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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up????

 
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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/11/2021 1:45:11 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2228
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DESRON420

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

My PERSONAL estimation of the situation is...


It's just Ukraine. There is no article. Ukraine.


Yup, and that's why they were granted full membership. Georgia as well...

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to DESRON420)
Post #: 91
RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/11/2021 3:58:38 PM   
RoryAndersonCDT


Posts: 1801
Joined: 6/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude


quote:

ORIGINAL: DESRON420

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

My PERSONAL estimation of the situation is...


It's just Ukraine. There is no article. Ukraine.


Yup, and that's why they were granted full membership. Georgia as well...


This is an interesting miscommunication, DESRON420 is objecting to the use of "the Ukraine" rather than "Ukraine". The article he is referring to is the word "the".
However you are interpreting it as referring to the articles in the North Atlantic treaty, eg Article 5.

I only mention this because I thought this was a neat example of miscommunication, because interpreting DESRON420's post as referring to Article 5 actually is quite a valid interpretation.





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(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 92
RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/11/2021 6:23:09 PM   
Scorpion86

 

Posts: 220
Joined: 2/26/2017
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Yeah, Ukrainians get annoyed when their country is referred to "the Ukraine".
"Ukraine" means "borderlands". The land was so named because it was the border between Russia and the rest of Europe. So, in Russian, when you say you're in a place that has a name (a city, a country, for instance), you say "v Sankt Petersburgye", "v Parisye", "v Londonye". But when you are in open spaces, you use the article "na". When Russians speak about Ukraine, they say they are "na Ukrayinye", in the borderlands, implying it is not a country, just a space. That use was translated into english as "the Ukraine" from the russian. Ukrainians prefer people to use just "Ukraine" instead.
That's what I gathered from talking to Ukrainian friends and from my 1 year of trying to learn Russian.
Also, Kyiv, not Kiev, is the proper name.
*flies away*

(in reply to RoryAndersonCDT)
Post #: 93
RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/13/2021 12:39:38 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2228
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scorpion86

Yeah, Ukrainians get annoyed when their country is referred to "the Ukraine".
"Ukraine" means "borderlands". The land was so named because it was the border between Russia and the rest of Europe. So, in Russian, when you say you're in a place that has a name (a city, a country, for instance), you say "v Sankt Petersburgye", "v Parisye", "v Londonye". But when you are in open spaces, you use the article "na". When Russians speak about Ukraine, they say they are "na Ukrayinye", in the borderlands, implying it is not a country, just a space. That use was translated into english as "the Ukraine" from the russian. Ukrainians prefer people to use just "Ukraine" instead.
That's what I gathered from talking to Ukrainian friends and from my 1 year of trying to learn Russian.
Also, Kyiv, not Kiev, is the proper name.
*flies away*


Interesting. So when I was in Lebanon I was corrected by Lebanese (multiple times) to call it "The Lebanon." Different cultures...


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Scorpion86)
Post #: 94
RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/13/2021 1:45:31 PM   
maverick3320

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 2/14/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scorpion86

Yeah, Ukrainians get annoyed when their country is referred to "the Ukraine".
"Ukraine" means "borderlands". The land was so named because it was the border between Russia and the rest of Europe. So, in Russian, when you say you're in a place that has a name (a city, a country, for instance), you say "v Sankt Petersburgye", "v Parisye", "v Londonye". But when you are in open spaces, you use the article "na". When Russians speak about Ukraine, they say they are "na Ukrayinye", in the borderlands, implying it is not a country, just a space. That use was translated into english as "the Ukraine" from the russian. Ukrainians prefer people to use just "Ukraine" instead.
That's what I gathered from talking to Ukrainian friends and from my 1 year of trying to learn Russian.
Also, Kyiv, not Kiev, is the proper name.
*flies away*


Interesting. So when I was in Lebanon I was corrected by Lebanese (multiple times) to call it "The Lebanon." Different cultures...



And closer to home, people in Ohio demand that the state's flagship university be referred to as "THE Ohio State University"...

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 95
RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 5/13/2021 10:18:33 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2228
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

And closer to home, people in Ohio demand that the state's flagship university be referred to as "THE Ohio State University"...


Well I did graduate from "THE Florida State University" myself.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to maverick3320)
Post #: 96
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