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Tank Design Calculator - 2/10/2021 4:16:05 PM   
Clux


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Ladies and Gentleman's... We're proud to present to you the first Shadow Empire Tank Design Calculator



Currently the only thing "left" to get "right" its the oil/energy consumption and add L/H Walker class units.

It was done in excel and it works in regular excel from MS and the LibreOffice version. The results are 99% accurate to the final design in game, if you find any errors don't hesitate to report them :)

The steps to calculate a design:

1.- Select the unit Type
2.- Select the weapon type and size (take into account design limitations, for example light max gun its 60mm)
3.- Select armor type and thickness
4.- Input the design rolls, if its your first model, leave them at 100
5.- Select what techs you have researched, leave it at "0" if you don't have them or a "1" if you have them already
6.- If you have some progress into the applied science techs, write its percentage, if you don't, leave it at "0".

If you have further questions you can ask here or in the unofficial shadow empire discord

Big thanks to DTurtle since he deciphered most of the in game formulas and helped me to organize better the excel formulas.

Link to the excel calculator (you need to download it to use it)

< Message edited by Clux -- 3/25/2021 10:11:41 PM >


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Amateurs talk about strategy. Professionals talk about logistics!
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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 2/10/2021 4:16:30 PM   
Clux


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From: Mexico
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--- Change log ---

V1.3 Oficial Release
V1.4 Made some QoL improvements, added 400mm armor and fixed armor cost/weight values for Monitor Type
V1.5 Added the size movement penalty, changed the logic of the formulas for Tank destroyers and removed the 200mm armor option for assault guns
V1.5b Added a new table for armor values for monitor class (corrections to weight and material costs)
V1.6 Finally added the oil usage formula (thanks GuardsmanGary!), fixed some issues with the formulas for unique components of monitor class, fixed the atomic weapons optimization formula and corrected several armor weights
V1.6b Extended the weight band so fuel consumption of heavier vehicles its correctly calculated and changed the oil usage of nuclear engines to 0

< Message edited by Clux -- 3/26/2021 6:29:17 PM >

(in reply to Clux)
Post #: 2
RE: Tank Design Calculator - 2/11/2021 6:18:32 AM   
Mina

 

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Hey, nice work! This'll be very useful to a lot of people, including myself.

Two things that immediately came to mind as far as suggestions go are uploading a version to google drive, as that's free and most people will have a gmail account. I opened the .xls in sheets and it seemed to convert fine.
The other was making it so that you don't need to add a % to the end of the linear tech fields, so it treats any whole number as being a percentage out of 100. The difference between Laser weapons 100% and Laser Weapons 100 is... a bit huge.

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 2/11/2021 4:53:29 PM   
Mestor

 

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this is SO good. Thank you, I feel like unit design is such an arcane art where the inputs vs the outcomes are so very distanced. I can't imagine the amount of work that went into this, and I thank each of you (Clux, DTurtle, and Orange Devil) who helped with it.

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 2/11/2021 6:07:18 PM   
Pymous


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Great work guys!!

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 2/11/2021 11:06:36 PM   
Clux


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From: Mexico
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mina

Hey, nice work! This'll be very useful to a lot of people, including myself.

Two things that immediately came to mind as far as suggestions go are uploading a version to google drive, as that's free and most people will have a gmail account. I opened the .xls in sheets and it seemed to convert fine.
The other was making it so that you don't need to add a % to the end of the linear tech fields, so it treats any whole number as being a percentage out of 100. The difference between Laser weapons 100% and Laser Weapons 100 is... a bit huge.


I tried uploading the newest version to google drive and something happened cuz it stopped working :(

I'll ask to Redrum to make the changes so we can upload it to google drive (His latest addition works fine on Excel/LibreOffice)

Also, In the formulas there is no "%" in the laser guns optimization fields since it is already on the table of optimization fields. I kept changing values and the formulas seemed to work fine, maybe something happened when you uploaded it to google drive?

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 2/12/2021 1:36:10 AM   
redrum68

 

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Here is a google docs version so you don't have to download it or need Excel: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14sPByxRw3TMnvbKX1Ht9tR-VoXH3dZM7i0EIcd5ej_4/edit?usp=sharing

Please test it out and let me know if there are any issues.

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 2/13/2021 12:59:45 PM   
Voker57

 

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Impressive work highlighting lack of such basic features in the game.

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/8/2021 5:54:05 PM   
BlueTemplar


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Works great... but the cost is off : the game gives me 81 Metal and 80 IP for this model :
(That's not *actually* a .txt file )

(Also, for completeness, you're also missing the ammo usage.)

Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/8/2021 6:19:47 PM   
BlueTemplar


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For this Medium Tank the cost matches, Hard HP is only off by one (game says 824),
but you seem to have forgotten the extra Move Redux of -10% for Size 7 (and nearby) units, resulting in total Move Mod of -20% :

Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/8/2021 6:24:33 PM   
BlueTemplar


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In a similar way,
For this Heavy Tank the cost matches, Soft HP is only off by one (game says 454),
but you seem to have forgotten the extra Move Redux of -20% for Size 9 (and nearby) units, resulting in total Move Mod of -20% :

Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/9/2021 10:26:46 AM   
BlueTemplar


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And since it's *still* not in the manual :
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4917963
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Sorry there. There is an undocumented rule...

If size = 6 Or size = 7 Then moveRedux -= 10
If size = 8 Or size = 9 Then moveRedux -= 20
If size = 10 Or size > 10 Then moveRedux -= 30

made note to add this to future manual revision.

Thanks for spotting


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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/20/2021 1:00:25 PM   
GuardsmanGary

 

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This sheet is missing calculations regarding tank destroyers. As you can see in the attached image I've input all the values from Shadow Empire into the design calculator but the soft attack/defense and hard attack/defense are not consistent. This is because the tank destroyer model type has an inherent 50% bonus to hard attack/defense and 50% penalty to soft attack/defense. This effect is most visible if you equip a tank destroyer with a howitzer. If you consult the design log you will you see a "modified for weapon type" entry after the initial attack score calculations are done that shows soft attack and defense being cut in half. This is very odd considering howitzers do not have a soft attack penalty. You'll see a similar entry for hard attack/defense that presents a value that is only 75% of the hard attack/defense value derived from firepower when for howitzers it should be 50%.

Let's take this tank destroyer as an example: 180mm howitzer with 800 base firepower, 53% progress in conventional gun optimization, weapon design score of 84, cluster bombs enabled, and 72% progress in armour piercing optimization. Breaking down the calculations step by step gets you this:
Soft attack/defense:
800 initial firepower for 180mm howitzer
*1.265 conventional gun optimization bonus
*0.84 for weapon design score
*0.5 for tank destroyer soft attack penalty
*1.5 for cluster bombs bonus
637 soft attack
*0.5 infantry defense penalty
318 soft defense

Hard attack/defense
800 initial firepower
*1.265 conventional gun optimization bonus
*0.84 for weapon design
*0.5 for howitzer hard attack penalty
*1.5 for tank destroyer hard attack bonus
*1.36 armour piercing optimization bonus
*0.5 turretless hard attack penalty
434 hard attack
And hard defense is calculated before the turretless penalty is applied, so it's
867 firepower
*0.667 tank defense penalty
578 hard defense

The presence of a 50% penalty to soft attack/defense and a 50% bonus to hard attack/defense explains the discrepancy almost exactly; the difference in the hard defense of 1 being attributable to rounding errors.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by GuardsmanGary -- 3/20/2021 1:04:48 PM >

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/20/2021 3:44:39 PM   
BlueTemplar


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Also, the Assault Gun has another difference with the Medium Tank that is not in this sheet (which might or might not be a bug in the game) : it cannot mount 200mm plating !

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/20/2021 7:02:17 PM   
Clux


Posts: 375
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From: Mexico
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Thanks for the corrections and bug reports guys! I changed the logic of the formulas for tank destroyers, added the mobility penalty due size and removed the 200mm armor option for assault guns until Vic confirms if its intended or not.

PS: You will probably get values wrong by 1 (minus or plus) due how the game rounds off the results

< Message edited by Clux -- 3/20/2021 7:04:41 PM >


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Amateurs talk about strategy. Professionals talk about logistics!

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 10:12:29 AM   
BlueTemplar


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Thank you, but the AP cost penalty is still wrong, you calculator says +70% while it's +80% for my Monitor :
Last Engine Power is listed as 1200, last Weight before Movement Redux is listed as 1660, and not 1510 like in the Calculator.
With 1660 manually input I *do* get +80%.

I don't know how you managed to figure out the math :
This ends up with a 72.2% Weight / Engine Power ratio, which *should* lead to a +30% move cost modifier
(see manual p.328 - I *think* that I'm interpreting the brackets correctly ??),
with then the 11 Monitor size adding an extra +30% on top of that,
for a total of +60%, and not +80% ??




Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 10:13:40 AM   
BlueTemplar


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Calculator :

Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 10:15:14 AM   
BlueTemplar


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Design Log 1/3 :




Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 10:16:30 AM   
BlueTemplar


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Design Log 2/3 :





Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 10:17:42 AM   
BlueTemplar


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Design Log 3/3 :





Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 10:20:24 AM   
BlueTemplar


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Design tab :





Attachment (1)

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 10:21:12 AM   
BlueTemplar


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Tech tab :




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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 10:25:35 AM   
BlueTemplar


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P.S.: Also, I got a non-working spreadsheet with REF# errors when I tried to download it as .ods.

So I could only save it as .xlsx. Which as you might know is a bad format.

So in the future, could you please avoid the evil Microsoft (and Google) software, and *especially* their ****ty "Web" versions ? Thank you.

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 12:06:35 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

So I could only save it as .xlsx. Which as you might know is a bad format.

xls is a propeitary format from microsoft. It is indeed a rather bad format.

xlsx is a open format from microsoft, that uses the same "XML Files in a renamed ZIP container with public specifications" approach that ODS does. It is not a bad format.

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 2:03:06 PM   
BlueTemplar


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It's bad too : AFAIK Microsoft just took most of the xls format and computer-generated mostly unreadable documentation based on it.

So it's "open" a bit like the demolition plans for Arthur Dent's house were "on display" :
quote:

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

(the "locked" bit aside, maybe)

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 3/21/2021 2:05:26 PM >

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 6:20:59 PM   
Clux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Thank you, but the AP cost penalty is still wrong, you calculator says +70% while it's +80% for my Monitor :
Last Engine Power is listed as 1200, last Weight before Movement Redux is listed as 1660, and not 1510 like in the Calculator.
With 1660 manually input I *do* get +80%.

I don't know how you managed to figure out the math :
This ends up with a 72.2% Weight / Engine Power ratio, which *should* lead to a +30% move cost modifier
(see manual p.328 - I *think* that I'm interpreting the brackets correctly ??),
with then the 11 Monitor size adding an extra +30% on top of that,
for a total of +60%, and not +80% ??



Thanks for reporting it! the issue was than the monitor class has different armor values than heavy/TD class (my bad for not seeing it earlier). I added a new table which has the correct values for weight and material costs.

About your complains from using that format, well, Excel/google sheets/libreoffice are the only applications of their kind that I know how to use it, I don't mind trying to export it to another format, but since you said than any of their sub-formats are still bad for you I don't know which one would sit your better, and even then, as I told you, since I don't know other apps maybe I can't figure out why the calculator stops working.

Cheers!

PS: The link its for the web-version but its done that way since otherwise I can't upload it to the forums and I wouldn't like to upload it to other cloud service like mediafire/mega. You don't need to use the web version to use the calculator, you can download the file :)

< Message edited by Clux -- 3/21/2021 6:24:58 PM >


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Amateurs talk about strategy. Professionals talk about logistics!

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/21/2021 8:01:39 PM   
BlueTemplar


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.ods is the Libre Office format, and I'm totally fine with it !

Cloud hosting is best done yourself, using solutions like Nextcloud, and I think that many companies provide complete home server solutions, for a reasonable price if you don't want to set it up yourself ? You'll probably still need an offsite backup (house fire...), and cheap non-GAFAM solutions exist for that too.

----

Thank you for fixing it so quickly !

Oh and there's another discrepancy that I forgot about :
In addition for the cost for the Light Tank above (still) being wrong,
the final cost for that Terrorizer is 209 Metal, 192 IP, 5 Machines while the calculator shows 191 Metal, 180 IP, 5 Machines.

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Post #: 27
RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/22/2021 1:27:56 PM   
Sieppo


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This is actually great, thank you!

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/22/2021 4:31:44 PM   
BlueTemplar


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Also, while this isn't working yet, I think that "Fuel Mix Optimization" should instead be "Fuel Efficiency" ?

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RE: Tank Design Calculator - 3/22/2021 4:42:23 PM   
BlueTemplar


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When mounting a 400mm armour, the 4 first item costs end up as #N/A.

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