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My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:33:34 PM   
baloo7777


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This is a thread in which I'll post as many screenshots as I think I can reasonably do... I am not savvy enough to put more than one per post and I have 30 of them, so I'll try and keep the number down.
When I first played WarPlan PBEM long time ago using 1.07/1.08, I thought you were never able to find and damage a UBoat but once in a blue moon, and that seems to be the consensus among players now.
Since beginning PBEM again recently, I have found much damage and sinking of UBoats by the Allies prior to summer/fall of 1941, including in 1939. I am playing 6 of the 8 PBEM games as the Axis as I had very little experience playing as the allies... but my first several posts are me as the Allies and my opponents message as it mirrors my Axis experiences:






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:34:59 PM   
baloo7777


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My opponents sub losses with me as allies that led his message:






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:36:31 PM   
baloo7777


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Sinking UBoats early in BOA (me Allies on a few):






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:38:54 PM   
baloo7777


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UBoat sinkings early BOA:






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:41:42 PM   
baloo7777


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UBoat sunk by air while repairing in port (with max AA-6 guns)... can you say hardened concrete sub bunkers like in the real war???






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< Message edited by baloo7777 -- 2/10/2021 4:42:19 PM >


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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:44:36 PM   
baloo7777


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Damaging UBoats, early BOA:






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:46:22 PM   
baloo7777


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More Damaging UBoats, early BOA:






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:46:50 PM   
ncc1701e


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Are you sure you and your opponent are putting submarines in Raider mode?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:48:51 PM   
baloo7777


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More Damaging UBoats, early BOA:
(I have many more screenshots... I'll post some combat casualty logs now)...






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:51:12 PM   
baloo7777


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Damage to UBoat vs Merchants/Escorts on Casualty Tables (early BOA years):






< Message edited by baloo7777 -- 2/10/2021 4:52:00 PM >


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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:54:21 PM   
baloo7777


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One previous was from a good start to BOA (I'm not cherry-picking results).
Damage to UBoat vs Merchants/Escorts on Casualty Tables (early BOA years):








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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:55:39 PM   
ncc1701e


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And, which patch are you running right now? 1.09?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:55:55 PM   
baloo7777


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Further casualty tables:






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 4:57:34 PM   
ncc1701e


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And sorry, how many subs do you have?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:01:47 PM   
baloo7777


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Further casualty tables (later into 1941)... btw... these are from different PBEM games...some using 1.091, some using beta 10u3... played on 2 different laptops using fresh downloads of game after I worried mine was corrupted instead of just luck involved:






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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:03:49 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Which version?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:04:48 PM   
baloo7777


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Last post (have more, but I hope I showed what I've experienced in the early years of BOA)... all these combat results would be realistic if it was later than mid-1941:










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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:20:19 PM   
baloo7777


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Which version?


Started 2 PBEM Games with beta 10u3 and 6 started under 1.091.

When I play Axis (6 games) I send out whatever subs have no damage in groups of 2 or 3. My normal is to have 3 groups of 2 (considering they each represent 10-15 UBoats, a 30 UBout Wolfpack is about normal for the real War).
I started holding subs back into 2 groups of 3 when possible, but I still take on average 2 damage points every other turn or so.
In my only 2 PBEM games as the Allies, one opponent sends his in single sub groups and trys to spread them out so he only hits one 10 escort convoy route... but hasn't helped as can be seen by the message he sent me in 1939.
The other (more experienced maybe) opponent sends his out in groups of 3 usually, but still takes damage though no sinking if I remember correctly.

This is just my experience... but in a bunch of PBEM games having mostly this happen... I think somehow the 10 escorts used that are 1939/1940 tech vs 1940/41 tech UBoats are overpowered... and if itt's a lot of dice rolls to hit (and damage or sink a sub)... even over a short time like 20 turns, you can have lots of hits and damage to UBoats...like throwing snake eyes in the old AH game of Squad Leader (but over and over). It can take hundreds or more turns for dice rolls to even out to the expected percentages.
Again... seems to be mostly my experience and if any other having this for the BOA they aren't really saying so.

< Message edited by baloo7777 -- 2/10/2021 6:20:56 PM >


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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:27:06 PM   
battlevonwar


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Something has to be off baloo7777, start a random Axis PBEM and let me see what you're doing wrong?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:28:06 PM   
baloo7777


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Are you sure you and your opponent are putting submarines in Raider mode?


I can tell your scepticism by the tone of your reply... but I certainly checked my own since the first times playing version 1.07 as it was new and I didn't realize they don't start in raider mode to begin the war (by losing a few and having my opponent point it out). I am fairly sure neither me nor my opponents are complete newbies.

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:35:39 PM   
ncc1701e


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I am just trying to understand your problem. Could you please post a screenshot of your research screen of this game? And a screen of your OOB? How many subs do you have?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:39:07 PM   
baloo7777


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quote:

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Something has to be off baloo7777, start a random Axis PBEM and let me see what you're doing wrong?


Seems to be the consensus. Again, I have 8 PBEM games going... in 6 I play the Axis and in 2 I play the Allies. It has happened in many games over the early war (not to 1942 in any game yet), and to the Axis UBoats whether I am playing as Germans or as British.
If you are suggesting I start a PBEM game with you and I take the Axis (1939 scenario) I will...

Also, again... Early on (I put up posts previously) I worried that maybe the Steam version wasn't working correctly. I ended up deleting that version. I downloaded a fresh version to each of 2 computers and use 1.091 on one computer and beta 10u3 on the other.
When setting up the challenges, the accepting opponent can see which version it was set up in, and I believe we are each in the correct version.

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:51:17 PM   
battlevonwar


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I am using 10U7, I am pretty sure that doesn't make a different to the U-Boat Mechanic in basis? There have been changes but nothing major since the official patch as far as U-boat Mechanic... 2 Step Hits in beginning of '39 is normal in bad cases. It happens to me a lot, 3 step hits sometimes.. I have had a 4 step hit I think rarely... but that is just bad luck shouldn't happen much...

Put up a game I should be able to join as Allies let me see what happens if we can do that?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:52:30 PM   
baloo7777


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

I am just trying to understand your problem. Could you please post a screenshot of your research screen of this game? And a screen of your OOB? How many subs do you have?


All these games have progressed a lot farther along as I just kept the screenshots for a later post.

That said... in EVERY game I play as the Germans, I max out research for Subs (and assault, interceptor, heavy armor, close support). EVERY turn I start a routine of taking 1 research point away from anti-tank and going through the afore-mentioned techs trying to add it (either having it go up by 1 or research maxxed message). UBoats start at 4 tech points and when able go to 5. By early 41 they are at 6.Once Barbarossa begins I place less emphasis on UBoat tech and use what subs/surface fleetsI have to stop convoys to the Soviets.

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:58:16 PM   
battlevonwar


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By '41 the ASW for the Allies is like '42 if they max it out. You will get diminished returns there... but you should of got 75-150 merchants at least? If you even put 4-5 U-boats out and play em right?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 5:59:32 PM   
baloo7777


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At least one opponent has had a similar problem with UBoat losses in one of my only games as the Allies (See first post).

Note: I mentioned in a post not long ago (someone else's thread) that one of my Allied opponents complained when my 2 fleet UBoat group sank 6 merchants and 3 escorts in one turn (2 attacks). He said he had never seen anything like it before. At the time, an experienced player replied to me that there was a bit of luck involved in the BOA. Lots of dice rolls can lead to various outcomes, so there is that.

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 6:01:11 PM   
battlevonwar


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Those type of hits happen a lot if someone is lagging in tech, subhunters and even then? 1 of those 2 give?

Even still U-boats early game tend to get those huge hits especially if your ASW is not good. By '43 ASW you should be relaxed about the situation.. Plus 10% Subhunter

load up a game

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 6:11:48 PM   
baloo7777


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quote:

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

By '41 the ASW for the Allies is like '42 if they max it out. You will get diminished returns there... but you should of got 75-150 merchants at least? If you even put 4-5 U-boats out and play em right?


And I usually do. Go back and look at the casualty tables I posted for 1941... 60-80 merchants and 5-10 escorts sunk... but I could go through all the PBEM games I have going now and post the casualty tables and some I have over 100 mm and 10 escorts sunk while losing 25-40 damage pts to UBoats.
Its my overall impression that the UBoats are damaged and in port for repair too often in the EARLY BOA, and it takes into mid-summer '41 or later to do 100+ merchant damage. I don't do cost analysis of PP's Axis UBoat damage vs Allies as by 1941-42 the Allies have PP's in spades... and the Brits alone still have at least 150+ merchants and 20+ escorts by then. I am pretty sure no opponents have had to use all their PP's for merchant/escort building.
In any case... I have a similar weakness to some WWII Generals in that I am a land warfare leaning person, and my BOA experience is just re-inforcing that tendancy.

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 6:28:10 PM   
baloo7777


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quote:

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar


quote:

Put up a game I should be able to join as Allies let me see what happens if we can do that?


I would love to... Only I can't update to beta 10u7 as 2 of my PBEM opponents and I started games in beta 10u3 and we are in Barbarossa now. Perhaps we can play using 1.091 (I have on a separate computer from the beta)?

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RE: My BOA Experience - 2/10/2021 9:05:18 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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If this is happening in all versions than it is your tactics.

If you are placing 1 sub per hex in the North Atlantic you will get picked off by planes and ASW in 1.00.091
less so in Beta.

Stack subs in groups of 3 and send singles to far away zones so the Allies are forces to choose.
If you stack single subs in the North Atlantic when they own Iceland yes they will pick you off one by one.
I played 1.00.091 and Beta and I my subs aren't at risk to be outright sunk till 1943.

If they have more than 1 damage pull them back.

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