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How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet?

 
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How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/26/2021 7:01:37 PM   
laagamer


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New player! I'm curious what happens if I try this!

Instant death, perhaps?
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/26/2021 7:18:51 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

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Anything with an envirosuit or armor doesn't care about how breathable the atmosphere is, so it's actually largely irrelevant. Population might suffer mass casualties from the atmosphere if somebody bombs their city to rubble, though.

(in reply to laagamer)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/26/2021 8:32:05 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Dome Farming and a Environmental Suit or better as armor.
Starting with E-Suits, no environmental condition short of extreme Radiation (400++) maters anymore.

Personally I found insidious planets easier militarily. Environmental Suits act as the 1st level of armor. While you always have them unlocked at start, they are not equipped by default if not nessesary. As a result infantry on planets that need E-Suits tend to have twice the HP.

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/26/2021 9:00:25 PM   
laagamer


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I started on base tech level 3, so I don't think I have those yet? Is that bad? lol I did just discover it like, turn 2 or 3. I then switched to researching it, which should eventually allow to create a formation with them, is I think how it works.

I'm still learning lol

Interestingly, the minor I've encountered aren't militia, but nomads in freaking envo suits and mounted on weird alien cavalry!

Very strange!

But my planet is insidious atmosphere, and toxic agriculture.

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 12:16:46 AM   
DasTactic

 

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First of all, I'd strongly recommend starting on Tech 4 for your first games (or all games TBH). Tech 3 is very 'gamey' at the moment.

Next, keep in mind that the planet has been colonised for a couple of thousand years and so the inhabitants are used to surviving on the planet by using domes and protective suits. So essentially you don't really need to concern yourself with that aspect. :)

(in reply to laagamer)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 8:05:50 AM   
Maerchen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DasTactic

First of all, I'd strongly recommend starting on Tech 4 for your first games (or all games TBH). Tech 3 is very 'gamey' at the moment.




I respectfully disagree with this conclusion, and actively encourage new players to play Tech III.

Tech III is an additional layer of difficulty in comparison to Tech IV start for sure, but it teaches you things you cannot learn on tech IV starts.

Tech III teaches you to focus on discovering and researching the right things, like how to fight energy shortage, prospecting for resources, or modelling a tank unit that has a high early game survivability.

Tech IV gives you energy tech from the start, and you are not bottlenecked into getting some sort of energy production discovered, making you miss out on the tech research mechanics that will help you in later games discovering and researching those tech you want vs those techs you want later.

Tech IV gives you a rare metal and metal deposit right from the start, and you are not forced to prospect or build recyclers early game to get those resources, missing out that struggle experience that helps you in later games or games with different resource shortages.

Tech IV gives you a free light tank model, which is really poorly designed at least.
Without the model design discovery-chain experience, you will miss out quite an interesting game mechanic. With that I mean you do not want to model artillery, bikes or APC until you discovered light tanks because this will widen the range of discoverable models, making it more difficult to discover light tanks at all.

And if you start on a very mountaneous world - cannot recommend for new players -, the existing tank model may be kinda worthless and hinder you getting advanced ranged models.






_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to DasTactic)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 9:16:00 AM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

I respectfully disagree with this conclusion, and actively encourage new players to play Tech III.

Tech III is an additional layer of difficulty in comparison to Tech IV start for sure, but it teaches you things you cannot learn on tech IV starts.

Tech III teaches you to focus on discovering and researching the right things, like how to fight energy shortage, prospecting for resources, or modelling a tank unit that has a high early game survivability.

Which is a advanced topic, you should delve into after you understood the basics of economy and warfare.

The only price for adding steepness to the initial learning curve, is less people getting a hang of the game!

(in reply to Maerchen)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 9:27:19 AM   
deMangler


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I consider myself a beginner at this game even after over 400 hours. I have always played tech III start with normal progression and regular difficulty.
I have never won a game yet but I have enjoyed pretty much every game and learned so much each time.

About the OP question - I have found that it is always worth checking the manual (5.2.1.15 in this case), then trying to look at all the tool-tips and, then find out by playing the game.
I know myself the first thing I am tempted to do with the kind of complex games I play is look for a forum or a wiki. Shadow Empire is one of those rare gems of a 4x where a huge part of the eXplore is to learn the interface and mechanics, by eXploring them in-game.
Learning a new interface used to be part of the fun of games - no two interfaces would be alike. Now in these days of interface design being a science in itself, it can be frustrating to (need to)learn an interface that it shaped by the internal structure of the game, when the game is itself is rather non-standard. I hear a lot about how this interface is bad, but it isn't. It is certainly not perfect. but most of the perceived faults come from it being just more true to the game structure than it is to some currently accepted interface standards. Which I think is great.

Anyway - blah blah, there is so much information in all the reports and tool-tips, but knowing how to use it in-game seems to mainly just come from experience.

And to top it off, the community of this game is great for dishing out the help you need without too many spoilers!


(in reply to Maerchen)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 10:39:42 AM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

I consider myself a beginner at this game even after over 400 hours. I have always played tech III start with normal progression and regular difficulty.
I have never won a game yet but I have enjoyed pretty much every game and learned so much each time.

And how many hundreds of people failed and thus never bothered to go onto the forum?

A single case, is meerely a dot in the Statistic - drowned out by the real mass.

(in reply to deMangler)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 11:00:03 AM   
deMangler


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

I consider myself a beginner at this game even after over 400 hours. I have always played tech III start with normal progression and regular difficulty.
I have never won a game yet but I have enjoyed pretty much every game and learned so much each time.

And how many hundreds of people failed and thus never bothered to go onto the forum?

A single case, is meerely a dot in the Statistic - drowned out by the real mass.

Indeed. Who these days has the free time, or the lack of better things to do?

Maybe this game will mainly be appreciated by people like me, who for some reason, maybe health or circumstance, fill that narrow niche of having lots of attention and time to apply to something that does not produce a material reward.
I can say that I am very glad this game exists as it does though. I have become pretty tired of computer games that I really like, but after a few hours just become tired and repetitive.

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 5:05:00 PM   
laagamer


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Hey, really appreciate the advice everyone! Thanks!

I think I understand now, but maybe on an insidious planet, I should start at a higher Tech level to get suits.

In regards to Tech Level III, I do feel like it's allowed me to learn how to solve resource shortages.

And this game is NOT easy to get into, unless you like reading.

I've umpired for 10 years, so rule books aren't foreign to me, and hilariously enough I'm trying to become a librarian. But, using the search function of a digital manual is a godsend. It allows to to play, search, and read as you go.

I would like to learn more about how to rush tanks. I thought discovery of specific weapons was random? I'll search the manual on my lunch break.

(in reply to deMangler)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 5:58:23 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

I think I understand now, but maybe on an insidious planet, I should start at a higher Tech level to get suits.

Having the suits and having them equipped has nothing to do with techlevel!
Enviromental suits are a starting technology, even on Techlevel 3. You have them in every game. Otherwise your soldiers would literally die the moment they are not on a Asset.
However the starting designs will only equip the suits, if they are needed (due to the planet Atmosphere being hostile). Otherwise you have to work them in using the Design Council.

The techlevel has other effects. On T4 you have these advantages ove T3:
- you start with a power generation technology - Solar Panels
- you start with Armors and teh technology to build RPG troops
- you start with a nationalized Recycling Asset - the Rare Metals are worth up to 5 Credits/Unit when sold
- depending on difficulty, you might have other building slike a Private Light Industry

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 4/27/2021 5:59:09 PM >

(in reply to laagamer)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 6:03:48 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

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You actually do start with envirosuits even in the tech 3 start. The tech three includes padded envirosuits, which provide additional protection against enemy attack, but the basic envirosuits already protect against a hostile atmosphere.
quote:

ORIGINAL: laagamer

I would like to learn more about how to rush tanks. I thought discovery of specific weapons was random? I'll search the manual on my lunch break.

Light tanks don't have a tech prerequisite, so you can just pick up the Model Design Council and have them do discovery until they give you tanks. There's a limited number of options for model type discovery available at the start, so if you don't design any models or research any techs that would unlock extra ones, you'll get light tanks pretty quickly.

(in reply to laagamer)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/27/2021 6:27:50 PM   
Maerchen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

I respectfully disagree with this conclusion, and actively encourage new players to play Tech III.

Tech III is an additional layer of difficulty in comparison to Tech IV start for sure, but it teaches you things you cannot learn on tech IV starts.

Tech III teaches you to focus on discovering and researching the right things, like how to fight energy shortage, prospecting for resources, or modelling a tank unit that has a high early game survivability.


Which is a advanced topic, you should delve into after you understood the basics of economy and warfare.

The only price for adding steepness to the initial learning curve, is less people getting a hang of the game!


I would like to remind that most of us are talking at getting started with the view from a mountain of experience.

New players starting at Tech III and beginner difficulty are confronted with a wonky UI, but at that level the game is quite forgiving to the inexperienced player at making mistakes.
We learn from mistakes, and starting at Tech IV is a bit like learning how to ride a bicycle with training wheels attached. Training wheels are a terrible invention, as they actively hinder you learning how to balance on two wheels, lean into curves, etc.

In my opinion, the equivalent of this is a Tech IV start for new players.




_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 14
RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 12:35:05 AM   
laagamer


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Thanks for all the good stuff, guys!

I think I understand.

Quick question in regards to model design. Why does it cost more BP points to create a new one from scratch? I've read the manual and I don't understand. When wouldn't you want to upgrade?

(in reply to Maerchen)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 12:54:20 AM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

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Iterating on an existing design becomes more expensive the more times it has already been upgraded, so eventually it will be cheaper to start a new one.

(in reply to laagamer)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 5:45:53 AM   
Maerchen

 

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There is one and one stat alone that defines your model design: Structural design. It ranges from 70 to 130 and is a flat multiplier of all other stats of a specific model and doesn't change anymore once it is RNG rolled.

Everything below 95 is assumed to be bad, everything above 105 is good, at least in my book.
Every time you research something new like Combat Armor for infantry and artillery crew or advances in Applied Science techs, it only gets to be used by your soldiers if you model up.

The next best design stat is base design, which is affected by field testing. It has a starting stat range of 70-100 after it has been modelled the first time, but every kill by a unit raises its field testing value by 1 and every loss by 5. The square root of field testing points is added to your base design for future modelling.

Because you may get initial poor designs, you want to model new ones of the same type asap or if you got lucky with, like a 112 structural design, you may want to update it after you researched COmbat armor and not padded envirosuits, because the design process of the same model in later iterations becomes more expensive.

5.12.3.6.ff for reference, page 327ff manual.



_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
Post #: 17
RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 9:48:59 AM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laagamer

Thanks for all the good stuff, guys!

I think I understand.

Quick question in regards to model design. Why does it cost more BP points to create a new one from scratch? I've read the manual and I don't understand. When wouldn't you want to upgrade?

Poor structural Design Roll - that is the reason to start a new model line.

(in reply to laagamer)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 10:00:08 AM   
deMangler


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quote:

ORIGINAL: laagamer

Thanks for all the good stuff, guys!

I think I understand.

Quick question in regards to model design. Why does it cost more BP points to create a new one from scratch? I've read the manual and I don't understand. When wouldn't you want to upgrade?

If you are into videos, I found the following helpful for understanding model design:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke3Cm8mlxos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfOV55xJAa0

(in reply to laagamer)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 1:09:45 PM   
zgrssd

 

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If you are more into reading, I wrote a guide on model design:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2307452953

(in reply to deMangler)
Post #: 20
RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 2:29:43 PM   
deMangler


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

If you are more into reading, I wrote a guide on model design:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2307452953

That is a great guide! Thanks!

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 21
RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 5:10:58 PM   
eddieballgame

 

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I agree that not starting at Tech III is recommended (highly?) for new players.
Though that is all I played initially & forced me to read, watch DasTactic's videos & learn.
Admittedly, though, now I would like an option to start with even less discovered tech.
Maybe a 'bare bones' start of absolutely nothing. (for single player, of course)


< Message edited by eddieballgame -- 4/28/2021 5:18:45 PM >

(in reply to deMangler)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/28/2021 5:15:23 PM   
eddieballgame

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: deMangler


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

If you are more into reading, I wrote a guide on model design:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2307452953

That is a great guide! Thanks!


Yes it is.

(in reply to deMangler)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/29/2021 4:14:53 PM   
laagamer


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Thanks for all the input, once again guys!

An interesting interaction. I chose a the planet that's desert and water, with no life. I also put it on beginner, with Haven's and Outpost as starting options. I also chose a low starting population for the planet.

There are no Free Folk on the planet. Even the other majors have zero Free Folk in them.

As a result, it keeps auto-grabbing workers from my population to fill needs, which in turn is causing my worker happiness to plummet to zero.

I'm trying to figure out how to stop it. I'm tinkering with zone orders, but they just keep pulling population, because my factories are only at like 60% production capacity.

Really cool to see the world's population fluctuation and what not.

(in reply to eddieballgame)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/29/2021 4:26:26 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Outpost means extra few Population. Also not a "learning option". Managing public workers with such massive population constraints is not a easy task at all.
In a way, Haven of Peace and Outposts are even opposites - one increases and one decreases populations.

Haven/Robinson Cruso would be my advice.

(in reply to laagamer)
Post #: 25
RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/29/2021 9:12:33 PM   
laagamer


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Is Caruso the one that makes you the only Major?

That seemed a bit too easy. I haven't encountered a Minor on beginner difficulty I've lost to yet.

Unless Minors can become Majors? I don't think so?

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 26
RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/29/2021 10:35:41 PM   
Maerchen

 

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Robinson Crusoe, famous single survivor. Yes. Enrico Caruso, not so much. Good voice, though.

PLaying Crusoe allows you to test airforce and other mechanics without getting sealclubbed by other majors. It is a testing ground setup, especially meant to be that easy.

Minors can conquer majors. Saw that happen sometimes. But I think they stay minors.

Zgrssrd, your expertise is needed on that topic.





_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to laagamer)
Post #: 27
RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/29/2021 10:48:49 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

Minors can conquer majors. Saw that happen sometimes. But I think they stay minors.

Zgrssrd, your expertise is needed on that topic.

By my understanding, what starts as a minor stays as a minor.

Minors - with and withut cities - have a ton of easements regarding Logistics and Production. So much so, there would be no way to turn a minor with cities into a Major.
You would take a well functioning minor, and suddenly subject it to every logistics and production rule fo a major.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 4/29/2021 10:49:30 PM >

(in reply to Maerchen)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/30/2021 1:24:59 AM   
eddieballgame

 

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Hundreds of hours playing & have never seen a 'minor faction' evolve into a 'major faction'.
Nothing in the Manual on it, that I am aware of, but it would be pretty cool if it could happen.
Of course, you can assimilate (friendly or forcibly) a minor into your...realm, then make use of their cities as your own.
There was this post in 'reddit';

"Rain_Coast
4 months ago
They can evolve into major powers, in my current game I vassalized a minor power - which subsequently evolved into a major ten or fifteen turns later before I could play Unification or Annexation.

Now I have a major power which is also my vassal, so I can see all their troop movements but must negotiate with them as a major power."

So Vic...is it possible?

< Message edited by eddieballgame -- 4/30/2021 1:27:29 AM >

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: How do I survive on an insidious atmosphere planet? - 4/30/2021 2:40:24 AM   
misterprimus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DasTactic

First of all, I'd strongly recommend starting on Tech 4 for your first games (or all games TBH). Tech 3 is very 'gamey' at the moment.

Next, keep in mind that the planet has been colonised for a couple of thousand years and so the inhabitants are used to surviving on the planet by using domes and protective suits. So essentially you don't really need to concern yourself with that aspect. :)

Why is it gamey? Because it relies on RNG and you discovering city-based water recovery/energy generation before you run out?

(in reply to DasTactic)
Post #: 30
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