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Soviets seem very over-powered

 
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Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/15/2021 10:15:19 AM   
pkloop

 

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Is it typical by early-mid 43 for the soviets to have 3000+ Mpp? I am playing a game as AXIS was doing ok. But it seems the SU just turned into an unstoppable superpower. Endless armor, aircraft, level 3 infantry etc etc etc. So I load up the game as Allies and holy smokes! How the heck did the SU get all this equipment, mpp, technology?

I am playing on normal difficulty no bonus to AI.

Is this working as designed?





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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/15/2021 11:36:59 AM   
pkloop

 

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I was shell shocked when I opened the game as Allies and saw the extent of what the SU had..the MPP alone are crazy but the shear number of armor, aircraft, research levels obtained..insane

< Message edited by pkloop -- 4/15/2021 11:38:18 AM >

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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/15/2021 12:37:26 PM   
falco148

 

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The idea is to smash the Russians around badly as Germans in '41 & '42 before they can recover to this extent.

< Message edited by falco148 -- 4/15/2021 12:39:41 PM >

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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/15/2021 2:48:40 PM   
pkloop

 

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I did. Not to the extent I have seen others but I was doing pretty good. This seems excessive. I began to notice this end of '42 kept playing then finally gave up and loaded he game as Allies. Their production of units (not just infantry) is off the charts...combined with the research..

And once level 3 infantry hits forget it. Seemingly endless piles of tanks including heavy and aircraft, research etc..gets overwhelming. How do they have the funding for all this?

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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/15/2021 6:20:25 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Hi pkloop,

The USSR can stay afloat for quite some time via the MPPs they maintain after the Industry transfer to the Urals as well as the arctic convoy help they receive from the US/UK. That and they are also able to repurchase many destroyed units at 60% of their original cost which helps.

But that being said I suspect the current bug, Soviet Corps/Army stats bug, is the biggest factor that is working against you in this game. This is currently helping them to maintain their combat strengths more effectively than they should, at least in the initial war years, and they are likely not losing as many units as they should under normal circumstances. For example, by the end of 1942 it is probably not a stretch to have seen them lose well over a 100 units when looking at the losses charts. If it is less than that in your game, and if they are not being pushed back and losing enough MPP collection resources such as cities/towns and mines etc., then this is probably having a bit of a snowball effect.

The good news is that the patch should be ready relatively soon, likely early next week if all goes well and you'll just have to start a new game from scratch to see an effective difference in your game.

Hubert

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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/15/2021 8:46:12 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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In PBEM with the Soviets at lv 5 industrial tech and closing in on Berlin (controlling all of SU +++) I don't recall ever seeing SU MPP above 2k.

edited - <2k per turn maybe the AI is a saver?

< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/15/2021 8:59:04 PM >

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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/15/2021 8:57:18 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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I just ran an AI vs AI test with the latest build on our end, e.g. the patch build, and for this same in game turn date of June 13th, 1943, the USSR has lost 139 units versus Germany which has lost 47 units. The USSR is currently sitting on just over 1100 MPP in this save as well.

Current land unit strength is 96 units for the USSR, versus 158 units for Germany.

This I would say would be a benchmark of what it should more or less look like around this time, and even with this disparity, the German AI always loses in the end and will eventually lose in this game as well once the Allies land in France and in Italy and Axis attention becomes more divided.

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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/15/2021 9:18:51 PM   
pkloop

 

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Current status when I load as Allies

Sov has 101 units with 83 losses
Collected 35280 mpp

I had taken Murmansk months back cutting that route/income. Initial drive into SU was decent but only just, then a brick wall of endless units appeared. It just seems they had an unusual ability to upgrade/research/produce and reinforce all manner of units at will. Many, many tanks...and once all the level 3 infantry hit that was all she wrote.

Like I said then when I loaded as allies and looked I was shocked. Dont know. It looks nothing like other playthroughs I have seen vs AI, though those were done awhile ago.

< Message edited by pkloop -- 4/15/2021 9:19:52 PM >

(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 8
RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/16/2021 2:27:58 AM   
Elessar2


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The tech doesn't seem all that wacky-levels 3-4 can be gotten in 3-4 years with a little luck. But he had to skimp on Ground Support and AA to do it.

(in reply to pkloop)
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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/16/2021 5:23:31 AM   
Tanaka


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Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Hi pkloop,

The USSR can stay afloat for quite some time via the MPPs they maintain after the Industry transfer to the Urals as well as the arctic convoy help they receive from the US/UK. That and they are also able to repurchase many destroyed units at 60% of their original cost which helps.

But that being said I suspect the current bug, Soviet Corps/Army stats bug, is the biggest factor that is working against you in this game. This is currently helping them to maintain their combat strengths more effectively than they should, at least in the initial war years, and they are likely not losing as many units as they should under normal circumstances. For example, by the end of 1942 it is probably not a stretch to have seen them lose well over a 100 units when looking at the losses charts. If it is less than that in your game, and if they are not being pushed back and losing enough MPP collection resources such as cities/towns and mines etc., then this is probably having a bit of a snowball effect.

The good news is that the patch should be ready relatively soon, likely early next week if all goes well and you'll just have to start a new game from scratch to see an effective difference in your game.

Hubert


Curious is this affecting WAW also or just WIE?

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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/16/2021 10:26:38 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Hi pkloop,

The USSR can stay afloat for quite some time via the MPPs they maintain after the Industry transfer to the Urals as well as the arctic convoy help they receive from the US/UK. That and they are also able to repurchase many destroyed units at 60% of their original cost which helps.

But that being said I suspect the current bug, Soviet Corps/Army stats bug, is the biggest factor that is working against you in this game. This is currently helping them to maintain their combat strengths more effectively than they should, at least in the initial war years, and they are likely not losing as many units as they should under normal circumstances. For example, by the end of 1942 it is probably not a stretch to have seen them lose well over a 100 units when looking at the losses charts. If it is less than that in your game, and if they are not being pushed back and losing enough MPP collection resources such as cities/towns and mines etc., then this is probably having a bit of a snowball effect.

The good news is that the patch should be ready relatively soon, likely early next week if all goes well and you'll just have to start a new game from scratch to see an effective difference in your game.

Hubert


Curious is this affecting WAW also or just WIE?


Just WIE, as having different base unit stats by nationality isn't used in WAW.

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RE: Soviets seem very over-powered - 4/16/2021 2:20:21 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Joined: 7/22/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pkloop

Current status when I load as Allies

Sov has 101 units with 83 losses
Collected 35280 mpp

I had taken Murmansk months back cutting that route/income. Initial drive into SU was decent but only just, then a brick wall of endless units appeared. It just seems they had an unusual ability to upgrade/research/produce and reinforce all manner of units at will. Many, many tanks...and once all the level 3 infantry hit that was all she wrote.

Like I said then when I loaded as allies and looked I was shocked. Dont know. It looks nothing like other playthroughs I have seen vs AI, though those were done awhile ago.


Thanks for the info as that definitely helps to paint a better picture. It looks like the Soviet AI tries to maintain around 100 units (if possible) around that time which is similar in your game to the AI vs AI test game I ran. After that though there is about a difference of almost 60 more Soviet units destroyed in the AI vs AI game.

That's 60 less units to purchase/re-purchase for the AI which is mostly Corps and Armies and that will add up essentially freeing the AI in your game to spend more on research, reinforcement, upgrades and more luxury items such as HQs, Tanks, Air units and so on, and with the potential for the Soviet AI to have more MPPs in the bank left over as seen in your game as well.

The key is really as Falco suggested above to destroy as many Soviet units in '41 and '42 to prevent them recovering as well as they have in your game, but as mentioned it is likely the bug is contributing to make this a bit more difficult than it otherwise normally would be.

Your next game started fresh from the patch would likely see quite a difference overall.

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