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Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning Page: [1]
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Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning


Yes - include as is.
  44% (32)
Yes - but just the triangle (I've read the manual!).
  30% (22)
No - but do post in the modding area.
  25% (18)


Total Votes : 72


(last vote on : 4/20/2021 8:30:39 PM)
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Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 7:03:51 PM   
RedLancer


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One of the huge advantages with a tile based map is we can quickly make improvements and amendments.

The screenshot shows some added info that loki100 and I thought you may appreciate to warn Axis players of how far they can go on GC41 T1 without activating the Soviet Southern Front.

It may not be for all so please vote on whether you like it and we do add it to a future release.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RedLancer -- 4/10/2021 7:04:46 PM >


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RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 7:51:27 PM   
King-Salomon

 

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would it be possible to make it so that the tiles convert back to how they are now after T1?

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RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 8:11:37 PM   
RedLancer


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No - most data embeds at the very start of a scenario so later data changes aren't possible. You could rename/delete the triangle art which would stop it appearing.

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RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 8:22:13 PM   
malyhin1517


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Is it better to make a triangle in the middle of the hex? Then it will be clearer which hex cannot be crossed! In principle, the inscription is not required, but it will be useful for beginners!

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Post #: 4
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 8:43:38 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

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Why Southern Front should be frozen ever, what a reason for it? There are actions started already right from 22 June. So why Soviet side can't regroup units for better positioning?
Also, is it possible to redone forming Southern Front HQ? Because Odessa M.D. was reformed to 9th Army HQ and Southern Front HQ it was formed in Moscow and moved via the railroad to the area to Vinnitsa.

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RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 10:52:01 PM   
Bamilus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

Why Southern Front should be frozen ever, what a reason for it? There are actions started already right from 22 June. So why Soviet side can't regroup units for better positioning?
Also, is it possible to redone forming Southern Front HQ? Because Odessa M.D. was reformed to 9th Army HQ and Southern Front HQ it was formed in Moscow and moved via the railroad to the area to Vinnitsa.


Probably for balancing reasons and also to represent catching Soviets off-guard. The T1 is now longer than it was in WITE.

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RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 11:43:01 PM   
56ajax


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quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

Is it better to make a triangle in the middle of the hex? Then it will be clearer which hex cannot be crossed! In principle, the inscription is not required, but it will be useful for beginners!

Excellent. Triangle or is it an arrow pointing to the hex below. Regardless good idea.

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Post #: 7
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 12:04:15 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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I brought this up during BETA about putting a picture of the affected hexes in the manual, but oh well. But maybe something better can come to fruition ;-)

To me the triangle is just a triangle. Unless you put the page number or rule number with it I bet many will keep on trucking or hit a hex that will release Southern front. Do you know which hexes will or will not release on the border for that rule? Thus to me the triangle really doesn't show which part you should or should not venture into. I did test in BETA to find out which you can and can't. Having that annotated on the map is the best way to do it. You should have slightly highlighted hexes pop up with "ALERT entry releases the Southern Front". Of course something shorter but you get the idea. The same principal that is already in the game if a minor neutral going north can't cross area that darkens for no entry. After the first turn I am sure this can be programmed to turn off. This should give a nice helping hand to all that use it.

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 8
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 2:05:12 AM   
smokindave34


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Just so I make sure I understand the rule.......if you want to keep the Southern Front locked you can't go south AND east of the hex in question? So if I go east of that hex but stay north the Southern front stays locked?

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 9
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 2:29:28 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Just so I make sure I understand the rule.......if you want to keep the Southern Front locked you can't go south AND east of the hex in question? So if I go east of that hex but stay north the Southern front stays locked?


Correct.

Be careful of the South hexes & half hexes. They alternate. Also Remember a ZoC over that line will trip the effects. At least it did in my test in BETA

(in reply to smokindave34)
Post #: 10
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 3:06:04 AM   
Beethoven1

 

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This is good. Another thing that might be helpful is a demarcation of the north-south boundary for where the "north" special movement bonuses apply/don't apply (somewhere south of Brest-Litovsk). That would probably only be needed as a line for a small amount of the border area (doesn't have to extend all the way to the urals :D ).


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Post #: 11
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 3:55:16 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

This is good. Another thing that might be helpful is a demarcation of the north-south boundary for where the "north" special movement bonuses apply/don't apply (somewhere south of Brest-Litovsk). That would probably only be needed as a line for a small amount of the border area (doesn't have to extend all the way to the urals :D ).




Ya, good point!!!!!! That thing kicked my azz in BETA. I didn't read the manual and was all f'd up on what was happening there!

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Post #: 12
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 7:55:15 AM   
sven6345789

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

Why Southern Front should be frozen ever, what a reason for it? There are actions started already right from 22 June. So why Soviet side can't regroup units for better positioning?
Also, is it possible to redone forming Southern Front HQ? Because Odessa M.D. was reformed to 9th Army HQ and Southern Front HQ it was formed in Moscow and moved via the railroad to the area to Vinnitsa.


Historically, the Attack from Romania started later than the attack from Poland. The Axis forces in Romania are also frozen turn 1.

If however Army Group South is very successful in its initial attacks Southern Front will activate earlier.

so, balancing reasons.


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Post #: 13
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 8:38:36 AM   
AlessandroD


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No for me because it would be a one shot info and no more relevant after T1, a modded map should work for everyone.

I would like to see a clarification in the manual instead, if what HLYA said in the previous post is correct:


quote:

"Just so I make sure I understand the rule.......if you want to keep the Southern Front locked you can't go south AND east of the hex in question? So if I go east of that hex but stay north the Southern front stays locked?


Correct.

Be careful of the South hexes & half hexes. They alternate. Also Remember a ZoC over that line will trip the effects. At least it did in my test in BETA"



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Post #: 14
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 9:20:42 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10392
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

This is good. Another thing that might be helpful is a demarcation of the north-south boundary for where the "north" special movement bonuses apply/don't apply (somewhere south of Brest-Litovsk). That would probably only be needed as a line for a small amount of the border area (doesn't have to extend all the way to the urals :D ).




do you mean the image in 11.2.2, that sets out exactly where that border is?






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 15
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 10:13:57 AM   
speedyglides

 

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A smaller slightly less salient triangle could be better, as you will look for it when relevant in T1 but it will not be useful for the rest of the game.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 16
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 12:07:33 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2038
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
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11.2.5. Unlocking the Soviet Southern
Front
If a Soviet national hex south or east of 187,187

Shouldn't that read "South 'and' East"?
As it's written any hex East of 187 will trigger the Southern front.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 17
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 3:51:11 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

do you mean the image in 11.2.2, that sets out exactly where that border is?





Yes, in my case I vaguely remember seeing that in the manual, but when I was later actually playing I didn't remember exactly where the dividing line was. It is quite clear in the manual, but ideally it would be nice to not have to keep looking it up in the manual. IMO something like that line, but extending just a small amount in, with some small text like "T1 Movement Line" could perhaps be helpful as a reminder.

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Post #: 18
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 9:49:36 PM   
mikael333

 

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I would put this feature behind one of the map options.

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Post #: 19
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 2:01:29 AM   
Sigwolfe


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I would like it if it could disappear after turn 1. If it's going to be there all game it should be much more subtle, and not just reducing it to the triangle. It should be reduced to a partially transparent image, at the least.
I don't think a t1 trigger point should be the most prominent feature on the map.

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Post #: 20
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 5:30:30 AM   
Hardradi


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Looks good to me.

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Post #: 21
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 5:33:52 AM   
Nix77

 

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I'd definitely like to have it on only in some filtered map mode. Maybe capture date filter would be a proper match?

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Post #: 22
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 8:12:26 AM   
Rexzapper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

I'd definitely like to have it on only in some filtered map mode. Maybe capture date filter would be a proper match?


Yes!!!!! That it appears in some filtered map mode (in the "capture date filter", for example) is a very good suggestion ... and also the line of 11.2.2.

(in reply to Nix77)
Post #: 23
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 12:03:01 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 420
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus
Probably for balancing reasons and also to represent catching Soviets off-guard. The T1 is now longer than it was in WITE.

What do you mean "catching Soviets off-guard" if we talking about Southern Front non on T1? Divisions of 9th Army moved to the border and had time to take defense positions. The main problems there was that they should covers too extended front so density of the defense in this area was insufficient. And second thing was that Southern Front commander Tyulenev overestimated the strength of the enemy and he decided to withdrow to defense position on "old border" there was fort lines.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789
Historically, the Attack from Romania started later than the attack from Poland. The Axis forces in Romania are also frozen turn 1.

Attack from Romania started 22 June, at least "air-phase", we can argue how active was ground part. So Romania and USSR from 22 June was at war.
Now, if we look on the game map we can see how many hexes between Soviet divisions on Prut river, in some areas its up to 7 hexes. I'm not talking about that between Soviet divisions should not be any gap but the current status its too much.

For unknown reasons Soviet divisions in the game can't be breakdown to regiments like Germans, Finnish and now even Romanian divisions has such option. So Soviet units in the game can't be more normally positioned there. And Soviet side forced to wait in this silly position when 11th German Army will start their attack.


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RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 12:53:19 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 972
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus
Probably for balancing reasons and also to represent catching Soviets off-guard. The T1 is now longer than it was in WITE.

What do you mean "catching Soviets off-guard" if we talking about Southern Front non on T1? Divisions of 9th Army moved to the border and had time to take defense positions. The main problems there was that they should covers too extended front so density of the defense in this area was insufficient. And second thing was that Southern Front commander Tyulenev overestimated the strength of the enemy and he decided to withdrow to defense position on "old border" there was fort lines.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789
Historically, the Attack from Romania started later than the attack from Poland. The Axis forces in Romania are also frozen turn 1.

Attack from Romania started 22 June, at least "air-phase", we can argue how active was ground part. So Romania and USSR from 22 June was at war.
Now, if we look on the game map we can see how many hexes between Soviet divisions on Prut river, in some areas its up to 7 hexes. I'm not talking about that between Soviet divisions should not be any gap but the current status its too much.

For unknown reasons Soviet divisions in the game can't be breakdown to regiments like Germans, Finnish and now even Romanian divisions has such option. So Soviet units in the game can't be more normally positioned there. And Soviet side forced to wait in this silly position when 11th German Army will start their attack.



Not gonna argue with you, man. Like I said, it was for balancing issues to de-Peltonize the game. Judging by your join date you missed the majority of the Pelton saga, so this won't mean much to you, but that's the reason why. There's 0% chance the devs will change this because they don't want a repeat of the cookie cutter AGS openings from WITE1.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/12/2021 12:54:14 PM >


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Post #: 25
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 1:01:19 PM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Just so I make sure I understand the rule.......if you want to keep the Southern Front locked you can't go south AND east of the hex in question? So if I go east of that hex but stay north the Southern front stays locked?

Exactly, I posted this earlier, the manual says it wrong.

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Post #: 26
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