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Can't disband because scheduled to disband?!

 
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Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/12/2021 9:50:52 PM   
CapAndGown


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I have a bunch of AT brigades that I would just as soon disband because they are cluttering things up and I would like to use the equipment on more worthy formations. But I can't disband them. From what I can tell, this is because they are scheduled to disband on turn 32. Is it really the case that I can't disband a unit because it is scheduled to disband? Seriously? Tell me I am interpreting this wrong.
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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/12/2021 10:26:20 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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yes its WAD, stops ahistoric redesigns of the Soviets.

if you put them to 50% TOE in the reserve, and keep them not on refit, they will shed most of their elements & not take on any more.

actually in WiTE2 as SU (rather than on map), these are fairly useful. They can really chew up 1941 German armour if you get them into the right place af the right time

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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/12/2021 10:40:26 PM   
M60A3TTS


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The great majority of these disbands are corps HQs and some motorcycle regiments. And yes, I'm afraid the AT brigades are thrown in their too. You can manage ok, and they're actually not bad if you want to use them for face-hugging.

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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 7:09:25 AM   
CapAndGown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

yes its WAD, stops ahistoric redesigns of the Soviets.



No it doesn't. I am currently in the process of taking every Rifle and Mechanized Corps and reducing the max TOE to 50% and shipping them off to the national reserve to rot. All combat units are being subordinated directly to armies NOW, not 20 odd turns from now.

More and more I am coming to regret my purchase of this game. There seem to be many factors in favor of this version of WitE, but playability is not one of them. The air game design is just horrendous. Clicking here, there and everywhere to find info is totally out of hand. This effort to tie our hands so thoroughly to history (for instance by forcing us to keep units we don't want or by tying the victory system to historical "capture by" dates) is turning this into Gary Grisby Do It Yourself Animated War in the East. I beginning to think that I would prefer WitE1 with just the improved map.

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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 7:24:10 AM   
ast95

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown
I beginning to think that I would prefer WitE1 with just the improved map.


WITE1 is much more of railway kind. I am too don't get it why devs love so much scripted transfers and disbands, but you definetly going too far here.

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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 8:08:58 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

yes its WAD, stops ahistoric redesigns of the Soviets.



No it doesn't. I am currently in the process of taking every Rifle and Mechanized Corps and reducing the max TOE to 50% and shipping them off to the national reserve to rot. All combat units are being subordinated directly to armies NOW, not 20 odd turns from now.

...


if you do that you are going to find yourself horrendously short of command capacity, a lot of your armies come from those formations converting. See 4.11.3, 21.11.8 and 30.10,5.

as to the rest of your points, I think its been pointed out that you can eliminate the victory conditions by making your own scenario, play with full TB control and you end up very close to a sandbox game. You can even alter the reinforcement schedules to fit your own preferences


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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 8:42:15 AM   
CapAndGown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

yes its WAD, stops ahistoric redesigns of the Soviets.



No it doesn't. I am currently in the process of taking every Rifle and Mechanized Corps and reducing the max TOE to 50% and shipping them off to the national reserve to rot. All combat units are being subordinated directly to armies NOW, not 20 odd turns from now.

...


if you do that you are going to find yourself horrendously short of command capacity, a lot of your armies come from those formations converting. See 4.11.3, 21.11.8 and 30.10,5.


Since I can't disband the ones scheduled to disband and since I am simply sending every corps HQ (except for the cavalry and airborne HQ) to the reserve, I will not be losing any command capacity at the army level. Also, it is pretty clear which corps HQs convert to Army HQs.





Attachment (1)

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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 8:45:26 AM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

...
Since I can't disband the ones scheduled to disband and since I am simply sending every corps HQ (except for the cavalry and airborne HQ) to the reserve, I will not be losing any command capacity at the army level. Also, it is pretty clear which corps HQs convert to Army HQs.

...


that is neat, I've never worked out how to identify the conversions and lack the patience to record them on a sheet (or check via the editor).

but you can't rely on the withdraw function for this (if I recall how its set up) information

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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 10:28:16 AM   
Nix77

 

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Yes, the Army<=>Corps structure is a mess, so it's very historical :D


You're forgetting that the command structure is there for a reason, to make the leadership rolls easier.

Here's an example with a skill 6 Stavka and Front commanders, with variable Army/Corps commanders:

Jun'41 - Aug'41:
Corps 6 / Army 6: 88.88%
Corps 5 / Army 5: 80.31%
Direct Army 8 : 78.04%
Corps 4 / Army 6: 74.88%
Corps 4 / Army 5: 72.63%
Direct Army 7 : 70.96%
Corps 4 / Army 4: 70.38%
Corps 3 / Army 6: 67.88%
Corps 3 / Army 5: 65.13%
Direct Army 6 : 63.88%
Corps 3 / Army 4: 62.38%
Direct Army 5 : 56.79%

Sep'41 - Nov'41:
Corps 6 / Army 6: 88.88%
Direct Army 8 : 87.17%
Direct Army 7 : 81.33%
Corps 5 / Army 5: 80.31%
Direct Army 6 : 75.50%
Corps 4 / Army 6: 74.88%
Corps 4 / Army 5: 72.63%
Corps 4 / Army 4: 70.38%
Direct Army 5 : 69.67%
Corps 3 / Army 6: 67.88%
Corps 3 / Army 5: 65.13%

Dec'41 =>:
Direct Army 8 : 96.5%
Direct Army 7 : 89.5%
Direct Army 6 : 82.5%
Direct Army 5 : 75.5%

Notice that even the best Army commanders can't beat the co-operation of mediocre corps-army commanders in August.

I'm actually not sure if the corps HQs function at all in September and after that so the second list might be completely wrong. The manual is a bit vague on that detail but at least airborne corps do have an effect for sure.

I actually checked a Soviet AI save, and they seem to ditch all the corps HQs at around turn 4-6 already, seems the AI doesn't like them either!

It's not big of a deal just to set them at low ToE and throw them to Sibe... I mean Reserve at the start of the game if you don't want to use them. But they have their uses since they really boost the combat abilities of the units they're commanding, even with bad commanders.


< Message edited by Nix77 -- 4/13/2021 12:40:45 PM >

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RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 11:06:40 AM   
loki100


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Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

...

I'm actually not sure if the corps HQs function at all in September and after that so the second list might be completely wrong. The manual is a bit vague on that detail but at least airborne corps do have an effect for sure.

...



yes, all remaining corps then function as the axis table in their effect on leadership rolls etc

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Post #: 10
RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 12:42:41 PM   
Nix77

 

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

...

I'm actually not sure if the corps HQs function at all in September and after that so the second list might be completely wrong. The manual is a bit vague on that detail but at least airborne corps do have an effect for sure.

...



yes, all remaining corps then function as the axis table in their effect on leadership rolls etc


Ok that's good to know. If you endure the pain of organizing the rifle corps, you can get more bang out of those weak Soviet leaders even in late 1941.

EDIT: fixed the last Dec'41=> table, it was just plain wrong :)

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Post #: 11
RE: Can't disband because scheduled to disband?! - 4/13/2021 2:49:56 PM   
malyhin1517


Posts: 1383
Joined: 9/20/2015
From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

yes its WAD, stops ahistoric redesigns of the Soviets.



No it doesn't. I am currently in the process of taking every Rifle and Mechanized Corps and reducing the max TOE to 50% and shipping them off to the national reserve to rot. All combat units are being subordinated directly to armies NOW, not 20 odd turns from now.

More and more I am coming to regret my purchase of this game. There seem to be many factors in favor of this version of WitE, but playability is not one of them. The air game design is just horrendous. Clicking here, there and everywhere to find info is totally out of hand. This effort to tie our hands so thoroughly to history (for instance by forcing us to keep units we don't want or by tying the victory system to historical "capture by" dates) is turning this into Gary Grisby Do It Yourself Animated War in the East. I beginning to think that I would prefer WitE1 with just the improved map.

To me, too, a year ago, when I started participating in the beta test, everything seemed too complicated out of habit! I also thought, like you, that you just need to add something to WitE1 from this game. But now I got used to it and stopped playing WitE1! WITE2 has its pluses and minuses, but there are more pluses! Hopefully the WITE2 developers will also take some of WitE1!

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Sorry, i use an online translator :(

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Post #: 12
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