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Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/4/2021 2:32:26 PM   
BeirutDude


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Was was thinking about doing a simple scenario there and Putin seems to want a larger one. On Twitter there are bridging units moving up along with S-400 Regts, so this doesn't look like a little incursion. Maybe all the way to the Dnieper?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56616778

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/4/2021 2:40:14 PM >


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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/4/2021 10:37:47 PM   
kevinkins


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Very complicated to figure out how this new Russian mobilization will play out. But the idea of designing a smaller type scenario quickly would generate a lot of interest. Many are following the developments.

Kevin

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 12:15:27 AM   
BeirutDude


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I was thinking of Ukrainian Su-27s defending their airbase against a Russian attack. There is a base South of Kyiv that looks like good candidate.

Alternatively, I was thinking, Russian airstrikes on Ukrainian bases.

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 12:26:31 AM   
kevinkins


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Good ideas. I was thinking of adding in some AFVs as targets for both sides. Might be interesting to play around with. PM me and we could work together on a nice scenario. Thanks.

Kevin

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 12:48:31 AM   
Scorpion86

 

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An idea I lifted from this Binkov's Battlegrounds video:

Russian troops are preparing to cross the Dnieper. Your objective is to bomb dams across the Dnieper in order to stop the crossing. BUT, if you wait untill Russian troops are inside a certain area, the flood from the destroyed dams will wash away the invading troops... But of course, the Russians aren't going to make it easy for you...

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 2:33:02 AM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

the flood from the destroyed dams will wash away the invading troops


Not to quibble but I believe that would be in violation of the Geneva Convention (Vol II, Chap 14 Sec C) - release of natural forces

Rule 45. The use of methods or means of warfare that are intended, or may be expected, to cause widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment is prohibited. Destruction of the natural environment may not be used as a weapon.

I do not believe NATO would conduct such an attack.

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 6:37:59 AM   
Filitch


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JIC
Ukrainian military traffic










Attachment (3)

< Message edited by Filitch -- 4/5/2021 6:38:38 AM >

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 6:39:20 AM   
Filitch


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US AF traffic








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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 11:21:32 AM   
BeirutDude


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Certainly both sides are mobilizing but I mean, seriously, does anybody think that the Ukrainians have a chance against Russia?

I think the real question is what’s the best bad outcome ?????

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I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 11:26:34 AM   
BeirutDude


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

Good ideas. I was thinking of adding in some AFVs as targets for both sides. Might be interesting to play around with. PM me and we could work together on a nice scenario. Thanks.

Kevin


It would be a bit, at least a few days, before I could get to this, interesting idea!

Wish ground units could dig in/fortify.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/5/2021 11:27:40 AM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to kevinkins)
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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 12:59:13 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

Certainly both sides are mobilizing but I mean, seriously, does anybody think that the Ukrainians have a chance against Russia?

I think the real question is what’s the best bad outcome ?????


I really don't believe it will come to that.

Best outcome for Russia is that everyone in the west focuses on the Ukraine while it does whatever it wants domestically and/or in Europe.

Best outcome for NATO and the west is to stay focused and stop trying to expand into Russia's back yard

Best outcome for Ukraine... not sure there is one.

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/5/2021 1:26:52 PM   
thewood1

 

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If you want to simulate the potential ground war. Do it in Combat Mission or Steel Beasts. Both are capable and CM focused specifically on the Ukraine vs. Russia conflict.

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/6/2021 1:51:52 AM   
Scorpion86

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

quote:

the flood from the destroyed dams will wash away the invading troops


Not to quibble but I believe that would be in violation of the Geneva Convention (Vol II, Chap 14 Sec C) - release of natural forces

Rule 45. The use of methods or means of warfare that are intended, or may be expected, to cause widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment is prohibited. Destruction of the natural environment may not be used as a weapon.

I do not believe NATO would conduct such an attack.


From the Rules As Written, it seems more of a prohibition against using ecologically damaging weapons like dirty bombs or such...

In any case, even if it is so, I am certain a desperate Ukrainian government, faced with the annexation and de facto colonization of their country, would'nt be concerned with matters of international law when national survival is at stake.

< Message edited by Scorpion86 -- 4/6/2021 1:53:14 AM >

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/6/2021 1:58:20 AM   
Scorpion86

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Certainly both sides are mobilizing but I mean, seriously, does anybody think that the Ukrainians have a chance against Russia?

I think the real question is what’s the best bad outcome ?????


I think the Ukrainian strategy would be to slow down the Russians enough and make it bloody enough to give time for other powers to intervene. Otherwise Russia would just present Nato and the EU with a fait accompli and a tame new Ukrainian government before they withdraw.

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/6/2021 6:12:31 AM   
Filitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scorpion86
In any case, even if it is so, I am certain a desperate Ukrainian government, faced with the annexation and de facto colonization of their country, would'nt be concerned with matters of international law when national survival is at stake.


Looks like you wrong understand reasons of the current crisis. Sure it is not a wish of Russia to seize Ukraine. The flame of war is ignited from the other side, and this is not only side of the border, but another side of the ocean coast. And reason is - Nord Stream 2.

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/6/2021 8:31:01 AM   
guanotwozero

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Filitch
Looks like you wrong understand reasons of the current crisis. Sure it is not a wish of Russia to seize Ukraine. The flame of war is ignited from the other side, and this is not only side of the border, but another side of the ocean coast. And reason is - Nord Stream 2.

Do you think Russia will return Crimea to Ukraine?

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/6/2021 11:24:23 AM   
DESRON420

 

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Folks, many very fine people are saying we have to make Novgorod great again. Strong boyars are coming up to me with tears in their eyes saying reconvene the Veche

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/6/2021 1:53:41 PM   
maverick3320

 

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I'm curious what you mean by "the flame of war is ignited from the other side". Should we take that to mean that NATO caused the invasion of Ukraine?

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/6/2021 10:57:33 PM   
BeirutDude


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OH NO, lets not blow up another thread with snipping at each other. How about we pass any information we have for the good of everyone and keep from blaming one side or the other. We need to recognize there are people on these forums from all over the world and your political views likely don't match theirs.

My suggestion is if you want to fight politics/who's right or wrong there is a place for that Twitter!

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/6/2021 10:58:25 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/7/2021 7:44:38 AM   
RoryAndersonCDT


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

OH NO, lets not blow up another thread with snipping at each other. How about we pass any information we have for the good of everyone and keep from blaming one side or the other. We need to recognize there are people on these forums from all over the world and your political views likely don't match theirs.

My suggestion is if you want to fight politics/who's right or wrong there is a place for that Twitter!


100% agree.

Everyone, please avoid making discussing geopolitics personal.

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/11/2021 4:46:51 PM   
BeirutDude


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Ukraine Air Force/ADA system is defined. Assumptions...

I moved one Buk Regt from the SW Ukraine, just didn't make sense they would stay there when there is a hole in teh ADA defense near Crimea and it is up against NATO Territory and that none would move into the Donbass.

I assumed that Ukraine Air Force "Brigades" are at "Squadron" Level, there aren't enough aircraft to equip the "brigades" at two-three 12 plane squadrons.

Ukraine Army ADA Regts are equipped with SA-12s.

Ukraine AF has only 2-3 of each loadout at each base for it's normal aircraft. Did forward deploy one squadron from SW Ukraine.

All of the S300PS Regts/Brigades radars are equipped with SA-10B Radars.

Army aviation would be used in Donbass and I'm not modeling it.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/11/2021 4:48:15 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/11/2021 6:43:56 PM   
edsw


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Greetings, there is an S-300 in Kharkov

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/11/2021 11:44:00 PM   
BeirutDude


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Do you know which unit, because, as far as I know, all are accounted for.

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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
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I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to edsw)
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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/12/2021 11:48:18 AM   
edsw


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In Kharkov, the Air Defense Academy, in which there is an S-300, plus because Kharkov is the second largest city in Ukraine, so it is covered by the 208th anti-aircraft missile brigade with the S-300 battalion (from 6 to 12 launchers, I don't know for sure) ...
uptdate. I beg your pardon, I confused it with Kherson, in Kharkov only the training unit with the S-300PS

< Message edited by edsw -- 4/12/2021 11:54:50 AM >


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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/12/2021 11:49:17 AM   
edsw


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Model S-300PS

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/14/2021 9:32:09 PM   
BeirutDude


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quote:

ORIGINAL: edsw

In Kharkov, the Air Defense Academy, in which there is an S-300, plus because Kharkov is the second largest city in Ukraine, so it is covered by the 208th anti-aircraft missile brigade with the S-300 battalion (from 6 to 12 launchers, I don't know for sure) ...
uptdate. I beg your pardon, I confused it with Kherson, in Kharkov only the training unit with the S-300PS


TY! My info has that brigade elsewhere but think you would know better! That said, I have found the Army's 1039th Anti-aircraft Missile Artillery Regiment is to the SW of Kharkov and I haven't modeled them (the on I left out) so will just number an S300PS unit as the 1039th near there.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/14/2021 9:38:31 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/14/2021 11:03:18 PM   
maverick3320

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

OH NO, lets not blow up another thread with snipping at each other. How about we pass any information we have for the good of everyone and keep from blaming one side or the other. We need to recognize there are people on these forums from all over the world and your political views likely don't match theirs.

My suggestion is if you want to fight politics/who's right or wrong there is a place for that Twitter!


My apologies. My interest wasn't political, it was purely genuine - as it would be for someone who believed the world was flat, Modern Monetary Theory, or that the moon landing was faked.

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/14/2021 11:25:37 PM   
BDukes

 

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The moon landing was faked? Fudge. That's where all the keys for the bitcoin I bought was stored.

Mike

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/15/2021 8:44:35 PM   
kevinkins


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Normally would not post something from the NY Post unless sport related. However, if true - pretty significant.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/15/putin-closes-off-access-to-black-sea-after-biden-blinks/

More:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9474725/Biden-hits-Putin-sanctions-retaliation-election-interference-cyber-attacks-Ukraine.html

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RE: Donbass Conflict heating up???? - 4/15/2021 9:07:43 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Interesting yes but the Sea of Azov is the area effected by this, and I don't think US warships (or many other for that matter) would venture into it. According to Wiki the average depth is between 0.9 and 14 Meters. Now I understand that Wiki isn't a naval chart but the draft of a DDG-51 is 9.3 Meters

I really doubt that a US destroyer would venture into waters that shallow and that provocatively anyway.

Annoyingly both reports headlines are inflating the impacts, one claiming the Black Sea is blocked [which is untrue] and another claiming access to the Ukraine is blocked [which is also untrue]. The text clarifies this, sort of but the bi-lines are just plain wrong.

< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 4/15/2021 9:10:53 PM >


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