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Valor, Victory & Me

 
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Valor, Victory & Me - 2/16/2021 5:05:34 PM   
rico21

 

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Something tells me that tactical game lovers are going to love this game ...
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4963769
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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/16/2021 5:12:53 PM   
zakblood


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i've enjoyed the Alpha builds, and the early beta, so good luck to everyone on the beta and look forward to seeing the end product on release

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/16/2021 11:20:54 PM   
Eambar


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I have the digital versions of Lock n Load Tactical, Lock n Load Heroes of Stalingrad and Nations at War.

This looks to be of a similar system and scale. Anyone know how it compares to these?

My favourite of these three is LnL Tactical - great variety of scenarios (as varied as Libyan civil war, Falklands etc).

The infantry counters for Nations at War put me off...helmets?


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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/16/2021 11:39:12 PM   
bayonetbrant

 

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y'all know that most of these were tabletop games first, right?

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 1:44:11 AM   
Asid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant

y'all know that most of these were tabletop games first, right?


Yes



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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 3:51:38 AM   
Eambar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asid


quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant

y'all know that most of these were tabletop games first, right?


Yes




+1

Having a closer look at the video and the screenshots, it is on my shopping list. Interface looks more simple than the LnL games and I like the look of the counters. Only drawback might be the limited scope (Normandy '44), but 20 scenarios sounds good.



< Message edited by Eambar -- 2/17/2021 3:59:29 AM >

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 6:46:58 AM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings rico21,
I eagerly await the release of Valor & Victory by Matrix.
Played the boardgame version and liked it a lot. An ASL light or Lock n Load light alternative.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/28452/valor-victory

Reviews:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/332996/detailed-review

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/664993/vv-perhaps-perfect-hex-and-counter-game

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 12:50:32 PM   
rocketman71

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eambar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asid


quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant

y'all know that most of these were tabletop games first, right?


Yes




+1

Having a closer look at the video and the screenshots, it is on my shopping list. Interface looks more simple than the LnL games and I like the look of the counters. Only drawback might be the limited scope (Normandy '44), but 20 scenarios sounds good.



In a Slitherine talk yesterday the dev spoke about very ambitious plans on how to expand the game after release.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 1:32:27 PM   
Grognerd_INC


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Maybe this game can gain some traction with good developer support after release.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 3:07:52 PM   
rico21

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognerd_INC

Maybe this game can gain some traction with good developer support after release.

I and UP844 and many others...

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 3:29:53 PM   
yobowargames

 

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We are planning to have an Arnhem campaign later this year followed by the Russians as an additional Nation.





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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 3:33:37 PM   
zakblood


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Arnhem, a dream come true, thanks

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 4:03:55 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: yobowargames

We are planning to have an Arnhem campaign later this year followed by the Russians as an additional Nation.






Do you plan something for Fall Gelb i.e. Netherlands, Belgium, France in 1940?

Thanks

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 5:36:19 PM   
z1812


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I have Lock n Load Tactical, and it is a great game. However there is no scenario editor.

Valour and Victory does have an editor. So I will buy it as it looks to be a good game and has the editor.

Who knows, with the competition from V&V, perhaps Lock and Load will receive an editor as an upgrade.

I love small scale tactical games.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/17/2021 11:39:33 PM   
Rosseau

 

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My guess is you already have Matrix "Lock n Load Heroes of Stalingrad," which does have a pretty solid editor. Until LnL comes out with one, the aforementioned game would be a first choice, imo.

Best wishes to all!

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 7:46:42 AM   
Alan Sharif

 

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I have quite limited PC skills, and whilst some games I own have editors, I have never seen one I understand, and keep away from them for fear I may 'damage my game' I have seen the editor for this title, and quite frankly, It could not be simpler. I could literally build a scenario in a few minutes, then save it, re edit it etc. For the first time in my life I may/will be able to read about a small unit action in Normandy, then build a scenario to match, or just build one that is well balanced but not based on an historical action. I suspect the user made scenarios could number hundred's, it is just SO unbelievably simple to do.

< Message edited by Alan Sharif -- 2/18/2021 7:54:35 AM >


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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 12:40:16 PM   
RangerJoe


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Simply have a different installation for the games that you will used the editor and have fun, that is the object of these games. The more that you do, the better that you will get.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 2:23:01 PM   
wodin


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Why oh why do developers of tactical wargames keep leaving out the features missing from all previous similar games that players keep asking for, like multi level buildings. I don't get it. If I was going to all that trouble and hard work of developing a new tactical wargame I'd make sure it has all those features that are always requested and always missing. That way I know the game will stand out from the crowd and offer players features\mechanics missing from all previous similar games. Otherwise why make a game that's like all the previous ones. Seems alot of hardwork for nothing new.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 2:52:46 PM   
rico21

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Why oh why do developers of tactical wargames keep leaving out the features missing from all previous similar games that players keep asking for, like multi level buildings. I don't get it. If I was going to all that trouble and hard work of developing a new tactical wargame I'd make sure it has all those features that are always requested and always missing. That way I know the game will stand out from the crowd and offer players features\mechanics missing from all previous similar games. Otherwise why make a game that's like all the previous ones. Seems alot of hardwork for nothing new.

From Game Designer Barry Doyle

I had one goal in mind when designing this game: simplicity and realism. For me, the fun of playing a wargame is more dependent on historicity than rules. I like a simple, very varied (units, situations, scenarios) wargame much more than complicated simulations.
Often times a simple wargame is not considered realistic, but I always thought that realism was subordinate to the system in question. For example, sub-tactical wargames typically use complicated formulas to determine armor and fire penetration factor. A simpler system tends to use a more abstract approach, more apt to focus on tactics and not on data; Art against Science! Realism, in my humble opinion, is represented by two things: the story contained in the game and the capacity of a unit in relation to others and to reality. For example, if a Stuart has weaker armor than a Sherman and the Sherman has weaker armor than a Pershing, then the system is realistic. With V&V, most of the complicated mechanics of other tactical and sub-tactical wargames have been put aside or simplified in favor of gameplay. For example, morale - a notion I have always viewed as slowing down the flow of a game - is captured in personal fights through the use of loss points. This simplification, althoughretaining some abstract form of morale, keeps speed as a focal point, at the heart of this combat system.
I knew from the start that I wanted a modified - or inspired by - version of Avalon Hill's elegant zonal infantry combat system, but I didn't know how to go about it. In fact, many friends had told me that it was nearly impossible with tactical or sub-tactical play, although Avalon Hill had done it before in Storm Over Arnhem.
As I designed the game and then tested it, I realized that my system worked, but the tactics would be totally different from other tactical games. I think all of this makes me appreciate V&V even more. And I'm glad I persevered with my original idea. The armored fighting system owes a lot to games such as Rommel’s Panzers and Stalin’s Tanks from Metagaming. In fact, these two games are my favorites and were the origin of V&V. Many nights I would wake up thinking about all the extra pawns and units that could have been added, wishing Metagaming had continued the series. Valor & Victory, through many hours of design and testing eventually evolved into the tactical and sub-tactical game that I had always dreamed of owning - and more importantly - playing. The effort was monumental, but often challenging and rewarding. I sincerely hope you enjoy putting this game together and playing as much as I enjoyed designing it.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 3:41:04 PM   
wodin


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But we have a fair amount of games out already just like this.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 3:59:23 PM   
rico21

 

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The number of tactical wargames that I have played regularly for years can be counted with the fingers of one hand.





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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 4:17:24 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

The number of tactical wargames that I have played regularly for years can be counted with the fingers of one hand.







For me it's four (Squad Battles (for me no top down, 2D turn based tactical wargame does it better, yet SB has areas for improvement), TSS games, Combat Missionx2 games and Graviteam Tactics Muis Front and DLC)! Reason is because of what I've highlighted. Considering there are a fair amount out there, they are all doing pretty much the same thing. I'm looking forward to Second Front, Steel Tigers and Burden of Command, lets see how they measure up. All others that have hit my radar have nothing that stands out.

The developer talks about simplifying, yet my issue is that most are already to simple and abstract. The lower the scale the less abstraction there should be. We have the LnL games series or Company of Heroes etc already out there doing exactly this. It's the lack of indepth and detailed tactical games that needs addressing esp in the 2D top down format. Why I put SB top. It considers each individual soldier and his weapon, no squad abstracted together. Casualties at the man scale so not the abstract full squad half squad mechanic. As I said I think the lower the scale the less abstraction should be used.

< Message edited by wodin -- 2/18/2021 4:25:02 PM >


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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 5:41:00 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

For me it's four (Squad Battles (for me no top down, 2D turn based tactical wargame does it better, yet SB has areas for improvement), TSS games, Combat Missionx2 games and Graviteam Tactics Muis Front and DLC)! Reason is because of what I've highlighted. Considering there are a fair amount out there, they are all doing pretty much the same thing. I'm looking forward to Second Front, Steel Tigers and Burden of Command, lets see how they measure up. All others that have hit my radar have nothing that stands out.

The developer talks about simplifying, yet my issue is that most are already to simple and abstract. The lower the scale the less abstraction there should be. We have the LnL games series or Company of Heroes etc already out there doing exactly this. It's the lack of indepth and detailed tactical games that needs addressing esp in the 2D top down format. Why I put SB top. It considers each individual soldier and his weapon, no squad abstracted together. Casualties at the man scale so not the abstract full squad half squad mechanic. As I said I think the lower the scale the less abstraction should be used.


Squad Battles is just horrible to look at. And, I am not sure Steel Tigers will have the management of each individual soldier and his weapon.

I miss something like Jagged Alliance...

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 5:46:31 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

For me it's four (Squad Battles (for me no top down, 2D turn based tactical wargame does it better, yet SB has areas for improvement), TSS games, Combat Missionx2 games and Graviteam Tactics Muis Front and DLC)! Reason is because of what I've highlighted. Considering there are a fair amount out there, they are all doing pretty much the same thing. I'm looking forward to Second Front, Steel Tigers and Burden of Command, lets see how they measure up. All others that have hit my radar have nothing that stands out.

The developer talks about simplifying, yet my issue is that most are already to simple and abstract. The lower the scale the less abstraction there should be. We have the LnL games series or Company of Heroes etc already out there doing exactly this. It's the lack of indepth and detailed tactical games that needs addressing esp in the 2D top down format. Why I put SB top. It considers each individual soldier and his weapon, no squad abstracted together. Casualties at the man scale so not the abstract full squad half squad mechanic. As I said I think the lower the scale the less abstraction should be used.


Squad Battles is just horrible to look at. And, I am not sure Steel Tigers will have the management of each individual soldier and his weapon.

I miss something like Jagged Alliance...



Mods out there to help with that, plus it's all about the gameplay.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 7:18:52 PM   
z1812


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From: Toronto Ontario
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Why oh why do developers of tactical wargames keep leaving out the features missing from all previous similar games that players keep asking for, like multi level buildings. I don't get it. If I was going to all that trouble and hard work of developing a new tactical wargame I'd make sure it has all those features that are always requested and always missing. That way I know the game will stand out from the crowd and offer players features\mechanics missing from all previous similar games. Otherwise why make a game that's like all the previous ones. Seems alot of hardwork for nothing new.


Lock and Load Tactical Digital has multi-story buildings. Movement is intuitive. With your unit in a building hex, you click on a stair icon, up/down, which moves your unit up or down.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 8:05:48 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Why oh why do developers of tactical wargames keep leaving out the features missing from all previous similar games that players keep asking for, like multi level buildings. I don't get it. If I was going to all that trouble and hard work of developing a new tactical wargame I'd make sure it has all those features that are always requested and always missing. That way I know the game will stand out from the crowd and offer players features\mechanics missing from all previous similar games. Otherwise why make a game that's like all the previous ones. Seems alot of hardwork for nothing new.


Lock and Load Tactical Digital has multi-story buildings. Movement is intuitive. With your unit in a building hex, you click on a stair icon, up/down, which moves your unit up or down.


My big gripe I had with LnL Stalingrad was the spotting and shooting mechanic. How you couldn't do recon by fire and had to respot every turn. Hated it. Esp as Germans used recon by fire ALOT during Stalingrad city fighting. Plus full squad/half squad abstraction really not keen.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 8:30:35 PM   
RangerJoe


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How could there be an Arnhem scenario without multilevel building? How else are the engineers going to drop plastic explosive charges down the top hatch of a tank without leaving the building?

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 11:03:25 PM   
MrsWargamer


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Valor and Victor is likely a safe bet I will purchase. But it will be one of my minor expense expectations.

I'm waiting on Second Front for my Squad Leader fix though. From what I have seen, I'll gladly drop a 100 dollar bill on it casually.

Valour and Victor seems like an ok game, but anything much past 20 bucks become increasingly too much to ask.

I tend to consider wargames as being 5, 20, 60, and 100+ categories. 5 being something I can play on a tablet. 20 being something that might best be played on a computer, but very near to a video game level of complexity, 60 for what I call mainstream wargames, and 100+ reserved for the hardcore purchases such as Gary's upcoming War in the East 2.

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RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/18/2021 11:53:44 PM   
z1812


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From: Toronto Ontario
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Why oh why do developers of tactical wargames keep leaving out the features missing from all previous similar games that players keep asking for, like multi level buildings. I don't get it. If I was going to all that trouble and hard work of developing a new tactical wargame I'd make sure it has all those features that are always requested and always missing. That way I know the game will stand out from the crowd and offer players features\mechanics missing from all previous similar games. Otherwise why make a game that's like all the previous ones. Seems alot of hardwork for nothing new.


Lock and Load Tactical Digital has multi-story buildings. Movement is intuitive. With your unit in a building hex, you click on a stair icon, up/down, which moves your unit up or down.


My big gripe I had with LnL Stalingrad was the spotting and shooting mechanic. How you couldn't do recon by fire and had to respot every turn. Hated it. Esp as Germans used recon by fire ALOT during Stalingrad city fighting. Plus full squad/half squad abstraction really not keen.


I am not talking about LNL Stalingrad. Look for "Lock and Load Tactical Digital". It is a completely different game.

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Post #: 29
RE: Valor, Victory & Me - 2/19/2021 12:58:38 AM   
wodin


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I thought they'd be very similar both being conversions of the LnL boardgames.

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