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Super Depot - 5/3/2021 4:32:44 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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Been testing Super depots in a side head-to-head game against myself and I am at the point that Super depots are way too powerful for Germans in 41.

I really haven't used them in my games but I see the Germans using this to effectively supply their units at the expense of not converting rail hexes. The trade off is far far far too lenient when the Germans were not supposed to be able to supply their troops effectively and this ability of Super depot negates those negatives for the Germans.

Super Depot shouldn't show up until late 43 or 44 at the earliest. But that is just me. Please feel free to comment or change my mind. Definitely should not be in the game for the Germans in 41.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 5/3/2021 4:36:06 PM >
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RE: Super Depot - 5/3/2021 5:06:26 PM   
loki100


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Wider question - is this a sensible change for the great majority of players who simply want to play the AI?

They don't negate the negatives, they make a large impact on how those factors work. Guess the question is do you really think this is a needed change or is it reflecting wider issues with your approach to game play?

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RE: Super Depot - 5/3/2021 5:14:16 PM   
M60A3TTS


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The underlying situation is that the Red Army cannot supply itself effectively west of Warsaw without them. That is even with plenty of depots and repaired rail. That situation so far as I have seen has no parallel to the Axis side, although that said if their armies got really far to the east and into the deepest part of the Caucasus, it might become an issue. But to get to Moscow, no problem doing so without them.

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RE: Super Depot - 5/3/2021 9:16:02 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

Wider question - is this a sensible change for the great majority of players who simply want to play the AI?

They don't negate the negatives, they make a large impact on how those factors work. Guess the question is do you really think this is a needed change or is it reflecting wider issues with your approach to game play?


If this conversation is going to be based on "want to play the AI" I am out of the conversation. I only play Head-to-Head against another player or against myself. I will just rule out for Germany during 41 as a house rule the super depot option, even for me as Germany.

****Negate meaning = cause to be ineffective**** In this case I was referring to the Germans getting more supply then they could normally receive by using normal rail even with the inclusion of rules of the negatives that Germany has into early 42 placed on said rail usage. Thus "negates" is the correct verbiage in my original statement & I stand by it since the Super Depot makes allocations of more supply than normally would be on hand. Thus causing the negative rule-set placed on the rail by the manual to be "ineffective" because a BIGGER draw of supply is made to this depot & thus supplying the troops very effectively. ****


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RE: Super Depot - 5/3/2021 9:51:43 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
...

If this conversation is going to be based on "want to play the AI" I am out of the conversation. I only play Head-to-Head against another player or against myself. I will just rule out for Germany during 41 as a house rule the super depot option, even for me as Germany.
...



which is fine, but a good 80% of the purchasers will only ever play vs the AI and a sizeable chunk of what is left will mix AI with HtH.

So I personally don't think, at the level of how the rules are coded, its particularly fair to dismiss that constituency.

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RE: Super Depot - 5/3/2021 10:10:59 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
...

If this conversation is going to be based on "want to play the AI" I am out of the conversation. I only play Head-to-Head against another player or against myself. I will just rule out for Germany during 41 as a house rule the super depot option, even for me as Germany.
...



which is fine, but a good 80% of the purchasers will only ever play vs the AI and a sizeable chunk of what is left will mix AI with HtH.

So I personally don't think, at the level of how the rules are coded, its particularly fair to dismiss that constituency.


Makes sense. Thank you for looking :)

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RE: Super Depot - 5/3/2021 10:13:41 PM   
karonagames


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I think this is a subject worthy of debate. In the 5 games I have played; 3AI and 2 MP, I have increased my use of SD's from zero in my first game and getting smashed, to using them pretty extensively in my most recent games and seeing positive results - I may be close to a sudden death win 60 turns into an MP game. I am seeing the downside of not improving the basic logistics network so I think I still need to find a more balanced use for SD's. I haven't played enough games to find them game breaking, but I do feel that the axis are gaining more benefits than penalties.

This issue will replace the HQ buildup issue, that never really got fixed in WITE1, but I think SD's will be fixable with some caps applied to their usage.

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RE: Super Depot - 5/3/2021 11:11:25 PM   
CapAndGown


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Please share with me how super depots are so powerful. I have only had one so far in my German game and I didn't think too much of it. Right now my troops are still advancing too fast forward for me to really want to use them. I am more worried about getting depots forward than making them big. The only places where my supply situation looks poor is in the south where my troops are almost to the Donbas and the Crimea and the rail heads are lagging far behind.

Later on, when the front becomes more stable, perhaps during the winter when I am defending, then I can see super depots being very important.

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RE: Super Depot - 5/4/2021 5:02:08 AM   
Nix77

 

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I have very limited experience and playtime with WitE2, but to me it seems the German logistics situation is way too easy at the start of the campaign, even without super depots.

I'm not sure what exactly causes this feeling, but seeing the German side reach Leningrad REALLY fast in the AARs, and crossing the Dnepr without breaking a sweat makes me worried about the balance.

Depot capacity doesn't seem to be a limit, unless you're using a super depot. Maybe the depot capacities are too high? If they were lower, then super depot would be a valid option only on big railyards with big HQ support.

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RE: Super Depot - 5/4/2021 3:18:15 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

Please share with me how super depots are so powerful. I have only had one so far in my German game and I didn't think too much of it. Right now my troops are still advancing too fast forward for me to really want to use them. I am more worried about getting depots forward than making them big. The only places where my supply situation looks poor is in the south where my troops are almost to the Donbas and the Crimea and the rail heads are lagging far behind.

Later on, when the front becomes more stable, perhaps during the winter when I am defending, then I can see super depots being very important.


Tyronec had a very good post in on of his last BETA AAR's where he used it. I posted his words from that post #5 here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5012949 in the Opponents Wanted section. I would post a picture of his super depot but still can't do that on the Matrix website.

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