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Italian Unit Surrenders

 
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Italian Unit Surrenders - 4/13/2021 1:07:06 AM   
canuckgamer

 

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We just had something happen in our PBEM game that surprised both of us. We looked at page 73 in the manual to hopefully explain it to some degree but don't understand the Tenacity Resist Surrender Table.

Here is what happened. An Italian 26 strength motorized unit was out of supply at the beginning of it's turn but the Axis flew in some air supply. In the Allied turn, three UK units attacked it at 4-1 odds. It lost 2 strength points and retreated one hex in to a unoccupied UK controlled hex. The three UK units attacked it again at 4-1 odds and the Italian unit which at that time had 24 strength points surrendered. The general commanding the Italian motorized unit was Graziani.

We are trying to figure out why it surrendered so easily at that strength and how it relates to the table on page 73. Was it just an exceptionally "lucky die roll"

Thanks.
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RE: Italian Unit Surrenders - 4/13/2021 2:17:00 AM   
gwgardner

 

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does this help?

Generals ...
Tenacity – Affects the intensity of combat and the chance a defender
surrenders in low attacks with a less than 34% retreat chance
Assigning a high combat and mobility general to an HQ would be
a good idea when attacking. Putting a high combat, low tenacity
general would be better when delaying. And putting a high
combat, high tenacity general would be better when defending a
position you don’t want to give up. Generals with a 9 tenacity
rarely surrender.


Graziani has low tenacity? I haven't checked.

And this, was there no retreat location?

Land Retreat – The combat odds, experience, and some modifiers
determine if the defender retreats. Terrain, tanks, generals,
entrenchment, and the defender’s ant-tank gun factor modify the
base chance of retreat. High odds, 4:1, tank factors, and infiltrator
specialty increase the chance the enemy retreats. Terrain, tanks, antitank
specialty, and guns lower the retreat chance. A land unit may
retreat up to 2 hexes. They retreat to their closest friendly supply
source. If a hex is not available within one move, then a unit checks
if it can retreat 2 hexes. It may always retreat over friendly land units.
If it can’t retreat within 2 hexes, it shatters if it can trace to a supply
source or surrenders if it can’t.


< Message edited by gwgardner -- 4/13/2021 2:22:30 AM >

(in reply to canuckgamer)
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RE: Italian Unit Surrenders - 4/13/2021 3:03:17 AM   
canuckgamer

 

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Joined: 6/23/2004
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Thanks for the reply. Graziani is a 6 for tenacity so pretty good. We previously read what you quoted in your reply but the Italian motorized retreated one hex due to the first attack and then still had a retreat route when it was attacked the second time. We find the Tenacity Surrender Table confusing. If I understand it correctly a unit commanded by a general with 6 tenacity has a 90% chance of retreating if it has a retreat path when attacked at odds of 7-1 or greater.

In our example the two attacks were at 4-1, the unit had a retreat path and was commanded by a general with a tenacity rating of 6.

Maybe the fact that the UK general was Auchinleck who is a 7-7-6 increased the probability the Italian unit would surrender but we both think it was bad luck for the Italians that it did.

(in reply to gwgardner)
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RE: Italian Unit Surrenders - 4/13/2021 12:44:40 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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The heck's that was controlled by the accident probably already had combat in it and that is ineligible for a retreat hex

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(in reply to canuckgamer)
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RE: Italian Unit Surrenders - 4/14/2021 6:22:17 PM   
ncc1701e


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Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

It lost 2 strength points and retreated one hex in to a unoccupied UK controlled hex.



I don't understand this sentence. It should not be possible. The Italian unit should have shattered.
Are you sure the unoccupied hex was owned by Allies?

If so -> bug.

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