8/2021 6:26:30 AM   
CHINCHIN

 

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I'm not saying it because of the number of players, which is only useful in the case of a global scenario. It is because of the impossibility of reloading and the possibility of using mods, this does seem important to me.

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/8/2021 5:41:11 PM   
sillyflower


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I don't think the game has mods, other than cosmetic ones.

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 13
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/10/2021 10:46:56 AM   
CHINCHIN

 

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I mean user-made mods, I was making a mod, but if it can't be used for PBEM it's not worth finishing.

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Post #: 14
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/11/2021 4:50:23 PM   
stjeand


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Well mods can be made in the files event files, but sadly you can't, at least that I am aware of use the in multipler.


I suspect the reason is...it would be impossible to control all the mods and if one person could change it...could their opponent change it mid game?
That would be weird and tough to control but possible I suspect.


I would love to be able to modify somethings for multiplayer.

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Post #: 15
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/12/2021 8:43:04 AM   
CHINCHIN

 

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In the Civilization IV multiplayer the mods are perfectly controlled, any difference is detected and does not allow to continue, the player-server and the players of the game must have the same mod. What I do not know if it is easy to do this, the source code of this game is free, so you can see how it controls it, for those who understand programming, of course.

I have a half-finished mod, in which I leave the Dutch and Norwegian MM at 20 each. Modify some technology that is never investigated to make them more attractive. And events to prevent actions that we only do for the advantage of knowing the rules of the game, such as invading Yugoslavia as soon as possible, or Vichy only accepting the French surrender, Syria, Iraq, Persia ...

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/12/2021 3:19:54 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I wasn't aware of an inability to play a mod on PBEM. Try a simple test, make a small mod (like the one CHINCHIN MADE), make sure your opponent and you have it in your campaigns folder, start the challenge with the modded scenario, see if the opponent can accept, etc.

I'm not even sure the opponent has to have the mod. Saved games in Warplan contain all the necessary scenario file info.

Perhaps Alvaro can chime in here.


< Message edited by gwgardner -- 5/12/2021 3:21:40 PM >

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/13/2021 1:55:47 PM   
CHINCHIN

 

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It has allowed me to launch the game with my Mod, to see if stjeand can connect without problems.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by CHINCHIN -- 5/13/2021 2:12:09 PM >


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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/13/2021 2:41:28 PM   
stjeand


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It will not take my password. Could be that I do not have the mod...so waiting for a copy of it to test.


This might be a good thing

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/13/2021 3:35:43 PM   
CHINCHIN

 

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Send me a PM with your email

< Message edited by CHINCHIN -- 5/13/2021 3:36:14 PM >


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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/13/2021 6:08:02 PM   
stjeand


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Mods appear to work. You do have to have the folder with all the files in it or it just hangs when trying to accept the game.

I think you also need the .scn file in that directory...I was not taking any chances to copied the 39 one.

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Post #: 21
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/13/2021 6:58:00 PM   
CHINCHIN

 

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Well!!

This will open a new panorama for the games in PBEM.

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 5/23/2021 7:34:48 PM   
ComadrejaKorp

 

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Cool! what a great find!

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Post #: 23
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 6/22/2021 2:49:44 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

The British Start the 39 Scenario with 205 Merchants Ships ("MS"). It seems most Axis players are now only DOWing two minor nations that add MS to the British pool, namely Denmark (11 MS) and Belgium (4 MS). So effectively the British have 220 MS from relatively early in the game. Prior to the construction of the CV in June and the BB in November, the British can only build 10 MS every 180 days (roughly every 13 turns). Once these two capital ships are complete the British can build 60 MS every 13 turns. By my calculations this means that if the British maximize the production of MS from September 39 on, they can build a total of 170 MS by the end of 1941 (with 60 more in the build queue). The British can therefore theoretically have 390 MS by the end of 1941 less whatever number have been sunk by U-Boats. The only way the British can have more than this number is if they build shipyards.

In my AAR with Hadros where I am the Allies it is now February 42. Hadros has sunk 246 British MS, so if I had maximized British MS production I would have 144 MS. But since I didn't I only have 112 MS. The reason for the 32 MS shortage is because I delayed MS construction until the Spring of 1940 and because I built some Landing Ships.

In our mirror game where Hadros is the Allies, it is also now February 42. Hadros has lost 207 British MS to my U-Boats. If he maximized MS Production he should therefore have 183 MS. In fact he has 229. So obviously he did build lots of British shipyards.

I am posting this only to explain the importance to newer players (and even Veteran players like myself) of maximizing your UK MS production and even building additional shipyards.


So now, I am quite sure that UK needs to build more shipyards.
I am also buying shipyards for USA during 1939/1940. A good investment imo.


_____________________________

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RE: Merchant Ship Math - 6/22/2021 3:12:47 PM   
Nirosi

 

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Hi,

Let's not forget Canada. That is another 10 MM at any time in production (plus up to 5 escorts), so the 1939 capacity is about 20 MM for the UK every 180 days. So, if no mistake on my part, about 40 MM more by end of 1941, and another 10 in queue.

By November 1940, the max capacity bumps to 70 MM at any time in construction (plus enough space left for escorts between Canada and UK). So my guess is that it should be enough most of the time until the US kicks in. However, that means not too many LC (unless taken from either MM or escorts if BOA goes OK enough for the Allies). If the UK wants to have a lot of LC by early 42, then shipyards would probably be necessary if the BOA is violent enough.

I know my usual opponents like to build them by the 1000s literally

< Message edited by Nirosi -- 6/22/2021 3:21:21 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 6/22/2021 3:14:04 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

The British Start the 39 Scenario with 205 Merchants Ships ("MS"). It seems most Axis players are now only DOWing two minor nations that add MS to the British pool, namely Denmark (11 MS) and Belgium (4 MS). So effectively the British have 220 MS from relatively early in the game. Prior to the construction of the CV in June and the BB in November, the British can only build 10 MS every 180 days (roughly every 13 turns). Once these two capital ships are complete the British can build 60 MS every 13 turns. By my calculations this means that if the British maximize the production of MS from September 39 on, they can build a total of 170 MS by the end of 1941 (with 60 more in the build queue). The British can therefore theoretically have 390 MS by the end of 1941 less whatever number have been sunk by U-Boats. The only way the British can have more than this number is if they build shipyards.

In my AAR with Hadros where I am the Allies it is now February 42. Hadros has sunk 246 British MS, so if I had maximized British MS production I would have 144 MS. But since I didn't I only have 112 MS. The reason for the 32 MS shortage is because I delayed MS construction until the Spring of 1940 and because I built some Landing Ships.

In our mirror game where Hadros is the Allies, it is also now February 42. Hadros has lost 207 British MS to my U-Boats. If he maximized MS Production he should therefore have 183 MS. In fact he has 229. So obviously he did build lots of British shipyards.

I am posting this only to explain the importance to newer players (and even Veteran players like myself) of maximizing your UK MS production and even building additional shipyards.


So now, I am quite sure that UK needs to build more shipyards.
I am also buying shipyards for USA during 1939/1940. A good investment imo.



In hindsight I am now not so sure that Hadros did build UK shipyards. I think it more likely is that what happened is that when I attacked Vichy the bug happened that gave him extra UK shipyards.

But I agree that once this bug is fixed it will be more important than ever that the UK build shipyard early.

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Post #: 26
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 6/22/2021 3:29:36 PM   
Nirosi

 

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quote:

But I agree that once this bug is fixed it will be more important than ever that the UK build shipyard early.


Even before, as I except players will be honorable enough to monitor it to ensure not to exploit it now that they know!

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Post #: 27
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 6/22/2021 4:25:59 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nirosi

Even before, as I except players will be honorable enough to monitor it to ensure not to exploit it now that they know!


There is one preventing action that you can do.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Nirosi)
Post #: 28
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 6/22/2021 5:49:29 PM   
Nirosi

 

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quote:

There is one preventing action that you can do.


LOL!

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Post #: 29
RE: Merchant Ship Math - 6/23/2021 2:40:48 PM   
Harrybanana

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nirosi

quote:

But I agree that once this bug is fixed it will be more important than ever that the UK build shipyard early.


Even before, as I except players will be honorable enough to monitor it to ensure not to exploit it now that they know!


Well I will certainly add it to my list of House Rules. But I suspect there are lots of players who don't follow the Forums Posts closely or who will just miss this one.

(in reply to Nirosi)
Post #: 30
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