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Subsequent Surrender Suggestion

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Subsequent Surrender Suggestion - 4/21/2021 6:21:49 PM   


Posts: 46
Joined: 4/5/2019
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Hey all,

I know I have complained about this before, but I continue to run into weird results on account of countries being liberated (i.e., "reborn") and then subsequently surrendering.

I have found the problem mostly arises in the case France. Say it is 1944 and the Allies -- after a fierce battle -- liberate Paris. Sometimes France is "reborn" right away (or the next turn or whatever) only to to be followed by an Axis counter-attack that retakes Paris. The problem is that once France is reborn, France will almost certainly surrender for the second time if Paris is retaken by the Axis (hence the problem of the "subsequent surrender"). All the Allied supply centres in France will then decline and/or revert to Axis control. That can have a disproportionately negative impact on the Allies -- least 'til their supply returns.

This doesn't make sense. In the real war, the vast majority of Allied supplies were coming through ports or over the beaches or over Mulberries -- not from domestic French production. So the existence or non-existence of a French government should not really impact that to any measurable degree.

This pretty much only happens when Paris is at or very near the front line. And it serves as a huge disincentive to liberate Paris unless you can 100% guarantee it won't fall again -- an eventuality that is not always possible to guarantee 100%.

My solution would seem to be fairly straight-forward. You could change the algorithm so that a previously conquered and now liberated country is only reborn if it is liberated AND there are no enemy units within, say, three or five (or whatever) hexes of the capital.

In addition, I would suggest that the liberation only be possible if the capital is liberated by a non-paratrooper (i.e., dropping a raiding paratrooper behind enemy line on Paris or another capital should not trigger the event). And I would furthermore suggest that partisans not trigger this event either. In a current game, the Axis has attacked and conquered Turkey. Later, my opponent left Ankara unoccupied for a turn. A partisan popped up. Turkey (which had previously surrendered) was reborn. The Axis rather easily crushed the partisan and Turkey subsequently surrendered and all the hexes that the Russians were occupying in the far east of the country either reverted to Axis control or (if they happened to be occupied) dropped in supply.


Post #: 1
RE: Subsequent Surrender Suggestion - 4/22/2021 3:13:00 PM   


Posts: 124
Joined: 9/29/2018
Status: online
I agree this can be a real issue when the Allies invade France and if there is hard fighting over Paris. Would support a solution of liberation contingent on X many enemy units not present within Y number of hexes.

(in reply to MJY)
Post #: 2
RE: Subsequent Surrender Suggestion - 4/22/2021 7:06:54 PM   


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Joined: 5/6/2017
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I think Allied City and Port supply in France should be based on the number of French cities captured. Say 5 French cities are captured and Allied supply goes to 6 in cities & ports, 7 - 7 etc.

I see no logical reason that a paratrooper wouldn't be able to capture Paris.

One of the basic principles of wargaming is to always have a unit in your Capital cities.

(in reply to Will952)
Post #: 3
RE: Subsequent Surrender Suggestion - 4/24/2021 9:47:39 PM   


Posts: 46
Joined: 4/5/2019
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The reason I suggested exempting a para drop is that occasionally there will be a game where your air units nuke a garrison on Paris, you drop an airbourne unit on the city, and suddenly France is "liberated." And while liberating France may be a longer-term goal, it certainly would not in that instance.


(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 4
RE: Subsequent Surrender Suggestion - 4/25/2021 11:59:30 AM   


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Joined: 5/6/2017
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I understand that, you need to defend Paris more heavily (AA?). If Paris is defended correctly its not possible. Not allowing paratroopers to capture Capitals isn't the answer.

(in reply to MJY)
Post #: 5
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