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Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ?

 
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Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 6:57:55 PM   
pavel01

 

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Searching for advice on how to better, more efficiently and quicker to take Palembang, I bumped into Post # 44 in this Thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1989091&mpage=2&key=ceylon%2Ccv#

Which, as some point is said :

quote:

Also if going for India I would strongly advise taking Ceylon first... That gives you an unsinkable CV with which to dominate the air and sea for a wide radius.


Why would the take of Ceylon provide the gaining of such a Ship ?

Or maybe the suggested Ship would be the Island of Ceylon itself ?

Also, I am having a hard time to find good advice on how to best take Palembang (that 900 Oil hex looks good for the Japanese...), anyone feels dropping dome good advice ?

I am just starting, 8th December.....

Thanks.

< Message edited by pavel01 -- 4/11/2021 7:04:37 PM >
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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 7:09:29 PM   
Shellshock


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01


Why would the take of Ceylon provide the gaining of such a Ship ?





It was probably meant as a metaphor. It gives you an unsinkable platform that can't move called an island. During the Battle of Midway, the atoll of Midways was often referred to as an unsinkable CV. In Europe, Mussolini like to claim Italy was an unsinkable carrier in the Mediterranean.

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 8:05:48 PM   
fcooke

 

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And the most famous 'unsinkable' island in WW2 was the UK. If you want entertainment value you can google the ice and sawdust CVs that the UK considered building during the war. For a normally reserved population - no offence meant, lived there for 7 years, came up with some interesting stuff. The 'funnies', the Mulberries, etc.

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 8:16:58 PM   
Shellshock


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And the most famous 'unsinkable' island in WW2 was the UK. If you want entertainment value you can google the ice and sawdust CVs that the UK considered building during the war.


Yet, an idea that always had a certain veneer of plausibility.






Attachment (1)

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 8:23:36 PM   
HansBolter


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 9:07:16 PM   
pavel01

 

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Thanks, yeah, I realized that it was a metaphor just after posting....

As in regards to taking Palembang as soon as possible, I found with Post # 12 in this Thread https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3139884&mpage=1&key=palembang# , the suggestion to take Sinkawang since Oosthaven, not sure why, seems to be difficult to be used as a Port... and can be used as a base to bomb Palembang as well asto control the northern Java Sea and also makes Batavia more difficult to be used as an operational Base for the Allies. The taking of Muntok would also help to isolate Palembang I guess to reduce its Assault Value ?

Yet, this suggestion would require the Bombing of Palembang which could damage its Oil Center....

Another alternate suggestion that I found in Post # 82 in this Thread https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1989091&mpage=3&key=palembang# , follows a different approach to "spare" the bombing of Palembang, so as not to damage the Oil supplies there...

If I understood it correctly, this other approach implies a Landing with 3 to 6 construction corpses and a BF (Base Force) at Toboali. The Airfield is only a 0(1), and this is why the need for those construction forces, I imagine, but the good is that Toboali comes with its own Resource Center of 270...

AFter upgrading the Airfield to 1, it is then possible to Long Range CAP Palembang since it is 2 hexes away as well as Merak which is 3 hexes away.

Additionally, if the Toboali Airfield is taken to a Size 2, then also Batavia at 3 hexes away is reachable.
Using Kuching with some Nellies and Zeros stationed there, while building up the Airfield in Toboali, could help reduce Allies interfering with the contruction....

If I understood it correctly, this Post indicates as a valid strategy, that to "isolate" Palembang and to bomb the ground units there, to damage the engineers and thus reduce the resistance of the troops in Palembang but without much hurting the Oil Center to get damaged....

At that point, as I understand it, as the Northern part of Java is captured, Soerabaja Airfield should be bombed so as to close it down, and thus stop the Allies to be able to base their B-17s there to then bomb Palembang and damage its Oil Center...

Now, of course, if possible, I'd much prefer to take Palembang without hurting its Oil Center much... but I am unsure whether this strategy might be viable without taking Singapore as first...

Is it a "must", before even considering starting any approach to the take Palembang, that Singapore was to be taken as first ?

Or is there any other more advisable Strategy for a better and faster taking of Palembang without hurting much its Oil Center ?

The reason that I would like to take Palembang very early, is to avoid it being strenghtened too much and, thus, become a nightmare to be taken later on...

Could Paratroops be of any help here ?

Thanks for the help !

< Message edited by pavel01 -- 4/11/2021 9:35:08 PM >

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 9:35:14 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And the most famous 'unsinkable' island in WW2 was the UK. If you want entertainment value you can google the ice and sawdust CVs that the UK considered building during the war. For a normally reserved population - no offence meant, lived there for 7 years, came up with some interesting stuff. The 'funnies', the Mulberries, etc.

They experimented with building ships with concrete hulls in Canada. Some of the experiments are at the bottom of Lake Okanagan, in the interior of BC.

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 10:59:19 PM   
fcooke

 

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You just want to keep re-inforcements from getting to Palembang. And then hit it hard. No need to capture Singers first. Early in the game the Allies have almost nothing that can hurt you (except those pesky old British CLs), and the biplane torp bombers. Or if POW and Repulse have survived. Or the dreaded Boise.

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 11:12:21 PM   
pavel01

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

You just want to keep re-inforcements from getting to Palembang. And then hit it hard. No need to capture Singers first. Early in the game the Allies have almost nothing that can hurt you (except those pesky old British CLs), and the biplane torp bombers. Or if POW and Repulse have survived. Or the dreaded Boise.



To my luck, both the Prince of Wales and the Repulse have been sunk on the 7th....

So, how would you organize the taking of Palembang without damaging much its Oil Centers ?

I have not yet taken Singapore (it is only the 8th).... when would I want to make Landfall at in order to then surround Palembang and block it from getting reinforcements ?

Also, I need an airfield in the region or my ground forces, once I will land them and move them around Palembang would be hammered by Allied Airplanes...

Any suggestion on what (and how many) forces I should bring, and with how many Engineers and Armored Vehicles ? I guess I will also need a supply line to keep my invasion force well fed and armed...

Or should I first take Singapore ?

But I would rather get those Oil Centers in Palembang as soon as I can.... it would help enormously to have such a supply in that Region....

< Message edited by pavel01 -- 4/11/2021 11:13:00 PM >

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/11/2021 11:55:12 PM   
fcooke

 

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There's a lightly defended base on the northwest corner of Borneo that makes a nice Nettie base. And once you have Netties there not much in the way of re-inforcements are getting in. Just make sure they have fighter escort. I once punished a player when he got too comfy sending 100 Nettie raids in and I met them with every single Dutch fighter. Lot of aces made that day.

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/12/2021 3:16:22 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

and the biplane torp bombers.


The British 'String Bags' tend to be just as deadly as Japanese 'Netties' if you come into torp range.

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/12/2021 10:02:09 AM   
Sardaukar


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Getting to Palembang first might work unless enemy has concentrated torpedo bombers into Singapore. Than it might get costly.

But from start Palembang is lightly defended.

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/12/2021 12:07:22 PM   
Yaab


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Taking Ceylon tea gives an unsinkable CVP ?

< Message edited by Yaab -- 4/12/2021 12:13:55 PM >

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/12/2021 12:13:22 PM   
Yaab


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk


- Habakkuk, meet Sonnengewehr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_gun

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/12/2021 12:21:11 PM   
Dutch_slith


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quote:

So, how would you organize the taking of Palembang without damaging much its Oil Centers ?


Ground Attack by air, then one and only one deliberate attack by LCU.

But, it is up to the dice roll. Once I took it from the AI (only one engineer unit as garrison) and got 50% damaged. The other time (PBEM) it was defended by 3 divisions and multiple engineer units. I attacked with 9 crack divisions, after intensive ground bombing, damage less then 5%.

That's the reason I'll never would do a Fortress Palembang. A few minor engineer units, a carless attacker and wham, 50% damage.

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RE: Taking Ceylon gives an unsinkable CV ? - 4/14/2021 11:04:33 PM   
grond69

 

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Not sure where you are with this now, but I thought I could clear up a few items. First, you can bomb the airfield and troops in Palembang as long as you want with the entire Japanese airforce and never damage the oil centers. They only get damaged from air attack when specifically targeted (from city bombing menu). Bombarding with ships is rolling the dice. No control. Also, when you siege and take it, damage can occur. I am not sure if you can mitigate the damage by the means with which you attack. I have taken it and had zero oil center damage, but also had over 50% damage. I have read lots of differing opinions around this, but I think there is a die roll hard coded into the game.

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