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Why hasn't this TF loaded up ?

 
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Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/1/2021 6:52:58 PM   
clamel

 

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So sorry if this might be clear to vets of the game, but I'm still a newbie and following Kulls spreadsheet to get going.

In that spreadsheet this TF was formed in LA and ordered to dock and load resources. As seen I have done so on the first turn in the 8th Dec scenario. LA had resoources of 16000 at that point.
Next turn I check the TFs going out of LA. The resource in the city is down to a couple of hundreds for information.
However the TF looks to me as sailing away to Pearl EMPTY.

Probably a simple reason, but at this moment I am thinking something went wrong and contemplating to order it back to LA to once more load resources (that isn't there for the moment)

Any help is apppreciated on this






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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/1/2021 6:54:41 PM   
clamel

 

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Not sure how to put more than one picture so here are the one with the TF sailing away





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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/1/2021 7:10:17 PM   
Nomad

 

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There were no resources at LA that were available to load.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 4/1/2021 8:11:37 PM >


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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/1/2021 7:10:22 PM   
BBfanboy


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LA had 16K resources at game start but when the turn ran the HI and LI and possibly demand from other bases with industry used it all up.
There being no resources to load, the TF left for its destination.

There is no good reason to haul resources from LA to PH. PH needs more supply, and it is far more efficient to ship supply than to ship resources. It takes 15 resources to make one supply point, so your TF would be hauling 1/15th of what it could deliver.

Use a small xAKL to haul resources from Hilo to PH.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/1/2021 7:27:28 PM   
jdsrae


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You have “Unload Cargo” set.
The TF probably loaded, then unloaded, then started to move.
Send it back and set that toggle to “Do not Unload” and try it again.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/1/2021 7:30:31 PM   
Yaab


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The only good place to load resources in CONUSA is Tacoma. It has 12,000 res surplus each turn in scen001.

Coos Bay has a 6500 res surplus, but a very slow loading rate.

And if you ever want to ship resources from Australia the only good place to do it is Sale.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 4/1/2021 7:34:19 PM >

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/1/2021 9:21:02 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

You have “Unload Cargo” set.
The TF probably loaded, then unloaded, then started to move.
Send it back and set that toggle to “Do not Unload” and try it again.

That is not the problem. He had a destination set and TF normally are set to Unload Cargo so they will do so at destination. If no destination is set, Do Not Unload is important.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/1/2021 9:33:30 PM   
RangerJoe


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Haul supplies back from Noumea after delivering supplies and troops.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 3:46:31 AM   
Kull


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Yes, LA will consume all the resources sitting in the pool, every turn. However, if you turn off Heavy Industry for a week or so, you'll be awash in resources and can ship them wherever. Bottom line, the Allies will never notice the difference, and you'll be able to use LA as an occasional source of resources from then on. Technically that's "penny wise and pound foolish", but in this case you can ignore the statisticians.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 4:51:35 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Haul supplies back from Noumea after delivering supplies and troops.

I think you mean resources from Noumea. Suva is another place that has some resources it can't use.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 4:56:38 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Haul supplies back from Noumea after delivering supplies and troops.

I think you mean resources from Noumea. Suva is another place that has some resources it can't use.


Yes, resources not supplies. That is the problem with insufficient coffee in the system. The brain thinks one word but another word is typed.

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“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 4:58:26 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Yes, LA will consume all the resources sitting in the pool, every turn. However, if you turn off Heavy Industry for a week or so, you'll be awash in resources and can ship them wherever. Bottom line, the Allies will never notice the difference, and you'll be able to use LA as an occasional source of resources from then on. Technically that's "penny wise and pound foolish", but in this case you can ignore the statisticians.

Eventually the Allies are swimming in both resources and supply, but in the first 3 months of the game there is not enough supply nor shipping to get it everywhere it is needed. The only reason the WC USA accumulates so much supply in the first few weeks is that the few ships there at game start have departed on mission and the mass of ships scattered all over the map have not returned to the USA to pick up their loads. Once they do, supply does not increase much for a month or so of the turnaround of shipping. About mid-1942 production really fills the warehouses faster than it can be shipped.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 9:41:34 AM   
clamel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Yes, LA will consume all the resources sitting in the pool, every turn. However, if you turn off Heavy Industry for a week or so, you'll be awash in resources and can ship them wherever. Bottom line, the Allies will never notice the difference, and you'll be able to use LA as an occasional source of resources from then on. Technically that's "penny wise and pound foolish", but in this case you can ignore the statisticians.


OK, it was your spreadsheet I followed to the letter.
Create Cargo TF (2), Dock, Load Resource, to Pearl Harbor, Do Not Refuel

But I didn't turn off any industries. (I try that for sure)

It was the only TF leaving with resources loaded (or should have been).
I can buy that LA was sucked from resources, since as I said they only had a couple of hundres when that turn 2 started. That was my first reaction.
But then I assumed that the Do Not Unload was strictly something that came in play when the TF reached it destination. Risking a TF unload already stored and loaded stuff at the port of leaving, thanks to any reason, is a massive hickup.
You could end up with TFs all over the place that leaves unloaded.
I can't think all of you click Do Not Unload and wait until ALL TFs are at sea with orders not to unload, and then turn on regular Unload. Then in this case I think the TF would have left anyway, so not a good option.
As in real life TF could be held up one extra day before leaving I guess, and should then the TF start unloading is a huge bug.

The strange "bug" is that if you give a ship an order to load something, whatever, it should remain at the dock until it has loaded the stuff. If short of the stuff, it just have to wait.
How could one as a player keep an eye on this. At the end of a turn you see that correct orders are given, but you can't be sure if the stuff will run out during the ongoing turn. I clearly saw +16000 tons at the port and those ships had 13,000 tons, so naturally I gave it the benefit of a doubt that it would fix it. Or stay in port until it was loaded

I understand now why the TF is empty, BUT it gives me a scare that this could happen anytime now and at any port.
Surely you guys that played this game for years have stumbled into the same, or do you sit down for hours with a calculater and try to figure out if the port will run dry ??
The game is deep as it is so this is triple overtime. And not very realistic, as so many other stuff in the game really are like life.

I buy all the comments that the loading should have been at different places or different routes, BUT as said I followed a bloke I trusted and that is why I decided to load at LA.
Did I miss something in the spreadsheet ?? Probably.

Big thanks to all for the answers, it help me see the clear thing.

To those telling me Do Not Unload set, are you checking out each and every TF every turn to see if they got the loads and then remove that when they get to sea ? Wow. You must find ships taking of with no load even with that Do Not Unload is in play, since the ship leaves the port with or without the cargo. We have seen that now. Maybe you set Remain At Station too, but I thought that was for the next port or the final port, not starting port.
It turns my head a bit.

The result is as I feared, let the TF return, maybe to a different port, and see if it could get those resources loaded somehow. Also turn off Heavy at LA for a couple of days and see how that turns out.

As you already thought I spent looong time now checking every TF leaving or at sea on that next turn.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 9:56:52 AM   
GetAssista

 

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Never ever ship resources as allies, unless you feel the urge to waste port time (and maybe Hilo->PH). You don't need resources, you need ships to ship supplies (and fuel) instead from all over the map borders to where it is needed

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 1:54:47 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever ship resources as allies, unless you feel the urge to waste port time (and maybe Hilo->PH). You don't need resources, you need ships to ship supplies (and fuel) instead from all over the map borders to where it is needed

+1

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 3:27:58 PM   
clamel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever ship resources as allies, unless you feel the urge to waste port time (and maybe Hilo->PH). You don't need resources, you need ships to ship supplies (and fuel) instead from all over the map borders to where it is needed


As a newbie I just follow Kulls spreadsheet and he say this TF for resources, but I'm open to all suggestions. I haven't really figured out the resources, supply thing yet. This great game takes a bit of learning.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 3:58:26 PM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever ship resources as allies, unless you feel the urge to waste port time (and maybe Hilo->PH). You don't need resources, you need ships to ship supplies (and fuel) instead from all over the map borders to where it is needed


As a newbie I just follow Kulls spreadsheet and he say this TF for resources, but I'm open to all suggestions. I haven't really figured out the resources, supply thing yet. This great game takes a bit of learning.



Yeah, that was a mistake. The resources won't load until you have an excess in LA. That will happen in time (North America produces more than it can consume, and eventually the excess will appear in your ports), but at the start of the game you won't have any unless you turn off the LA HI for a few turns.

The people advising you to ignore resources are technically correct - the Allies can survive without shipping them. However, the developers set the game up so you would have shortages in certain regions, and it's more in keeping with the spirit of the design to meet those needs. Do you have to? No.

I'd also suggest that it's a bad habit to ignore resource and oil deficits (and the shipments necessary to meet those needs) since if you ever play as Japan and follow that same logic, your economy will soon collapse.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 4:58:39 PM   
RangerJoe


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yes, it is a good habit to get into.

When unloading a TF not all ships will always unload at the same rate even if they are the same type of ship. Then some may need maintenance at the port. The ones that empty first and don't need maintenance can load excess resources for their return to Hawaii or wherever they are going. You can load the cargo portion of the troop transports.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 6:20:44 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
The people advising you to ignore resources are technically correct - the Allies can survive without shipping them. However, the developers set the game up so you would have shortages in certain regions, and it's more in keeping with the spirit of the design to meet those needs. Do you have to? No.

I'd also suggest that it's a bad habit to ignore resource and oil deficits (and the shipments necessary to meet those needs) since if you ever play as Japan and follow that same logic, your economy will soon collapse.

When I feel like roleplaying I do ship resources as Allies, like from DEI and north Oz south or on return trips. But if I ask you what particular regions for the Allies are at a resource deficit to justify continuous shipping you would be hard-pressed for the answer. There are practically none. Moreso if compared to the usual Japanese troubles. Also one should always keep in mind that conversion rate of resource units to supply is at best 10 to 1 (when heavy industry is at work) so even if your ship uses x10 more time for a supply laden trip from off-map it would be worth it compared to a resource trip.

I don't really think that good practices needed to play Japanese industry can be trained with playing Allies, including paying attention to resources. The games are completely different here.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 7:13:56 PM   
dwesolick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

So sorry if this might be clear to vets of the game, but I'm still a newbie



Welcome to this great game. Since you are new I would say that you can completely ignore resources as the Allies. You have about a million +one other things to learn and worry about in this complex but very rewarding game.

Like many others here, I've been playing (UV/WitP/WitP-AE) for nearly two decades (exclusively as Allies) and I've never once created a "resource" carrying TF in all that time. Just focus on shipping supplies and fuel to your critical bases and you will be good to go.

Enjoy the game!

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 7:37:52 PM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
But if I ask you what particular regions for the Allies are at a resource deficit to justify continuous shipping you would be hard-pressed for the answer.


So hard pressed that I'd have to take a minute to consult my Allied "Resource Tracking" spreadsheet?




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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/2/2021 9:12:24 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
So hard pressed that I'd have to take a minute to consult my Allied "Resource Tracking" spreadsheet?

Good one, kudos for the work done!

By the way, East and West Oz are connected flows-wise. Only northern part is isolated

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/3/2021 8:12:04 AM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
So hard pressed that I'd have to take a minute to consult my Allied "Resource Tracking" spreadsheet?

Good one, kudos for the work done!

By the way, East and West Oz are connected flows-wise. Only northern part is isolated


Indeed they are. In fact - truth be told - all the Eastern Oz Resource requirements can be met by running convoys from Tasmania and Port Hedlund. (And a little bit of oil helps keeps the factories running, too). And yes, I don't dispute any of the MANY posts indicating that Allied resource convoys aren't necessary. But I love the extreme depth of a game that gives you that role playing option. And failing to point it out to new players is not something I can bring myself to do...

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/3/2021 9:11:40 AM   
clamel

 

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So much deep knowledge, that is needed in this game.
Spreadsheet game on steroids.

Puh, and I'm only getting started to dig into this game.


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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/3/2021 9:27:53 AM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

So much deep knowledge, that is needed in this game.
Spreadsheet game on steroids.

Puh, and I'm only getting started to dig into this game.


Here's the thing. As the Allies you can make an ENORMOUS number of mistakes....and still win. Just like history. So don't worry about whether any single action could be devastating. It won't be. You will recover from EVERY newbie mistake. Because here's the other thing. With every turn that passes, you'll learn more and more, and eventually YOU will be the confident conductor of the vast orchestra which is the Allied war effort. Yes, it DOES take time to figure things out, but in this game, time is on your side.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/3/2021 9:52:32 AM   
HansBolter


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Can't Pearl get all the resources it needs from Hilo?

I set up a two or three ship Continuous Supply TF from Hilo to Pearl and forget about it for the rest of the game.

Using the closest source is always the most efficient.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/3/2021 9:53:10 AM >


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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/3/2021 12:14:23 PM   
clamel

 

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Have a look at this TF when it returned to LA.
It was as you seen in earlier ppicture having zero load.

Now it sits in port and it says FULLY loaded in the text, but 0 in current load.

This got to be a sort of bug. I promise I just ordered it back to LA and haven't of course had time to click on Load.
After this picture I did and it accepted that Load and showed Loading Supplies
Yes I did change to supplies instead of resource.





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< Message edited by clamel -- 4/3/2021 12:16:11 PM >

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/3/2021 12:14:55 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

So much deep knowledge, that is needed in this game.
Spreadsheet game on steroids.

Puh, and I'm only getting started to dig into this game.


Here's the thing. As the Allies you can make an ENORMOUS number of mistakes....and still win. Just like history. So don't worry about whether any single action could be devastating. It won't be. You will recover from EVERY newbie mistake. Because here's the other thing. With every turn that passes, you'll learn more and more, and eventually YOU will be the confident conductor of the vast orchestra which is the Allied war effort. Yes, it DOES take time to figure things out, but in this game, time is on your side.


When you get into 1943 and are capable of putting together a huge invasion force, you will find it is like choreographing a ballet - many different parts moving in their scripted roles at the right time. Don't be afraid to ask for help in organizing the first few - you have to start at least three months ahead getting units prepped and earmarking ships you will need. Keep a calculator handy!

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/3/2021 1:38:02 PM   
Yaab


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clamel, make a little test and try to load resources in Bombay on turn 1 as Allies. You will see the same thing. TF will finish loading and sail away with 0 resources. Ports with lots of HI/LI, which have adequate resources stocks, have them for their own HI/LI use. The surpluses are earmarked for the local industries. You cannot load resources there, at least not in the beginning of the game. Thus, you need to load resourcs from ports which have genuine resources surpluses i.e Tacoma, Coos Bay, Sale etc.

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RE: Why hasn't this TF loaded up ? - 4/3/2021 1:48:48 PM   
RangerJoe


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The only mistake that the Allies can not recover from is quitting.

That said, learn from your mistakes and don't repeat them - make new and different mistakes. That is the learning process.

Of course, some people name their mistakes. They might call them Mark, Susan . . .

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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