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List of differences between WitE and WitE2

 
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List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 3/22/2021 10:44:38 PM   
Joel Billings


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This is from section 30.1 in the manual listing differences between WitE and WitE2.

Part 1.





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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 3/22/2021 10:45:35 PM   
Joel Billings


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Part 2.






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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 4/11/2021 7:17:08 PM   
Endsieg

 

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dont know where else to post this question which I have been meaning to ask for 11 years.
All the more interesting question given release of WitE 2 a decade after WitE 1.

DOES THE AI PLAY TO WIN? (whatever scenario), WANT TO WIN (whatever scenario)?

Meaning: does the AI play to capture Victory Points/Cities? Or defend them viciously?
Too often in WiTE 1 it was easy to intimidate the AI into evacuating Victory Points/Cities by nigh encirclement.

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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 5/14/2021 2:56:04 PM   
Turbo624

 

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Other than changing the air mechanics from WITE1 (a bad change in my opinion), most of the changes seem to be minor tweaks to the original game.

What specifics changes have been made to improve the AI? In WITE1 the German AI can't use armor appropriately and the Soviet AI seems passive particularly later in the war.

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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 5/14/2021 3:35:19 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Turbo624

Other than changing the air mechanics from WITE1 (a bad change in my opinion), most of the changes seem to be minor tweaks to the original game.

What specifics changes have been made to improve the AI? In WITE1 the German AI can't use armor appropriately and the Soviet AI seems passive particularly later in the war.


https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4941282

may give you some idea how much better the AI is

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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 5/14/2021 9:43:23 PM   
Turbo624

 

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I don't know what I am supposed to ascertain from a replay, except maybe the mechanics. I bought WITW based on a replay and I disliked the game from the beginning. I am interested in what was improved with the AI in WITE2, particularly with the Axis AI.

Isn't there a list of AI improvements?

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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 5/14/2021 9:47:20 PM   
Bamilus


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I can't speak to specific improvements since I last played WITE1 a looong time ago but Soviet AI at 110 morale reforms its lines every turn. Overall the scripting of the AI just feels more realistic and I can tell you from the little I remember/know of WITE1 that it's much better but I don't know in terms of specifics, just know from playing 3 separate games against AI.

Most likely there probably isn't even a full changelog of AI improvements since the game is on an entirely different framework than WITE1.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 5/14/2021 9:48:12 PM >


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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 5/15/2021 7:51:28 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Turbo624

I don't know what I am supposed to ascertain from a replay, except maybe the mechanics. I bought WITW based on a replay and I disliked the game from the beginning. I am interested in what was improved with the AI in WITE2, particularly with the Axis AI.

Isn't there a list of AI improvements?


directly no, its been completely reworked and is still under development

the thread gives you a good idea of how the axis AI plays,

The player's notes in the manual discuss some aspects of how the AI performs

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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 5/20/2021 11:14:35 PM   
Harold Haralson

 

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My observations between 1 and 2 playing the Russian against the AI on normal.
-You can’t tell at a glance which units can be combined. This is due to units withdrawing or not being able to be combined for whatever reason. I finally decided if a unit could be disbanded it could be combined.
-You have a limitation of the number of corps units in 2 compared to 1.
-On the first turn the Soviets take a VP hit for not having forces in Transcaucus. It is not anything you can correct so why mention it?
-The Air Banners obscure your ability to see and target units for ground attack. If there is a way to move them I am not aware of it.
-The AI may be on a par for the normal variant with GGWWE1. I give the edge to GGWWE1. The GGWWE2 version leaves ports unconquered and unoccupied. Easy exploit for Russian later in the game. GGWWE2 does a better job of getting past Riga and to Leningrad. It does worse with Army Group South. Key victory cities are left open in Rumania to exploitation by Cavalry. I rate 1 the slight edge for being able to avoid encirclements.
-There appears to be an artificial limit on Stavka command and control which did not appear to be the case historically, particularly later in the war.
-The AI, in 2 particularly, does not do a good job of avoiding encirclements. It is vulnerable to attacks at the base of its spearheads. It can get away with it in the early game, but not mid game or beyond.
-The AI does not do a good job of creating depots for the Russian. The Russian player during the advance will need to create their own depots. German AI tends to put depots in the front line. Any retreats exposes them to capture. Units block the ability to form depots in a hex, which is annoying.
-When moving multiple units by rail as one stack all but one of the units disappear.
-You have as many mobs of units as the Russians in WE2 as WE1, with the complicating factor you cannot convert as many to corps.
I plan to play the next level next and see how it goes.

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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 5/21/2021 12:12:37 AM   
carlkay58

 

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A few comments:


quote:

My observations between 1 and 2 playing the Russian against the AI on normal.
-You can’t tell at a glance which units can be combined. This is due to units withdrawing or not being able to be combined for whatever reason. I finally decided if a unit could be disbanded it could be combined.

* You can mouse over the unit and it will take you that it withdraws (not the best way).

-You have a limitation of the number of corps units in 2 compared to 1.

* True.

-On the first turn the Soviets take a VP hit for not having forces in Transcaucus. It is not anything you can correct so why mention it?

* This is actually a percentage chance. The first few turns see both the Axis and Soviets take VP hits for garrisons but they usually pretty much balance out over the long term.

-The Air Banners obscure your ability to see and target units for ground attack. If there is a way to move them I am not aware of it.

* The 'a' key toggles the banners on and off

-The AI may be on a par for the normal variant with GGWWE1. I give the edge to GGWWE1. The GGWWE2 version leaves ports unconquered and unoccupied. Easy exploit for Russian later in the game. GGWWE2 does a better job of getting past Riga and to Leningrad. It does worse with Army Group South. Key victory cities are left open in Rumania to exploitation by Cavalry. I rate 1 the slight edge for being able to avoid encirclements.

* Which level do you play at? If the AI is under 110 and on the attack it has problems with forming defensive lines. At 110 and above it is actually pretty good with setting up defenses - although it can be out maneuvered and it will cut its losses with only a minimal garrison.

-There appears to be an artificial limit on Stavka command and control which did not appear to be the case historically, particularly later in the war.

* Unknown

-The AI, in 2 particularly, does not do a good job of avoiding encirclements. It is vulnerable to attacks at the base of its spearheads. It can get away with it in the early game, but not mid game or beyond.

* Again it depends on the level of the AI. It is remarkably nimble at 110 and above.

-The AI does not do a good job of creating depots for the Russian. The Russian player during the advance will need to create their own depots. German AI tends to put depots in the front line. Any retreats exposes them to capture. Units block the ability to form depots in a hex, which is annoying.

* If you are talking about the AI Depot tool it is a known problem that will be refined on in the future.

-When moving multiple units by rail as one stack all but one of the units disappear.

* When moving by rail the first unit is going to make the entire distance. But that movement uses rail capacity which slows down the next unit as the movement cost raises so that unit is stopped along the track. The third unit (if there is one) will have the additional costs due to BOTH of the previous units so it stops even further back on the track. It is best to move units by rail singly. This allows the use of divergent rails that can still reach the same area but more efficiently.

-You have as many mobs of units as the Russians in WE2 as WE1, with the complicating factor you cannot convert as many to corps.

* True.

I plan to play the next level next and see how it goes.


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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 5/21/2021 1:55:08 AM   
Harold Haralson

 

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normal appears to be set at 100 across the board.
The next level is challenging where moral for AI is 110.
Thanks for the banner tip

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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 6/21/2021 11:14:36 AM   
username01

 

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WiTE has the better map, whilst WiTE2 has the automated Air command structure...can the original WiTE map be downloaded and used on WiTE2?

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RE: List of differences between WitE and WitE2 - 6/21/2021 12:00:06 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: username01

WiTE has the better map, whilst WiTE2 has the automated Air command structure...can the original WiTE map be downloaded and used on WiTE2?


no - as explained in many threads. The WiTE1 map is a single 'picture', the WiTE2 map is made up of all the individual hexes you see. The result was that the WiTE1 map became impossible to revise as errors or new research emerged, the WiTE2 map can be readily changed as needed.

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