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TF won't move - 2/21/2021 8:04:30 AM   
Foxendown

 

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It's early on in my Allied campaign and I am trying to move two carrier TFs towards Wake from Midway. One is set to follow the other and both are ordered to remain on station. But neither will move. They have now been stationary for several days and I'm wondering what I've missed. Please could someone put me right? Many thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 8:10:45 AM   
Ian R

 

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Can you take a screenshot of the Task Force screens and post them?

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Ian R

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Post #: 2
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 9:42:15 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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Screenshot plz.

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Post #: 3
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 11:03:53 AM   
Foxendown

 

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Thanks for your replies, screenshot attached. Sorry I got it wrong, the TFs are moving, just slowly. I make their speed 15 knots (9 hexes, 360 miles). But I can see now that is the "mission speed", I envisaged a quick dash in, striking the target then getting out just as quickly, so I should have set "full speed".

I have not played this game for years, just getting back to it and have forgotten even basics. Still a great game though.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 11:13:40 AM   
Ian R

 

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The following TF should not be set to remain on station; and neither should the leading TF if you want to go in and back out the next night.

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Ian R

(in reply to Foxendown)
Post #: 5
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 11:24:55 AM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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Don't do full speed over the distance shown in your picture - the DDs will run low on fuel and have to be refueled close to Wake Is.
Full speed runs use a great deal more fuel and can cause significant System and Engineering damage. Best to use Mission speed to get to within about 9 hexes of the target hex, then sprint in with RTB set so the TF will retreat immediately after getting to the target hex.

Since you are using a CV, your target hex can be up to six hexes from Wake Is., but you need a good D/L on target for the aircraft to launch in the morning before the CV retreats. That means night recon or naval search (if there are TFs at the island). Sending a sub into the island hex might find shipping but there might be minefields too. Some players have used a raiding DD TF to run in and out of the port. You could time it so the CV arrives in the afternoon air phase if you can have aircraft or ships/subs increase the DL in the morning air phase.

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RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 11:25:37 AM   
HansBolter


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Your problem couldn't be more obvious.

When used correctly, the Bombardment TF will automatically switch Mission speed from Cruise to Full at the right times.

It will use the Mission speed of Cruise to position for a one turn Full speed run into and back out from the target.

What has bolluxed up your attempt was setting Waypoints.

NEVER, NEVER set waypoints for a Bombardment run. They will screw it up EVERY time.

NEVER use Remain on Station or the Bombardment run will find your TF in the bombardment hex for the daytime air phases.

If you need to use waypoints to get at your target, Use a Surface Combat TF to get into the position you want with a Remain on Station order at the 'waypoint'. After it arrives, switch it to a Bombardment TF, cancel the Remain on Station order and set the target hex. Leave the TF with a Mission speed order and the game engine will make the switch to Full speed for the runs in and out.

If the 'waypoint' you need to set to be able to get into position for a bombardment run is under enemy air cover, then you just don't have a good bombardment run opportunity. Under these conditions you would carriers or LRCAP to cover your TF during positioning for the bombardment run.

Once again, the waypoints are what is screwing your attempt.

There are some glitches to know to avoid. When the distance to target is only one or two hexes greater than your TFs one turn full speed run distance, instead of the tactical AI setting your TF 9 or 10 hexes from the target, it will often move 9-10 hexes and end up setting up the next turns full speed run just a hex or two from the target. This just happened to me in my current game. In this case, again it is better to manually station a Surface Combat TF the 9 or 10 hex distance from the target before giving it new orders as a Bombardment TF to make the run in.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 2/21/2021 11:31:04 AM >


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RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 11:28:37 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 17353
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Your problem couldn't be more obvious.

When used correctly, the Bombardment TF will automatically switch Mission speed from Cruise to Full at the right times.

It will use the Mission speed of Cruise to position for a one turn Full speed run into and back out from the target.

What has bolluxed up your attempt was setting Waypoints.

NEVER, NEVER set waypoints for a Bombardment run. They will screw it up EVERY time.

NEVER use Remain on Station or the Bombardment run will find your TF in the bombardment hex for the daytime air phases.

If you need to use waypoints to get at your target, USE a Surface Combat TF to get into the position you want with a Remain on Station order at the 'waypoint'. After it arrives, switch it to a Bombardment TF, cancel the Remain on Station order and set the target hex. Leave the TF with a Mission speed order and the game engine will make the switch to Full speed for the runs in and out.

If the 'waypoint' you need to set to be able to get into position for a bombardment run is under enemy air cover, then you just don't have a good bombardment run opportunity. Under these conditions you would carriers or LRCAP to cover your TF during positioning for the bombardment run.

Once again, the waypoints are what is screwing your attempt.

You read it too quickly Hans - he is using a CV. The points about waypoints are still valid though for the run in and out that he wants to do.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 8
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 11:39:31 AM   
HansBolter


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I did indeed.

Well, Mission speed is going to be Cruise (15 kts for most warships) a majority of the time.

Outside of the Bombardment mission, Full speed has to be ordered manually and used sparingly if you don't want to end up with yard time.

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Hans


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Post #: 9
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 12:23:47 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3169
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From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I did indeed.

Well, Mission speed is going to be Cruise (15 kts for most warships) a majority of the time.

Outside of the Bombardment mission, Full speed has to be ordered manually and used sparingly if you don't want to end up with yard time.


Also, fast transport runs in at flank speed at night, does an unload and runs away if it is on 'mission speed'. I put my APD task forces on cruise speed, so they don't damage their engines.

_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 10
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 1:33:59 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1494
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Your problem couldn't be more obvious.

When used correctly, the Bombardment TF will automatically switch Mission speed from Cruise to Full at the right times.

It will use the Mission speed of Cruise to position for a one turn Full speed run into and back out from the target.

What has bolluxed up your attempt was setting Waypoints.

NEVER, NEVER set waypoints for a Bombardment run. They will screw it up EVERY time.

NEVER use Remain on Station or the Bombardment run will find your TF in the bombardment hex for the daytime air phases.

If you need to use waypoints to get at your target, Use a Surface Combat TF to get into the position you want with a Remain on Station order at the 'waypoint'. After it arrives, switch it to a Bombardment TF, cancel the Remain on Station order and set the target hex. Leave the TF with a Mission speed order and the game engine will make the switch to Full speed for the runs in and out.

If the 'waypoint' you need to set to be able to get into position for a bombardment run is under enemy air cover, then you just don't have a good bombardment run opportunity. Under these conditions you would carriers or LRCAP to cover your TF during positioning for the bombardment run.

Once again, the waypoints are what is screwing your attempt.

There are some glitches to know to avoid. When the distance to target is only one or two hexes greater than your TFs one turn full speed run distance, instead of the tactical AI setting your TF 9 or 10 hexes from the target, it will often move 9-10 hexes and end up setting up the next turns full speed run just a hex or two from the target. This just happened to me in my current game. In this case, again it is better to manually station a Surface Combat TF the 9 or 10 hex distance from the target before giving it new orders as a Bombardment TF to make the run in.

I regularly use waypoints to (try to) set a bombardment mission to go in in the phase (day or night) of my choice (in my case this is more critical since I play a 2 day turn). It usually (or better sometimes?) works.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 11
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 2:30:11 PM   
Trugrit


Posts: 879
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Foxendown,

It is a good idea to practice many of the more complex special type missions in this game.

I use a separate install of the game to run my practice maneuvers.

For bombardment I recommend using the Downfall scenario. You go into it in Head to Head play.
Have all the Japanese air groups stand down, that way you won’t be bothered by any air combat.

Then advance to the Allied orders and have all the Allied air groups stand down.

In the Downfall scenario Wake Island is occupied by a Japanese force.
Set up your Bombardment task force at Pearl and set the destination for Wake.

When you are about half way there save the game. That way you can reload it and make as many
Bombardment runs from different distances as you want until you are confident you understand
the mechanics.

You can do the same it you want to try stand off carrier raids against the island.
The game allows you to set up three waypoints for multiple passes.
Veteran players know how to stretch raids to four waypoints.


(in reply to Foxendown)
Post #: 12
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 2:51:59 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 17353
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Your problem couldn't be more obvious.

When used correctly, the Bombardment TF will automatically switch Mission speed from Cruise to Full at the right times.

It will use the Mission speed of Cruise to position for a one turn Full speed run into and back out from the target.

What has bolluxed up your attempt was setting Waypoints.

NEVER, NEVER set waypoints for a Bombardment run. They will screw it up EVERY time.

NEVER use Remain on Station or the Bombardment run will find your TF in the bombardment hex for the daytime air phases.

If you need to use waypoints to get at your target, Use a Surface Combat TF to get into the position you want with a Remain on Station order at the 'waypoint'. After it arrives, switch it to a Bombardment TF, cancel the Remain on Station order and set the target hex. Leave the TF with a Mission speed order and the game engine will make the switch to Full speed for the runs in and out.

If the 'waypoint' you need to set to be able to get into position for a bombardment run is under enemy air cover, then you just don't have a good bombardment run opportunity. Under these conditions you would carriers or LRCAP to cover your TF during positioning for the bombardment run.

Once again, the waypoints are what is screwing your attempt.

There are some glitches to know to avoid. When the distance to target is only one or two hexes greater than your TFs one turn full speed run distance, instead of the tactical AI setting your TF 9 or 10 hexes from the target, it will often move 9-10 hexes and end up setting up the next turns full speed run just a hex or two from the target. This just happened to me in my current game. In this case, again it is better to manually station a Surface Combat TF the 9 or 10 hex distance from the target before giving it new orders as a Bombardment TF to make the run in.

I regularly use waypoints to (try to) set a bombardment mission to go in in the phase (day or night) of my choice (in my case this is more critical since I play a 2 day turn). It usually (or better sometimes?) works.

Near as I have been able to determine through observation, a waypoint causes the TF to wait until the start of the next phase before moving again which can mean it is sitting at the waypoint for several hexes worth of movement time. If you set the waypoint at the hex it would normally end the phase in, there is no lost wait time.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 13
RE: TF won't move - 2/21/2021 5:42:48 PM   
Foxendown

 

Posts: 184
Joined: 5/17/2012
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Thanks for all the suggestions and information, that's helpful.

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Post #: 14
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