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arms production - 4/14/2021 2:50:15 PM   
borislav

 

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It is unrealistic the way troop are produced.
If you have large store of components (metal, hi-tech, machine parts, etc.) you can make huge army in just one turn...even for this future times this is impossible.

So suggestion here is to introduce more industry models, like tank factory, small arms factory, airplane factory, etc. and they based on capacity produce various components that you can store and when you need put them into action with existing system.

I believe this will bring even more depth to advanced planning and better immersion overall.

Apologies if I repeat someone idea as I could not go through all posts.
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RE: arms production - 4/14/2021 3:11:19 PM   
Clux


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While this is not a bad idea, it would make an already complex game harder, also, take in mind than turns are the representation of several months (depends on the planet) so its not like the equipment was done "from one day to another"

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Amateurs talk about strategy. Professionals talk about logistics!

(in reply to borislav)
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RE: arms production - 4/14/2021 3:14:47 PM   
zgrssd

 

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A important figure to consider, is that 1 Turn is about 2 earth Months in duration.

Recruits have about 2 months for basic training when they are first delivered to the SHQ.
Another two months to equip them and train them on equipment (you can asume they are still training until they start building Action Points and readiness on the next turn).

I agree the military equipment building is not particulary realistic - but that actually is a selling point.
I played with games that have teh model you want - like Hearts of Iron - and it is really more annoying then you think. It does not actually add a lot to the game.
I prefer this model every day of the week.

And as for needing more planning: That is actually the last thing Vic should want to do.
There is one fundamental truth of game AI: It does not plan ahead. Not even a little. There are a dozen mechanics in every game where:
- there is so little planning required, we humans might not even notice that we just did some planning
- require so much planning, no game AI has any hope of doing that properly

(in reply to borislav)
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RE: arms production - 4/14/2021 8:08:15 PM   
Snoman

 

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What you describe sounds like the way it worked in Vic's previous game, Advanced Tactics Gold. I doubt he'll suddenly change this back when he clearly made a deliberate decision to remove the sort of production system. FWIW, remember that you're using recruits and factory production generated in previous turns, it's just that you get to decide at the last minute what they were going to be used for.

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: arms production - 4/14/2021 8:17:23 PM   
borislav

 

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Well, I was not expecting such reaction(s), but there is some fair justification in what you guys are saying. It is just that from experiencing Advanced tactics gold system was just fine and I was surprised to see that Vic simplified it here considering how much other things are expanded.
I do played HOI4 and production is one of the poor parts, though initially it looks good as you have to produce all equipment you need. But what spoils concept is fact that you can use almost all your industrial potential just to make one type of tank for example which we all know is absurd.

I'm sure with time guys will ask for more sophisticated production in this game, but then as one of you said, AI will be even in bigger trouble to manage that. Present system also works so it is nothing urgent to be fixed.

(in reply to Snoman)
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RE: arms production - 4/14/2021 11:50:59 PM   
Snoman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: borislav

Well, I was not expecting such reaction(s), but there is some fair justification in what you guys are saying. It is just that from experiencing Advanced tactics gold system was just fine and I was surprised to see that Vic simplified it here considering how much other things are expanded.
I do played HOI4 and production is one of the poor parts, though initially it looks good as you have to produce all equipment you need. But what spoils concept is fact that you can use almost all your industrial potential just to make one type of tank for example which we all know is absurd.

I'm sure with time guys will ask for more sophisticated production in this game, but then as one of you said, AI will be even in bigger trouble to manage that. Present system also works so it is nothing urgent to be fixed.


I actually agree with you. I like the production system in HOI4 and ATG. I just don't think requesting a reversal on a clearly deliberate decision about the game's design is likely to go very far.

(in reply to borislav)
Post #: 6
RE: arms production - 4/28/2021 3:56:59 AM   
RogalDorn

 

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I feel like this would be better suited to a mod if resources and building creation are ever possible.
For example, a medium tank. You design it with an 88mm low velocity cannon (please rename howitzer cannons), 150mm steel armor, and a double diesel engine.
It requires 10 medium barrels (made at factory that inputs metal and ip and outputs barrels), 300 steel armor plates ((150/5)*10), and 20 diesel engines. No new mechanics required, just the ability to create new buildings and resources and change the requirements of unit requirement. If the AI can handle mechanical and high tech parts it should theoretically be able to hhandle this since it isn't any additional steps, just applying the same concept more broadly.

(in reply to Snoman)
Post #: 7
RE: arms production - 4/28/2021 8:44:35 AM   
Eretzu

 

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Honestly if units would be created part by part, I would prefer that you first design the parts and the combine them.

So for example for tank: (design includes production, just not wanting to repeat it.)
1. design chassis
2. design weapon
3. design engine (maybe engine should be part of chassis)
4. Combine to a unit

In this way, you could produce high velocity guns and then convert them directly to AT guns or fit them to a chassis to create a tank.

Similarly a chassis could be used to fit a number of weapons so that same chassis could mount AT guns, lazers, artillery or direct fire howitzers.

(in reply to RogalDorn)
Post #: 8
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