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Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/9/2021 12:38:48 PM   
stockwellpete

 

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I have switched to playing as Entente in SP now and I have already noticed that it is very easy to occupy this hex (at 183,79) with my Russian cavalry. The CP AI does not try to defend it, but once it is lost it quickly moves to take it back again. However, it has lost some MPP's and possibly some NM as well because of its temporary loss. I am not sure how much, but the mine starts the game at 12 MPP and is only at 3 MPP when the AI recaptures it.

This might be worth a tweak, I am not sure.
Post #: 1
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/11/2021 6:41:10 AM   
shri

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 7/20/2017
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AI is bad at playing, i guess that's why PBEM is encouraged. Also why AI needs to be set at highest levels to get the fun.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 2
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/11/2021 8:37:29 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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Joined: 12/20/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shri

AI is bad at playing, i guess that's why PBEM is encouraged. Also why AI needs to be set at highest levels to get the fun.


I expect that most people who play this game play SP. A minority play MP, but they tend to be more vocal on the forum.

I think the AI is not too bad at all, although there are some things that stand out like a sore thumb once you have played a few games. Some of these are quite easy to correct and I have suggested a number of them since Xmas. The AI defending the Kattowitz mine properly is a straightforward fix, I believe. Others are more difficult, but it is possible to handicap yourself against the AI by not taking advantage of certain things. Two examples of this are - not baiting and sinking UK destroyers and light cruisers in the first few turns of the game every time in order to give your submarines a better chance in 1914/5; and making sure that when you "operate" units that they finish on a railway line hex and do not move off onto terrain that turn. It is also fairly easy to mod things in the Editor by just changing some of the values in the various boxes.

As a result of doing all this I usually end up with a very interesting game against the AI.

(in reply to shri)
Post #: 3
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/11/2021 2:26:09 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 4949
Joined: 7/22/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

I have switched to playing as Entente in SP now and I have already noticed that it is very easy to occupy this hex (at 183,79) with my Russian cavalry. The CP AI does not try to defend it, but once it is lost it quickly moves to take it back again. However, it has lost some MPP's and possibly some NM as well because of its temporary loss. I am not sure how much, but the mine starts the game at 12 MPP and is only at 3 MPP when the AI recaptures it.

This might be worth a tweak, I am not sure.


Thanks I've made an adjustment for this for tne next build including a few others that should hopefully improve the AI a bit going forward.


_____________________________


(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 4
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/11/2021 4:03:16 PM   
stockwellpete

 

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Joined: 12/20/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Thanks I've made an adjustment for this for tne next build including a few others that should hopefully improve the AI a bit going forward.



OK, that's great.

(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 5
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/11/2021 4:50:12 PM   
Bavre

 

Posts: 208
Joined: 12/5/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete


quote:

ORIGINAL: shri

AI is bad at playing, i guess that's why PBEM is encouraged. Also why AI needs to be set at highest levels to get the fun.


I expect that most people who play this game play SP. A minority play MP, but they tend to be more vocal on the forum.

I think the AI is not too bad at all, although there are some things that stand out like a sore thumb once you have played a few games. Some of these are quite easy to correct and I have suggested a number of them since Xmas. The AI defending the Kattowitz mine properly is a straightforward fix, I believe. Others are more difficult, but it is possible to handicap yourself against the AI by not taking advantage of certain things. Two examples of this are - not baiting and sinking UK destroyers and light cruisers in the first few turns of the game every time in order to give your submarines a better chance in 1914/5; and making sure that when you "operate" units that they finish on a railway line hex and do not move off onto terrain that turn. It is also fairly easy to mod things in the Editor by just changing some of the values in the various boxes.

As a result of doing all this I usually end up with a very interesting game against the AI.


I have to agree that the AI is overall very solid. There is the occasional easily preventable bad move, but most of its shortcomings are things that currently no AI could do. Of course after a view MP matches, especially vs stronger opponents, the AI can't do more than delay you, but that can't be helped. On the bright side our end at the hand of skynet still seems to be some way off.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 6
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/12/2021 4:08:32 AM   
shri

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 7/20/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete


quote:

ORIGINAL: shri

AI is bad at playing, i guess that's why PBEM is encouraged. Also why AI needs to be set at highest levels to get the fun.


I expect that most people who play this game play SP. A minority play MP, but they tend to be more vocal on the forum.

I think the AI is not too bad at all, although there are some things that stand out like a sore thumb once you have played a few games. Some of these are quite easy to correct and I have suggested a number of them since Xmas. The AI defending the Kattowitz mine properly is a straightforward fix, I believe. Others are more difficult, but it is possible to handicap yourself against the AI by not taking advantage of certain things. Two examples of this are - not baiting and sinking UK destroyers and light cruisers in the first few turns of the game every time in order to give your submarines a better chance in 1914/5; and making sure that when you "operate" units that they finish on a railway line hex and do not move off onto terrain that turn. It is also fairly easy to mod things in the Editor by just changing some of the values in the various boxes.

As a result of doing all this I usually end up with a very interesting game against the AI.


The AI frankly sucks at the Naval game, it's easy to bait it using mines, kill all the cruisers and destroyers and rinse-repeat so much so that the English channel gets contested. This is why i stopped playing SP.

Why i did this? because any legit player will do it. (Someone on this forum did this to me with devastating results in a PBEM, though he also had terrible losses, they were lesser than mine).

(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 7
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/12/2021 4:10:09 AM   
shri

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 7/20/2017
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Secondly, as the Entente, the Russians can pull a Napoleonic war types Russian deep Cavalry penetration that destroys the AI morale. making a total mockery of the Eastern front.

Again why? Because a legit player can and will do it.
P.S.: I pulled it off on a player in my 2nd PBEM match (we both were rank amateurs).

(in reply to shri)
Post #: 8
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/12/2021 8:49:16 AM   
stockwellpete

 

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/20/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shri

The AI frankly sucks at the Naval game, it's easy to bait it using mines, kill all the cruisers and destroyers and rinse-repeat so much so that the English channel gets contested. This is why i stopped playing SP.

Why i did this? because any legit player will do it. (Someone on this forum did this to me with devastating results in a PBEM, though he also had terrible losses, they were lesser than mine).


But what I am saying is that once I know how to trick or beat the AI in a certain way I don't continue to do it in subsequent games. For example, I know how to destroy 4 or 5 Entente light cruisers and destroyers in 1914 by baiting them with my submarines, so now I don't do it and I send my submarines up north very quickly. I also don't use my Russian cavalry to encircle German units in East Prussia because the AI is a bit slow to mobilise defensively and will quickly be in big trouble. I do not sell Tech at the start of a game and I am testing now the impact of having operational moves starting and ending on a railway hex (no mod needed for this, just a house-rule for myself). I could, if I wanted to, change the deployment of Russian units on the Eastern Front by making a few simple changes in my mod. In this way the AI remains a challenge to me and I can learn more about later phases of the war using SP.

Obviously there is a big gap between playing against the AI and playing against a human player. The AI cannot have imagination or the ability to gamble. But it can still give you many hours of entertainment at a lower standard of play if you are a bit creative with how you play against it. The big issue for me now is late-game MPP "bloat" for the Entente.

(in reply to shri)
Post #: 9
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/14/2021 8:33:22 AM   
shri

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 7/20/2017
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Russia has too many MPP and can entrench to level 4/5/6, both of which are totally a-historical.

IRL, Russian trenches were mostly single file, with occasional double files due to the long length and only certain strong points had triple file, reserves were present of-course in plenty but Russia had a huge shortage of Guns (due to all these guns being kept under fortresses spread over Baltics and Poland) and Rifles and Ammo (due to lack of production facilities, sabotage etc.)


(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 10
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/14/2021 8:07:48 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4049
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: shri


quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete


quote:

ORIGINAL: shri

AI is bad at playing, i guess that's why PBEM is encouraged. Also why AI needs to be set at highest levels to get the fun.


I expect that most people who play this game play SP. A minority play MP, but they tend to be more vocal on the forum.

I think the AI is not too bad at all, although there are some things that stand out like a sore thumb once you have played a few games. Some of these are quite easy to correct and I have suggested a number of them since Xmas. The AI defending the Kattowitz mine properly is a straightforward fix, I believe. Others are more difficult, but it is possible to handicap yourself against the AI by not taking advantage of certain things. Two examples of this are - not baiting and sinking UK destroyers and light cruisers in the first few turns of the game every time in order to give your submarines a better chance in 1914/5; and making sure that when you "operate" units that they finish on a railway line hex and do not move off onto terrain that turn. It is also fairly easy to mod things in the Editor by just changing some of the values in the various boxes.

As a result of doing all this I usually end up with a very interesting game against the AI.


The AI frankly sucks at the Naval game, it's easy to bait it using mines, kill all the cruisers and destroyers and rinse-repeat so much so that the English channel gets contested. This is why i stopped playing SP.

Why i did this? because any legit player will do it. (Someone on this forum did this to me with devastating results in a PBEM, though he also had terrible losses, they were lesser than mine).


Yeah the problem is the auto pathing is not programmed to go around mines but straight through them...The AI pathing will also go next to enemy ports and if there is a ship there will get surprise attacked...

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 2/14/2021 9:55:30 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to shri)
Post #: 11
RE: Kattowitz mine hex . . . - 2/14/2021 8:35:13 PM   
Tendraline

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 9/28/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shri

Secondly, as the Entente, the Russians can pull a Napoleonic war types Russian deep Cavalry penetration that destroys the AI morale. making a total mockery of the Eastern front.

Again why? Because a legit player can and will do it.
P.S.: I pulled it off on a player in my 2nd PBEM match (we both were rank amateurs).


No true scotsman. I have no idea what a "deep cavalry penetration" to "destroy the AI morale" actually means. In my hours of experimenting, such a thought hasn't even crossed my mind. You desperate need to elaborate.

But to be fair, the AI does not just leave Kattowitz but also Oppeln. Typically, I am able to take the town with cavalry, which then turns south of Krakow to cut off the city's rail, at which point I can take it with the rest of my forces.

(in reply to shri)
Post #: 12
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