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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here [UPDATED 13/3/21]

 
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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here [UPDATED 1... - 4/10/2021 10:52:50 AM   
FJ203

 

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Great Work!

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here [UPDATED 1... - 4/11/2021 7:23:27 PM   
george420


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Thanks Taco, we've been waiting for something like this for a long time.

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here [UPDATED 1... - 4/13/2021 8:23:30 AM   
RockinHarry


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Excellent mod! At last made me purchase AB which I had in Steam WL for some time already. From my few test plays on various maps I think with some more adaptions it yields an even better WW2 experience. I.e some rather smallish thing would be unticking turret scanning for all WW2 turreted armor. I also find HMGīs give a rather pathetic performance IMO. Considering theyīd played a much more important role in WW2, their presence should be felt more.

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/19/2021 6:45:05 PM   
RockinHarry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nikolas93TS


In the official database, truck-mounted units would have AI purchase at zero, but since this is a mode it would be interesting to play test them more.




Got to agree unfortunately. From numerous playtestings I see that any "truck" type units simply donīt work. The game engine lacks a distinction between "soft" vehicles and "hard" vehicles. All are "vhicles" and thus are given "hard target" class in every case. Also doesnīt matter if assigning no armor value at all. The AI, both friendly and enemy loves shooting up "trucks" and forgets about the real important targets which are those with guns and can harm your own important units. They also consume all AP rounds, when instead MGīs or HE should be used.

Additionally comes the odd behavior of SOPīs automatically changed to default engagement ranges, when a unit receives any fire. Theyīre MAX(S)/MAX(H). Makes these SOP settings completely useless, at least in a WW2 setting. Maybe makes sense in cold war/modern setting where almost all "vehicles" are either IFV or tank and can be assumed beeing a threat.


Makes me wonder what the engagement rules are in AB generally. Is there something like a "threat rating" where (enemy) guns and combat power is considered? To me it looks the AI selects targets which are just easy kills and nothing else. At least this seems the case in AB43 mod. Havenīt played default data bases yet.

Regarding AB43 Iīd recommend taking out truck (unarmored or non combat vehicle) born units from automated pick lists again (AI purchase 0). A human player still can select them manually, while the AI canīt handle them at all.

I found (fake)tank desant units an interesting alternative for replacing truck borne infantry when in "tank" or "mechanized" engagement setting. I.e some T-34 paired with tank desant infantry and put into a "mechanized infantry" formation category. Off course infantry is not real tank riders since it benefits from the carrier vehicles armor. Thus "fake" tank desant unit. Itīs just an expedient, but still better than trucks pestering the battlefield and fleshing out mech and tank pick lists as well.

Something else AB43 could benefit from would be setting default formation spacing to smallest (60m between single units). This to reflect lack of radios in WW2 setting generally. Also helps getting some order and better overview in initial placement stage. AFAIK itīs all hard coded so adding an editable option in AB game engine would be desireable.

Iīd also wish for an editable terrain data base. Would help making a better and more versatile WW2 environment. Or changing some terrain with little use to something more appropiate. I.e thereīs no use for 4m high fences in WW2. Walls or hedge/bocage would be of better use in case the current AI can deal with that.





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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/21/2021 1:46:32 AM   
Issue8


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https://www.dropbox.com/s/22gsy9v4qnajylg/AB1943%20vehicle_brighter.zip?dl=0


I brightened the vehicle sprites. THere is lots of great art detail in there, but I think too dark to see.

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/21/2021 1:48:59 AM   
Issue8


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The zip files contains a vehicle folder to replace the current vehicle folder in the database for this mod.





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< Message edited by Issue8 -- 4/21/2021 1:49:25 AM >

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/21/2021 1:51:48 AM   
Issue8


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German stuff too. Backup your original folder in case you prefer the darker stuff of course.





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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/21/2021 5:18:04 AM   
RockinHarry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Issue8

https://www.dropbox.com/s/22gsy9v4qnajylg/AB1943%20vehicle_brighter.zip?dl=0


I brightened the vehicle sprites. THere is lots of great art detail in there, but I think too dark to see.


Interesting. Iīd followed the opposite path recently. Made the AB summer terrain set bits darker and more vivid. Will also likely change the building roof textures to more eastern front and 1940ies looking. But thatīs more of a major project not to be finished that soon.

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/21/2021 9:18:30 PM   
Issue8


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Please share anything you have made if you think it is an improvement! Personally, I don't trust my eyes when adjusting for colors and brightness. I absolutely must have a histogram available. If I make a color adjustment to something, once I think it looks good, then I look at the histogram data and realize if it is too dark or too bright. Maybe I'm strange, but I just can't judge without something objectively measuring the data


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Post #: 39
RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/22/2021 9:13:21 AM   
RockinHarry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Issue8

Please share anything you have made if you think it is an improvement! Personally, I don't trust my eyes when adjusting for colors and brightness. I absolutely must have a histogram available. If I make a color adjustment to something, once I think it looks good, then I look at the histogram data and realize if it is too dark or too bright. Maybe I'm strange, but I just can't judge without something objectively measuring the data




Would likely do. My color assessment is more subjective, comparing with WW2 and contemporary color photos of landscapes. No idea if results would please a wider audience then. Yet ATM itīs all more experimental and early stage WIP. Main hindrance rather is "broken" engagement range SOP where units neglect given orders for soft and hard targets. Doesnīt make sense nor adds to motivation tweaking terrain graphics, when thereīs such a game breaker. Iīm fairly new to AB so canīt tell if the SOP behavior is as it was from the beginning (a feature) or introduced with a patch, or with AB43 mod maybe. A Matrix forum and Steam search yielded no answers unfortunately. Same with the game manual.

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/25/2021 8:26:30 AM   
Veitikka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

Main hindrance rather is "broken" engagement range SOP where units neglect given orders for soft and hard targets. Doesnīt make sense nor adds to motivation tweaking terrain graphics, when thereīs such a game breaker. Iīm fairly new to AB so canīt tell if the SOP behavior is as it was from the beginning (a feature) or introduced with a patch, or with AB43 mod maybe. A Matrix forum and Steam search yielded no answers unfortunately. Same with the game manual.


It's a feature that was added in a patch. Before it units never engaged the enemy if the range was set to zero, so the player had to micromanage a unit and reset the range if the unit was detected and had to defend itself. It can be debated if in a real situation a unit would have discipline to hold fire when under attack.

From what I remember the feedback about the change was positive.


< Message edited by Veitikka -- 4/25/2021 8:31:46 AM >


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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/25/2021 9:15:32 AM   
RockinHarry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

Main hindrance rather is "broken" engagement range SOP where units neglect given orders for soft and hard targets. Doesnīt make sense nor adds to motivation tweaking terrain graphics, when thereīs such a game breaker. Iīm fairly new to AB so canīt tell if the SOP behavior is as it was from the beginning (a feature) or introduced with a patch, or with AB43 mod maybe. A Matrix forum and Steam search yielded no answers unfortunately. Same with the game manual.


It's a feature that was added in a patch. Before it units never engaged the enemy if the range was set to zero, so the player had to micromanage a unit and reset the range if the unit was detected and had to defend itself. It can be debated if in a real situation a unit would have discipline to hold fire when under attack.

From what I remember the feedback about the change was positive.



I understand. Main problem though is general target selection after SOP range reset. In AB43 mod thereīs far less AT weaponry among all units and target selections then do not coincide with enemy units apparent threat levels. I.e I set my tanks (and not just them) to Hold Fire - S and Effective Range - H. After forced reset to MAX S/H my tanks almost always start engaging enemies that do not pose an immediate threat, like infantry, trucks etc. but not enemy armor they just received fire from and triggered the SOP reset. Then from all spotted enemies (blue ring) some far away infantry or truck gets targeted, instead of the armor. This leads to instant heavy losses cause the tanks turn toward the unimportant enemies, exposing side and rear armor toward enemy AT that keeps up constant shooting. So my question is: How is threat ratings handled generally? Think the main issue is buried in here and not set engagement ranges alone.



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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/25/2021 9:55:19 AM   
Veitikka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

I understand. Main problem though is general target selection after SOP range reset. In AB43 mod thereīs far less AT weaponry among all units and target selections then do not coincide with enemy units apparent threat levels. I.e I set my tanks (and not just them) to Hold Fire - S and Effective Range - H. After forced reset to MAX S/H my tanks almost always start engaging enemies that do not pose an immediate threat, like infantry, trucks etc. but not enemy armor they just received fire from and triggered the SOP reset. Then from all spotted enemies (blue ring) some far away infantry or truck gets targeted, instead of the armor. This leads to instant heavy losses cause the tanks turn toward the unimportant enemies, exposing side and rear armor toward enemy AT that keeps up constant shooting. So my question is: How is threat ratings handled generally? Think the main issue is buried in here and not set engagement ranges alone.



The main criteria for identified targets is the purchase cost, which is calculated automatically, or the overriding 'value' attribute set in the database editor. I can see that in the AB1943 database these are set for the tanks and trucks, so the system should understand that a tank is a more valuable target than an infantry squad or a truck. Then there are other factors, for example vehicles are more valuable than non-vehicles. The distance to the target counts.

Perhaps if you posted a screenshot of a situation we could analyze why the AI ignores a high value threat.


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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/27/2021 12:09:12 AM   
RockinHarry


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

The main criteria for identified targets is the purchase cost, which is calculated automatically, or the overriding 'value' attribute set in the database editor. I can see that in the AB1943 database these are set for the tanks and trucks, so the system should understand that a tank is a more valuable target than an infantry squad or a truck. Then there are other factors, for example vehicles are more valuable than non-vehicles. The distance to the target counts.

Perhaps if you posted a screenshot of a situation we could analyze why the AI ignores a high value threat.



Okay. Had some screenshots prepared, but at last found the odd targeting issue caused by something more specific. Think it has been mentioned in other threads before. Itīs when an AFV runs out of "ready ammo" while in the midst of an engagement. Instead of pulling new ammo (i.e needed AP) from internal stores, a unit switches to other still ready ammo (in this case HE) and then switches to an appropiate target which is "soft". I had numerous occurances where just this happened. I.e a Tiger tank was engaging a couple T-34 frontally, which were shooting back and thus triggering the MAX S/H engagement range reset. The Tiger run out of "ready" AP and with enforced MAX S/H started engaging a far away enemy infantry unit in a different map sector. The Tiger turned both hull and turret towards the infantry and at last got killed by T-34 still shooting at now exposed side and rear armor. Suffice to say this is most stupid behavior.

In my editable test AB43 data set I changed some tanks gun ammo all to "ready" (0 in store). This eased the problem somewhat. As long as thereīs high threat enemy units (AT) in range and LOS, the edited unit doesnīt switch to low threat enemies anymore.

But thatīs just one the symptoms. Question still is why should a single enemy shot override both, soft and hard engagement ranges to MAX, however they were set initially? The AIP forces suffer from same issues with engagement ranges set to MAX by default. Other related issues is waste of ammunition and loss of time cause units are always enforced to shoot at something (in LOS and range), when moving would be the better option. Makes the whole SOP range setting thing pointless. As said at this point the whole sim becomes fairly unplayable to me unfortunately.



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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 4/27/2021 8:04:12 PM   
RockinHarry


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Hereīs some screen from a current generated campaign. 1943 german bad guys vs. soviet guards on beautifull ardennes map. Both sides forces auto generated. Just purchased an additional Arty. asset. As one can see I set lots of (to me) tactical meaningfull range settings. Those without rings are set to Hold fire usually. Those which are currently enforced to MAX left aside. If Iīd leave all to default SOPīs then it usually develops to an arcade like slaughter. Not my style of play, considering the big potential of the game engine and paired with a WW2 mod in particular.

Also to be seen is a huge truck cemetary. Trucks are rather a big annoyance since the AIP uses them offensively and tend to soak up a players available AT ammo. Also default AIP formations spacing is far too large.This leads to various issues that do the AIP no good. Iīd wish for an optional setting that deals with it before an AIP force is deployed. Maybe less of an issue with modern forces (due to better C2), but helps deployments and gives the AIP more of a "Schwerpunkt" in case formations are placed closer to each other as well.

Another issue is artillery responsiveness in general. Considering this also is a ME battle in WW2 this leads to very unrealistic amount and accuracy of Arty strikes. My only tank force (a Tiger Plt) was chased across the battlefield constantly, no matter if moving or staying still. Considering amount of given TRPīs and their size no wonder actually. Feels very unrealistic in a WW2 setting. So again would be nice to have an Options setting to fine tune this before start of any battle or campaign. Same for given C2 capabilities. Still far too responsive in a WW2 setting. Considering radios are rather few and C2 more relying on runners and such. Very strange that i.e it takes no time to delete a movement order or change formation, while changing SOP engagement ranges takes a rather big orders delay. Wished one could fine tune all that better.

Iīve made a number of notes for KarlTaco but donīt know if he reads here. I dislike posting detailed stuff at Steam.




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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 5/20/2021 1:27:50 PM   
brallo100

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nikolas93TS

Yes, unzip it to the Armored Brigade\data\database folder. When you start the game, select Change Settings, and on the next screen, on the left where it says Database: use the drop down menu and select AB1943.

(although I would recommend using Steam if possible until CarlTaco update his repository, if it it true that this version is missing flags).

I did as explained above. Got message that all the files were loaded successfully. But then I can't see any single mission or campaign

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 5/21/2021 11:53:17 AM   
nikolas93TS


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There are no yet any scenario or campaigns for this mod.

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RE: AB1943 - World War II mod link/desc here - 5/21/2021 6:18:47 PM   
brallo100

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nikolas93TS

There are no yet any scenario or campaigns for this mod.

I see. The mod's description misled me Thanks!

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