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No NM consequences when OE surrenders

 
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No NM consequences when OE surrenders - 2/26/2021 7:21:45 AM   
Dazo


Posts: 102
Joined: 9/28/2018
Status: offline
Happened in a MP game with ThisEndUp for 1914 main campaign (started before last patch) and we were both surprised.

OE morale fell enough to get DE 149 - UK: Sign an Armistice with the Ottoman Empire ?

Event fires: When the UK is in the war and Ottoman National Morale falls below 7%.
Cost of accepting: Nothing.

Yes: The Ottomans will sign an armistice when their National Morale falls below 1%.
No: Ottoman National Morale will receive a boost of 5000 points but should their National Morale subsequently fall below 1%, then their country will surrender to, and be occupied by, the British.

Note:
If the British had pulled out of the war or surrendered in the meantime, then the Ottomans would surrender to France or
Russia.

I went for yes and OE collapsed soon after with the fall of Aqaba (NM was below 1000 but above 1% before taking Aqaba).
Constantinople was still in OE hands as well as Baghdad/Medina and most of western/central Turkey.

There was no NM consequences for OE leaving the war, no hit on Germany or AH NM, no increase for Entente countries.
No plunder either but that may be because of the armistice (some kind of payment would be nice though).

After getting the last patch 1.04 I started a hotseat game to take down OE quickly and couldn't get NM consequences either but I got around 600 MPPs of plunder.
This time I captured Constantinople and most NM objectives so no DE 149. OE surrendered with NM going straigth to 0.
(I used Bulgaria as a russian minor)
Just to be clear: you get no NM from occupied Turkey but you do get MPPs (around 110 give or take).
In both cases, OE "minors" were liberated and went to UK (Mesopotamia, Palestine, Syria...).

From strategy guide page 5:
"This is not to say that the other Majors aren’t important, because if they do surrender or withdraw from the war then this will tend to significantly lower friendly Majors’ National Morale. For example, if Germany and Austria-Hungary’s National Morales are low when the Ottoman Empire pulls out of the war, this could trigger off a chain reaction leading to the collapse of Austria-Hungary."

So I think there is something wrong there .

***

While I'm at it, some other things that happened:

- After OE surrender, I got two UK ships trapped in Marmara sea (both straits neutral and unpassable).
(also couldn't get russian ships out of the Black Sea or send naval transports from Med).
The only way to get them out would be to declare war on just surrendered OE and occupy the straits.
I believe it would make sense to transfer the strait hexes to UK after OE surrender as it's historical:

"Both sides did not know that the other was actually quite eager to sign a deal and willing to give up some of their objectives to do so. The British delegation had been given a list of 24 demands, but were told to concede on any of them if pressed, except occupation of the forts on the Dardanelles and free passage through the Bosphorus; the British desired access to the Black Sea for the Rumanian front."
Armistice of Mudros

- After OE surrender, I got two different outcomes for Entente land units:

1) game with armistice (before patch):
Russia added eastern Turkey to its territory and russian units in eastern Turkey went either to the Caucasus or Syria (UK controlled).
That made sending back russian units to Russia a hassle (several turns of forcemarch from Syria to reach a railhead since I can't ship them through Dardanelles).

2) game without armistice and capturing OE capital (after patch):
OE was fully occupied by Entente with control of the straits and no unit "teleported" outside its borders.

Still ok but better know the difference if you want to accept the armistice :p .

< Message edited by Dazo -- 2/27/2021 5:49:24 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: No NM consequences when OE surrenders - 2/26/2021 7:48:20 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


Posts: 743
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
Interesting that you had to go to war with rump OE and occupy the straits to get your ships out of the Sea of Marmara. It's almost like the Young Turks said "Hell no, you can't go!), and the Entente had to put the boot down......again.

(in reply to Dazo)
Post #: 2
RE: No NM consequences when OE surrenders - 2/26/2021 3:04:52 PM   
Dazo


Posts: 102
Joined: 9/28/2018
Status: offline
Actually I didn't but I considered it since I couldn't think of any other way to do it.
Being able to DOW OE after surrender shouldn't be possible in my mind.

Our game has been a bit weird with FR close to 0%, UK and AH just below 50%, Italy below 70% Germany at 90% and Russia 125% NM.
US were at 80% before a lucky roll on the Zim telegram bringing it down to below 60%.

OE surrender having no effect on CP was clearly a bummer .

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)
Post #: 3
RE: No NM consequences when OE surrenders - 2/26/2021 5:44:24 PM   
Bavre

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 12/5/2020
Status: offline
On a similar note:
In one of my previous games (1.03) it appeared as if OE did not get a boost out of Russias end. Only noticed it because my OE keeled over exactly one turn after the Russians .
Considering the centuries of animosities between those two and the considerable boost Russian receives from OEs end, this seems a bit weird.

(in reply to Dazo)
Post #: 4
RE: No NM consequences when OE surrenders - 2/26/2021 6:19:18 PM   
Dazo


Posts: 102
Joined: 9/28/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bavre

On a similar note:
In one of my previous games (1.03) it appeared as if OE did not get a boost out of Russias end. Only noticed it because my OE keeled over exactly one turn after the Russians .
Considering the centuries of animosities between those two and the considerable boost Russian receives from OEs end, this seems a bit weird.


Weird indeed seems this issue is OE specific but FR will soon collapse in my game so I'll see if CP gets a boost they don't need (got a fresh UK infantry corps attacking a 12 steps uber AH artillery on a clear tile and result was 4-1 against me, brutal )


(in reply to Bavre)
Post #: 5
RE: No NM consequences when OE surrenders - 2/26/2021 8:35:16 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4511
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dazo

Happened in a MP game with ThisEndUp for 1914 main campaign (started before last patch) and we were both surprised.

OE morale fell enough to get DE 149 - UK: Sign an Armistice with the Ottoman Empire ?

Event fires: When the UK is in the war and Ottoman National Morale falls below 7%.
Cost of accepting: Nothing.

Yes: The Ottomans will sign an armistice when their National Morale falls below 1%.
No: Ottoman National Morale will receive a boost of 5000 points but should their National Morale subsequently fall below 1%, then their country will surrender to, and be occupied by, the British.

Note:
If the British had pulled out of the war or surrendered in the meantime, then the Ottomans would surrender to France or
Russia.

I went for yes and OE collapsed soon after with the fall of Aqaba (NM was below 1000 but above 1% before taking Aqaba).
Constantinople was still in OE hands as well as Baghdad/Medina and most of western/central Turkey.

There was no NM consequences for OE leaving the war, no hit on Germany or AH NM, no increase for Entente countries.
No plunder either but that may be because of the armistice (some kind of payment would be nice though).

After getting the last patch 1.04 I started a hotseat game to take down OE quickly and couldn't get NM consequences either but I got around 600 MPPs of plunder.
This time I captured Constantinople and most NM objectives so no DE 149. OE surrendered with NM going straigth to 0.
(I used Bulgaria as a russian minor)
Just to be clear: you get no NM from occupied Turkey but you do get MPPs (around 110 give or take).
In both cases, OE "minors" were liberated and went to UK (Mesopotamia, Palestine, Syria...).

From strategy guide page 5:
"This is not to say that the other Majors aren’t important, because if they do surrender or withdraw from the war then this will tend to significantly lower friendly Majors’ National Morale. For example, if Germany and Austria-Hungary’s National Morales are low when the Ottoman Empire pulls out of the war, this could trigger off a chain reaction leading to the collapse of Austria-Hungary."

So I think there is something wrong there .

***

While I'm at it, some other things that happened:

- After OE surrender, I got two UK ships trapped in Marmara sea (both straits neutral and unpassable).
(also couldn't get russian ships out of the Black Sea or send naval transports from Med).
The only way to get them out would be to declare war on just surrendered OE and occupy the straits.
I believe it would make senses to transfer the strait hexes to UK after OE surrender as it's historical:

"Both sides did not know that the other was actually quite eager to sign a deal and willing to give up some of their objectives to do so. The British delegation had been given a list of 24 demands, but were told to concede on any of them if pressed, except occupation of the forts on the Dardanelles and free passage through the Bosphorus; the British desired access to the Black Sea for the Rumanian front."
Armistice of Mudros

- After OE surrender, I got two different outcomes for Entente land units:

1) game with armistice (before patch):
Russia added eastern Turkey to its territory and russian units in eastern Turkey went either to the Caucasus or Syria (UK controlled). That made sending back russian units to Russia a hassle (several turns of forcemarchfrom Syria to reach a railhead since I can't ship them through Dardanelles).

2) game without armistice and capturing OE capital (after patch):
OE was fully occupied by Entente with control of the straits and no unit "teleported" outisde its borders.

Still ok but better know the difference if you want to accept the armistice :p .


Thanks Dazo, there are scripts for it but maybe something isn't working quite right.

They are quite complicated but I've just thought of a way to streamline them AND guarantee success so will change them to that for the next patch.

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(in reply to Dazo)
Post #: 6
RE: No NM consequences when OE surrenders - 2/27/2021 5:56:42 AM   
Dazo


Posts: 102
Joined: 9/28/2018
Status: offline
Great to hear Bill, thanks for your continuous work tweaking the scripts (and letting me know) .
That will surely be veeeery satisfying for Entente to see those German and AH NM bars drop !

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 7
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